New to the game - When should I stop playing Co-op vs AI?

Grymmstrike·Oct 14, 2014·2 votes·8,238 views

Basically, I started playing last week, and I am currently level 8 summoner. I have only played Co-op vs AI (With the exception of one "Custom" game that I couldn't figure out how to add bots to, so it ended up being me versus no one). I am currently 29-2 in Co-op games (I'm not carrying them most of the time) between Beginner and Intermediate (And a couple of Intro level matches). I have found several champions that I seem to "click" with (Annie, Renekton, Gangplank, Kha'zix, Warwick, maybe others) and have figured out a good progression shopping list that suits me fairly well. I am very reliant on getting off to a good start, if I can hold a lane for a few minutes without having to pull back until I've made ~2-2.5k gold then I can do quite well, especially with Gangplank. If I get pushed out of a lane or gasp die early, then it spirals into me not being able to keep up. I am pretty good with last hitting with Gangplank and Annie. Other champions, not as good. Also, it depends on if I get left alone in a lane or if I have another player "helping" me by killing everything :P

With all of that being said, is there a specific point at which I should stop playing Co-op vs AI, and start actually playing against other players? Should I wait until 20+ when I can unlock better runes so I have less of a disadvantage? Should I be playing PVP now?

26 Comments

FarRockBFOct 14, 20147 votes

Once you can beat Intermediate bots comfortably move into normals. Don't be discouraged if you lose a few matches though. There are smurfers everywhere.

And don't buy ANY runes until you are lvl 20+ and already have a decent champion pool (3-6 champs you enjoy playing).

GrymmstrikeOct 14, 20141 votes

How far will Gangplank take me, and how legitimate of a shopping list is:

item 1036 Longsword (360) item 3077 Tiamat (1540) item 3074 Ravenous Hydra (1400) item 3093 Avarice Blade (800) item 3086 Zeal (1100) item 3078 Trinity Force (2603) item 3154 Wriggle's Lantern (1800) item 3006 Berserker's Greaves - Furor (1425) Trinity Force (3703)

Total = 13,731g

The only change I had thought about making to that list was waiting to get item 3093 Avarice Blade first instead of building my item 3074 Ravenous Hydra first. Any thoughts?

ValyrianBladeOct 14, 20143 votes

Drop wriggles Lantern unless you're jungling... Otherwise items seem okay. You'll replace wriggles with a defensive item.

GP is a good champion, but if you're looking to go ranked at 30 you'll need to play a variety due to Draft mode. You won't always get top Lane. You won't always get your preferred champ.

There's no harm whatsoever in trying pvp once you're comfortable with a champion. I did pvp immediately after my first coop vs ai intermediate win, and was fine. You're matched based on your mmr rating, so you'll likely be against similar skill level players unless you hit a smurf. I'd advise you to try every Lane at low levels in pvp, to this day I can't top Lane for my life because I didn't try it until around level 18 (I lose Lane every time top, but am fine cs wise and good at teamfight thankfully), and so whenever I play top my opponent is way more experienced than me at the matchup.

I think I started pvp around level 6, and went back to ai frequently to try new champs (check out interesting ones when they're free). You learn a lot faster in pvp and it's more exciting.

OhBoyItsaMegamanOct 14, 20142 votes

Don't buy Wriggles Lantern if you're not jungling. Minions and Monsters are two different things. You do not want to pick up an item that counts your number of large monster kills if you are not jungling.

And usually it is better to begin with a Doran's Blade than a long sword, because the little bit of extra health at the start makes you less vulnerable to an all-in. Especially when you start laning against people who have Ignite, which makes all-ins easier.

Is the double Trinity Force a typo? You don't want 2 of the same item if it has a Unique ability.

MilleaOct 14, 20144 votes

These are generally good items, but they could be improved.

I would, for Gangplank , start with item 1054 and a health pot, get your item 1001 relatively early, and maybe building them into item 3111 or item 3047 for some tankiness, as you don't really use attack speed on him.

Secondly, item 3078 is mainly useful for its two unique passives, rather than its stats, which don't stack. Never build two of them. I would build an item 3031 instead of one, as your Q crit does amazing amounts of damage especially with the unique passive that increases your critical strike damage.

Also, I would, as ValyrianBlade says, not build item 3154 unless you're playing jungle. Its main benefit is the transformation into feral flare, which you will not use unless you're in the jungle a lot. Replace this with a defensive/health item of your choice.

You should probably build your item 3093 into a item 3087 as well; Statikk Shiv is amazing on Gangplank due to its burst damage and synergy with your Q poke, similar to the item 3078 and item 3031 . With these three items, you will be doing more than half the health of most squishy targets in the lategame with a single Q.

Going item 3093 before item 3074 or vice versa is definitely viable and more up to personal preference.

GrymmstrikeOct 15, 20142 votes

Well, I guess I am completely misunderstanding how to play, because I thought attack speed helped with basic attacks, and since that is what I am doing 90% of the time with GP items with attack speed would be of benefit.

I have yet to reach end game in a match with GP, usually matches are over by the time I hit 14-15. I have built the Statikk Shiv once, but it kills my gold production, so it would only be viable as my last purchase. Also, the tooltip says basic attacks release the energy, so how does it synergyze with my Q (Parrrley, right?) The one time I got it, I never got to use it because we won before I left the shop. How fast do the charges build up? Overall it seems like a potentially useful item, but would have to be gotten as your final item to avoid killing your gold income.

You say that the Trinity Force is mainly useful for the passives, but I thought the other stats stacked? Health, mana, movement speed, attack speed, critical strike, and it adds physical and magical damage (Unless tooltip in-game, GP's ultimate uses AP not AD for damage. At least that's what it showed on my screen, and I even asked someone about it in a game.) So a second one seemed like a good idea. Still does, tbh, although I can see the argumemt for 80 attack damage and a lot of crit.

As far as starting out, I chose the Long Sword because it's something that builds into the thing I need, whereas the shield and Dorian's blade do not.

MilleaOct 15, 20144 votes

Well, I guess I am completely misunderstanding how to play, because I thought attack speed helped with basic attacks, and since that is what I am doing 90% of the time with GP items with attack speed would be of benefit.

Although you are basic attacking, most of the time your damage to enemy champions comes from your Q.

I have yet to reach end game in a match with GP, usually matches are over by the time I hit 14-15. I have built the Statikk Shiv once, but it kills my gold production, so it would only be viable as my last purchase.

Keep in mind that Avarice Blade increases your gold production only by about 5% at most in most cases, not too significant of a difference

Also, the tooltip says basic attacks release the energy, so how does it synergyze with my Q (Parrrley, right?)

Parrrley counts as a basic attack for the purposes of items, including this, ravenous hydra, and even Sheen (And therefore triforce's too). It also can critically strike, just like a basic attack (Whereas most spells cannot). Its cooldown however is reduced by cooldown reduction, not by attack speed.

The one time I got it, I never got to use it because we won before I left the shop. How fast do the charges build up?

It only takes about 10 seconds to get from 0 to 100%. In addition, this item's active crits whenever you crit with the attack that triggers it, making it a lot better than it sounds.

You say that the Trinity Force is mainly useful for the passives, but I thought the other stats stacked? Health, mana, movement speed, attack speed, critical strike, and it adds physical and magical damage (Unless tooltip in-game,

For the trinity force, the ability power, attack damage, attack speed, crit chance, health, and mana stack.

However, as both the "Spellblade" passive and "Rage" passive are labeled "Unique", they do not stack, which reduces the effectiveness of the item greatly.

Ability power in low numbers isn't too useful for gangplank, even though his ultimate and his oranges scale off of it, as he still won't be using them too much.

GP's ultimate uses AP not AD for damage. At least that's what it showed on my screen, and I even asked someone about it in a game.)

30 extra ability power will increase his ultimate damage by less than 5 per second, a negligible amount.

80 attack damage and 25% crit chance is comparable to the trinity force on its own. However, the main strength of the Infinity Edge is its Unique Passive, which increases damage dealt by your crits from 200% to 250%. Essentially, this means that if you have 300 attack damage and are level 15, an achievable number, if you had a trinity force AND an infinity edge, a Parrrley would do:

300+ (200% base AD from spellblade) 198 =498 if it does not crit (35% chance of critting) and

300*2.5 (from crit)+198= 948 damage if it DOES crit.

This is an average of 655.5 damage from your Parrley

However, if you had two trinity forces a parrrley would do:

250 (50 less ad from building trinity force instead of IE) +198=448 if it does not crit (20% chance)

250*2+198=698 if it does crit.

This is 498 average damage from your Parrley.

That's a difference of 157 damage on average per shot, which is HUGE.

There are all the other bonuses, but they nowhere near add up to the benefit of an item with a unique passive, as you can probably see through the math.

This applies to a lot of other items too. Generally, unique passives are what makes each item worth it.

As far as starting out, I chose the Long Sword because it's something that builds into the thing I need, whereas the shield and Dorian's blade do not.

This makes sense. However, Doran's Shield and Doran's Blade are much, much more cost efficient than a longsword. They usually help you stay in lane longer, which can lead to a lot more gold, especially as Gangplank, who either needs to get into melee range to get creeps and take harass, or start to run out of mana. They are also useful throughout the midgame.

MasticatingGrillOct 17, 20141 votes

How far will Gangplank take me, and how legitimate of a shopping list is:

Longsword (360) Tiamat (1540) Ravenous Hydra (1400) Avarice Blade (800) Zeal (1100) Trinity Force (2603) Wriggle's Lantern (1800) Berserker's Greaves - Furor (1425) Trinity Force (3703)

Total = 13,731g

The only change I had thought about making to that list was waiting to get Avarice Blade first instead of building my Ravenous Hydra first. Any thoughts?

Okay I can hardly even. GP can farm decent with his melee but he is a caster as far as PVP should go. If you are not a jungler NEVER build Wriggle's Lantern. The reason so many champs rush Shiv is for the CS (multi hit charges) and the crit. The reason so many champs rush Triforce is because it gives them EVERYTHING. (health, mana, speed, crit, damage buff on auto after cast...etc)

I see double Rod of Ages on some champs, and double Zhonyas or such on others. But I don't usually see double Triforce except once recently on a Xerath that intentionally fed all game. Hydra is decent damage and good melee farm, but not crit buff and not a great caster item.

Look into "Critplank", I have seen this bugger "Parrley" more than 1500HP off a champion in one hit.

WorgslargOct 14, 20143 votes

Personally, I reccomend playing normals as soon as you have basic control and movement mechanics. I would also reccomend that you learn league on an unlocked camera, and all abilities quick-cast. if you wait to level 20 to start pvp. I can promise you that you will lose your lane, for the first 20 + games in pvp, and lost most of the games aswell.

OhBoyItsaMegamanOct 14, 20141 votes

I agree. Once you are comfortable using abilities and can purchase items without having to read the shop for 30 seconds, go ahead and move on to PvP.

GrymmstrikeOct 15, 20142 votes

Problem I see with PVP is that they don't separate based on summoner level, so me with zero runes and only 8 points in masteries gets pitted against level 30s with full runes and masteries.

MilleaOct 15, 20141 votes

You aren't getting placed against all level 30s though. These are only level 30s who are playing with friends who are new to the game or on smurfs (who ruin the matchmaking system anyways).

Besides, there's no way to get better other than playing and losing your first fifty or so games! At least you'll have experience.

EleshakaiOct 14, 20142 votes

It really depends on your goal... if you're aiming to get into ranked... then as soon as possible. You want as much normal experience(and ideally normal draft experience) as possible as soon as possible.

If you're just playing to have fun, then it really doesn't matter. Play whatever seems fun to you.

Dr Clueless PhDOct 14, 20142 votes

I agree that, once you can beat Intermediate bots regularly, stop playing them. What'll end up happening is that you will teach yourself horrible habits playing against the bots, and you won't learn any of the REAL basics of LoL. Most of the time in bot games, people don't play anything like how real games go. If you play bot games all the way to level 20 or even 30, you're gonna have a real bad time hopping into PVP.

I suggest looking into how PVP games are typically played, to see how they differ from bot games, before jumping in. However, if you'd prefer to learn by experience, that's fine, too. Just be prepared to learn.

12talesOct 14, 20141 votes

What'll end up happening is that you will teach yourself horrible habits playing against the bots, and you won't learn any of the REAL basics of LoL.

Disagree. I played bot games to level 30, and there was pretty much no adjustment period transitioning to PvP. The only thing I had to get used to was managing a losing lane - other than that, the gameplay is pretty much identical.

Aids cuz LeagueOct 14, 20142 votes

You can't disagree with the truth, it's fact that if I were to play with someone who did a lot more PvP, I would have a better chance at winning my game and having a good time in my game with someone who knew a lot more of how LoL works. I stopped doing ranked when I got placed in Bronze cause I didn't believe it was going to be that bad, I got into games where people said map awareness doesn't matter til team fights. Then I had a riven say I fed soraka mid, when soraka went adc soraka and I had ezreal mid and the game lasted 39 minutes. For 39 minutes she didn't pay attention, and she wasn't trolling either, she was legitimately serious. I get angry because of the sheer intelligence of the community is so low right now, even in Normal games, the only game mode I have fun in right now is bots, because I rarely have to rely on people. And that's the bad habit you learn, when in a PvP game, you NEED to rely on people to do good, in order to win, playing bots the whole way through will completely ruin your chances for success, regardless if its fun or not. I had 300 normal wins in Season 3 before I tried ranked Duo Queve'd with a friend who had 100 or so wins. We stopped playing it, because nobody knew what was going on. Came back Season 4 Solo Queve, all my ranked games I got people who blamed me for not warding when the entire jungle was warded, lane was warded, I was so dedicated to vision that I stopped relying on sightstone, I had the gold to keep buying actual Wards. With Bots, they need to make an XP cap, where you no longer get XP to level, so it forces you into PvP. You can still practice new champs, learn their abilities, but you won't level off it.

Aids cuz LeagueOct 14, 20141 votes

Also, having the mindset of "I can carry my team to victory" is what gets people losses. You get overconfident, start making stupid decisions off getting a few kills, before you know it, we're losing because only that person earned a good amount of gold, and nobody can 1v5 unless playing it out, EXTREMELY carefully. But the lower ranks/normal players of LoL can not do 1v5 so I wish people would stop trying.

DrukyulOct 15, 20142 votes

Try out the 3v3 AI in Twisted Treeline. Those bots can get out of control pretty easily. I always found it a bit more of a challenge than the 5v5 bots.

Gandr AdderbaneOct 15, 20142 votes

You'll want to learn several champions before doing PvP, you never know what role you'll have and it's not like in bots where you can do virtually any setup and have a good shot at winning. Also, unlocking flash helps a lot, as it is the most popular summoner spell in the game. Once you feel you can easily beat the Intermediate bots, you are ready for PvP. Look around online, there are a lot of useful guides for what items are good on champions, and what order to chose skills. They're invaluable while learning the game. Also, when you do start PvP, expect to come back with a lot less gold your first time. Humans are a lot more aggressive than bots, so you'll run out of health faster. Figuring out what pieces of items to pick up when you're forced back is a big part of the game.

12talesOct 14, 20141 votes

I'd suggest waiting at least 'till level 12 for solo lanes, since that's when you get Flash. Level 20 for Jungle or Duo Lane roles, since runes are much more important.

FarRockBFOct 14, 20141 votes

Since Gangplank has two nice bonuses with Critical Strikes, its nice to get the two best Critical Strike items at some point:

item 3087 item 3031

MonogueOct 14, 20141 votes

Never, in my opinion.

Only reason why I still play against bots is try warming-up for normals or getting use to and learning a new champion.

For example, I was scared to play Udyr in normals, because many would rage or discourage me to play. And now the result of play 2 - 6 games of bots of Udyr, I can now officially call my self a Godyr.

101100111000Oct 14, 20141 votes

When you can 2 v 1 top lane bots. Go to normals.

Magma Lux MidOct 15, 20141 votes

I say go normals when you feel you are ready. AI doesn't give you a good feel for how to actually play the game.

Earl EulrichOct 15, 20141 votes

You can stop it at any time, just try out sth. else and see if you have fun.

In general I´d say if you are able to beat intermediate bots 1v5 you´re at least gold skillwise and should maybe move on to PvP.

MerxamersOct 17, 20141 votes

follow up note; it is perfectly viable to start item 1036 . the reason many people get a dorans item such as item 1054 or item 1055 is for an early game advantage, at the sacrifice of early build paths. For the top lane, i usually start with a dorans item, but it all comes down to experience and personal preference.