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Why I as a support don't get sight stone anymore

Zerana·5/15/2015, 8:23:28 PM·4 votes·3,291 views

is worth 800 gold for the 150 health and the ward passive but the stats are worth only about 650 gold (maybe even less) and here's why.

At level 9 I can pay 250 gold for a recharging stealth totem item and place my ward limit on the map most of the time as well.

If this passive (a superior one no less) is worth 250 gold then the is no longer gold efficient.

I am over paying 150 gold for bonus health when I could have used that slot for say more ap? or any other superior stat?

And before you say "well just pay 250 gold for instead and ward clear and then buy "

First that's the Junglers job. His job is to ward clear the buffs because that's the whole point of smite and that includes the dragon and baron buffs.

Secondly I'm still overpaying for the trinket passive (an inferior one) on the . I am also overpaying for in the process (remember that oracles passive lasted 4 mins originally for 400 gold) I get a passive to scout for wards for 10 seconds. if it was longer or I could reduce cool downs it would make sense but the utility is not worth the cost or the opportunity cost.

An opportunity cost is what you could have purchased for the same amount of money and the opportunity cost in this case is one extra ward on the map as well as extra damage and healing depending on the champion. The slot efficiency is not worth the cost.

Assuming that the whole team got this upgrade excluding the Jungler, you could have as many as 12 wards on the map at once.

So for the love of God upgrade the trinket.

28 Comments

Phife5/15/2015, 8:24:42 PM9 votes

#staybronze

You need sightstone because the enemy doesn't stay in the same area as your wards, If you upgrade yellow trink... great! thats more wards on the map per person, but if you dont get sightstone and a sweeper you just lost your team the vision game.

If you put down your measly two wards from a yellow trinket and the enemy isn't near those two wards, you're fucked.

Drunk Rummate5/15/2015, 8:28:32 PM4 votes

Trinket upgrades are not an excuse to skip sightstone as a support for two main reasons.

Delaying your vision until level 9 is going to really hurt in lane phase. As a duo lane support you are generally under-leveled so this comes much later than you'd expect, especially if you roam at all. Sure you can buy stealth wards, but if you buy 3 stealth wards and upgrade your totem at 9 then you've already spent more than you would have with just a sightstone considering the ruby crystal is 400.
Upgraded yellow trinket means you don't get a sweeper (red trinket). Denying vision is just as important as acquiring it.

Yes, solo laners should be upgrading their trinkets at level 9 or shortly after. Junglers should be grabbing a sweeping totem most of the time to help you with clearing wards. But that's not an excuse to skip sightstone. It's really important to have one on your team.

Krigjer5/15/2015, 8:55:46 PM2 votes

Sometimes I want agree and respond to this with 'If more people would upgrade their trinket there would be no need to buy sightstone.'

Then I remember how invaluable having the sweeper is. Why can't the support AND the jungler get sweeper? Twice the clearing power!

So sightstone + sweeper all the way.

Dr Poro5/15/2015, 9:00:39 PM1 votes

Not sure if trolling or dense as fuck...

First. What do you mean an extra ward? You can have 3 wards on the field with item 2049 since season 4. Secondly, clearing wards is jungler's job? It's your team's job to win. If clearing wards makes you win (and it does) then 2 people doing so is better than 1. There are usually 3-4 people in the end game with item 3364 because it's just so important to deny enemy vision. In lower ELOs where people seem to place less wards, having 2 (or even 1 if jungler prefers to place wards) of them is probably enough. But please... Don't ever skip sightstone to get the ward trinket as support...

The sightstone effect costs 150g more than the item 3361 but you can only have one trinket and if you compare item 3364 with , is actually the better one. (in high ELO, I guess they are of a rather similar value in silver). Also, the sightstone effect is better because you can place 3 wards in a shorter duration of time which is important during teamfights (warding whene nemies enter brushes so your team can still target them) or for objective control (when the enemy keeps clearing wards).

About the slot efficiency... You won't be getting full build that fast as support. If you are, you're probably farming too much instead of roaming, not buying enough pink wards or winning so hard it doesn't matter what items you have anymore.

Zerana5/15/2015, 10:21:27 PM1 votes

So everyone's response to purchasing the sight stone is that its more spammable even though EVERYONE is supposed to get the trinket upgrade anyway? So your saying waste as many charges as possible and hope you get lucky? If I need vision for escaping enemies then that's what {{summoner:2}} is for. Sadly no one lets me get it anymore without whining. As for not getting wards until level 9, How stupid do you think I am? I buy wards before level 9 and wait until then for the trinket upgrade.

Commit Sudoku5/15/2015, 11:16:07 PM1 votes

have fun in bronze

Lugg5/15/2015, 11:30:48 PM1 votes

As a support you are expected to get sightstone and sweeper. Your role is to provide and deny vision for your team. The jungler should also have SS and a sweeper. As a general rule, you handle the bottom of the map, he handles the top. If you don't want to do this, you are not helping your team win.

Zerana5/16/2015, 12:02:45 AM1 votes

I'm Playing support not "make up for everyone else's stupidity"

Jyoi5/16/2015, 12:50:57 AM1 votes

Uhh... please buy sightstone. Period.

SaltyToplaneGoat5/16/2015, 12:54:14 AM1 votes

How to win as support:

1.) buy wards manually until level nine, UNLESS you are a tank support who needs hp. Then go sightstone

2.) talk with your adc. If the lane goes good he can also spend 75-150 gold. Extra 1-2 wards don't hurt and might save your ass at some point.

3.) Get trinket at level 9 and tell everyone else in the team who runs yellow to do the same. Warding teamwork > better than every sightstone.

Linna Excel5/16/2015, 12:54:18 AM1 votes

Let me know how that works for you when and if you get out of bronze. There are some champs I might not rush a sightstone on (I'll grab greens), but you still need to get one as a support. Plus I like getting the pink trinket.

Zerana5/16/2015, 8:26:03 PM1 votes

I don't play ranked enough to care it's pointless. I just hate how people like to justify not warding by saying their role has no time to get a 250 gold sight stone at level 9 and ward the side lanes even though at least half their deaths will be because they did not.

50000000000000005/15/2015, 8:27:37 PM1 votes

Upgrading trinket is important, yes. But sightstone is worth it, especially since you can get item 3362 or item 3364 .

Ice Weasel X5/15/2015, 8:51:02 PM1 votes

{quoted}

At level 9 I can pay 250 gold for a recharging stealth totem item and place my ward limit on the map most of the time as well.

Merely reaching ward limit is not enough. When you're at your ward limit, you don't wait for your first to expire before placing another. That's counterproductive. You pump out wards where they're needed, which is often more frequently than an upgraded trinket can match.

If this passive (a superior one no less) is worth 250 gold then the is no longer gold efficient.

The Sightstone is gold efficient if you are using it as liberally as you are supposed to use it.

I am over paying 150 gold for bonus health when I could have used that slot for say more ap? or any other superior stat?

No, you're paying more gold for more spammable wards. The HP is just a nice incidental addition. Even though you have to actively recharge it instead of waiting for a timer, you get more out of it on demand. You know how there's a difference between burst damage and sustained damage? This is similar. Sightstone allows you a burst of 3 wards so you can get max coverage immediately (such as when you're preparing to take Dragon or Baron). You have more than your limit, so you can deal with having a ward destroyed or you can choose to reposition. The Greater Stealth Totem only stores 2, so you can't immediately place your limit of wards all at once.

And before you say "well just pay 250 gold for instead and ward clear and then buy "

First that's the Junglers job. His job is to ward clear the buffs because that's the whole point of smite and that includes the dragon and baron buffs.

No. This is just as bad as "warding is the support's job." Neglecting your responsibility because someone else shares it is selfish and ignorant. The support's job is to support the team's efforts. Providing the majority of vision is one of the primary goals. Denying enemy vision is part of the vision war. This is even easier if the opposing support is using only a Greater Stealth Totem instead of a Sightstone.

Being able to place and replace 4 wards per Sightstone refill, regardless of time passed makes the Sightstone more powerful as a vision tool than the Greater Stealth Totem.