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TeemoJenkins4 votes

Ya, why not? I've seen teams do Leo top and have a carry jungle. Works out great.

IlyaK19864 votes

No passive, no sustain, no damage in the kit, restrictive mana costs, anything else you want?

WiegrafOfValor4 votes

If I can win a 1v1 against a adc when I'm playing her as a support I think I have a chance against a melee non-burst champ on top, besides, how someone tower dive a leona?

Sachabot4 votes

Well, I've played against top Leona. Basically everyone can turret dive Leo, you don't hurt, so you haven't been harassing or trading. As Shyv, I'm gonna tower dive you and not give a crap. Post-six, I'll just have my jungler flank you to force you to split up your CC, and just eat the damage from the turret. Not like you're gonna be doing much damage by that point. You won't be able to farm or even leave your turret unless I was already gone, and any time you try, I'll just eat away at your health until it's too risk to stay out, since you don't have any built-in sustain. And as a mixed-damage dealer, you can't just Doran's me away for the first few minutes.

This ties into my other post. Leo doesn't do well against any of the top lane bruisers or mages, and she can't stop any of the tanks. Play it for funsies, but don't expect to win lane, or even do remotely well there. Take TP and gank whenever it is up.

Terraeclipse1 votes

Hey Look, it's Sachabot!

Sachabot1 votes

Hey look, it's Terra!

ChexMex3 votes

{quoted}

Well, I've played against top Leona. Basically everyone can turret dive Leo, you don't hurt, so you haven't been harassing or trading. As Shyv, I'm gonna tower dive you and not give a crap. Post-six, I'll just have my jungler flank you to force you to split up your CC, and just eat the damage from the turret. Not like you're gonna be doing much damage by that point. You won't be able to farm or even leave your turret unless I was already gone, and any time you try, I'll just eat away at your health until it's too risk to stay out, since you don't have any built-in sustain. And as a mixed-damage dealer, you can't just Doran's me away for the first few minutes.

This ties into my other post. Leo doesn't do well against any of the top lane bruisers or mages, and she can't stop any of the tanks. Play it for funsies, but don't expect to win lane, or even do remotely well there. Take TP and gank whenever it is up.

probably the second worst thing i've seen on this thread.

  1. nobody can dive leona without a risk of dying. Dive a leo with 150 armor , aoe ult, single target ult, armor and mr steroid that does aoe damage, and a slight root while progressively taking more damage from tower. 2)all of your 'situations' are really optimistic, thinking that it happens all the time where the opponent and your teammate just fall right into place 'and so at 5:12 im going to e q you and drop you to 520 health and then jungler will come up at 5:30 and then i'll cut you off!' 3)'eating' away at your health as top lane leona with a small mana pool? ok 4)leo heavily counters top lane bruisers, easily crushing riven in a 1v1 if riven doesnt perfectly time every single Valor.
  2. mixed damage doesn't mean you can't bully, why would you even say this?
Sachabot1 votes
  1. Almost any turret dive carries risk of dying, we've all seen the kite videos. I'm not saying do it blindly (ever, no matter the matchup). But in my experience, if you're against your turret with low health, it's cause I'm ahead. If I'm ahead as Shyv (which I was in the time I got to play against this), I'm gonna be beefy enough to eat a few shots, at least.

  2. I tend to ping for ganks and talk to my team about what's happening, and my next moves. Maybe it is optimistic, but not without reason. Communication is key here.

  3. But I'm playing Shyvana, the resourceless dragon. Not Leona.

  4. She would need levels to do that even reasonably well. Whereas Riven can go at level 1. Although Leo would eventually win out as the game progressed, yes. And I wouldn't play Riven into Leona. Or at all, I'm a bad Riven.

  5. Once again, I'm not Leona. To cope with Leona's lack of sustain, the majority would take Doran's at level 1, which doesn't deal with Shyv's mixed damage very well.

I'm sorry I was unclear about some of it. But yeah, my response is based on the one time I got to fight against Leona, and I stomped her out by bullying early and hard, and communicating with my jungler and team.

ChexMex1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Almost any turret dive carries risk of dying, we've all seen the kite videos. I'm not saying do it blindly (ever, no matter the matchup). But in my experience, if you're against your turret with low health, it's cause I'm ahead. If I'm ahead as Shyv (which I was in the time I got to play against this), I'm gonna be beefy enough to eat a few shots, at least.

  2. I tend to ping for ganks and talk to my team about what's happening, and my next moves. Maybe it is optimistic, but not without reason. Communication is key here.

  3. But I'm playing Shyvana, the resourceless dragon. Not Leona.

  4. She would need levels to do that even reasonably well. Whereas Riven can go at level 1. Although Leo would eventually win out as the game progressed, yes. And I wouldn't play Riven into Leona. Or at all, I'm a bad Riven.

  5. Once again, I'm not Leona. To cope with Leona's lack of sustain, the majority would take Doran's at level 1, which doesn't deal with Shyv's mixed damage very well.

I'm sorry I was unclear about some of it. But yeah, my response is based on the one time I got to fight against Leona, and I stomped her out by bullying early and hard, and communicating with my jungler and team.

Your situations are WAYYYY to specific. You'll only have that happen 1/100000000000 games... Ask any high elo player "Is it a good idea to dive leona just in general?" Their response will always be no , however they will give you situations to where its acceptable to dive her E.G she's 1 health or near 1 hp tower.. in which cause it's not a dive...

flibitydoo1 votes

A big part of top lane is: Trading (stuns are great for trades, but you're going to get chunked by every meta top laner harder than you can chunk them)

Sustain

You need to be able to trade well, and sustain because it's a long lane.

Dueling (1 v 1) is also important because you are top lane and you rarely get support from your team because if your jungler isn't focusing bot lane and securing dragons, then you are probably going to have a rough game (it's what, a 70% win rate to the team that scores first dragon?)

And Maokai and J4 do her job way better (knockup>stun) while also having good disengage (which leona has pretty weak escapes).

And the one thing that every solo laner kind of also needs is good waveclear. If it's ranged then even better due to how powerful siege and poke is now with ADCs nowadays.

Also your build is kind of weird, most solo lane Leonas I see go Trinity Force bruiser rather than building for AP bruiser.

ChexMex4 votes

There's a challenger player that mains leona mid There's a challenger player that mains leona top There's a challenger player that mains leona jungle.

It's possible. Anybody who tells you you can't is probably ignorant about League of legends.

Narasimha1 votes

Wait, who does Leo mid?

ChexMex1 votes

{quoted}

Wait, who does Leo mid?

Korean guy named 'ChoUn Suregi' english translation would be 'good trash'. pretty sure he doesn't play leo mid anymore, he used to hype it nonstop on streams.

Terraeclipse3 votes

Leona top actually isn't bad. You'd want to go on hit leona. Take Ad tank Runes/Masteries so her autos do a bit more, then start a dorans ring 2 pots.

First build can be either sunfire or IBG. I prefer the gauntlets first, because the extra mana is nice. Harass with aa q aa and walk away. Build IBG into sunfire for tankiness, then trinity, rylais, Wing boots for chasing, and then last item situational.

With the IBG and Trinity + sunfire, she'll actually do a LOT of damage, with a chance of crit on the double damage, in addition to having ap damage to back it up and tankiness and hp to be unkillable. She won't be quite as tanky as a traditional build, But did you see the amount of CC I put in there? IBG -> AOE slow. Sunfire aoe damage. Rylais, any of her abilities slow (meaning W hitting anyone will slow them, ult, q, e etc). You aren't escaping this build without flash, and maybe not even then.

A modified build for this can actually work for Jungle too, although her clear speed is pretty terrible.

She still has no sustain in lane. That's a pretty major flaw, but early, you can counter that with a flask, later on, it won't matter.

Yes, I know the trinity Sheen and the IBG passive don't stack, before someone calls me on that. But it DOES provide lots of other useful things, crits, hp, damage, move speed, mana.... It's worth the disabled passive to compliment her heavy cc with real damage.

-T http://briye.enjin.com/home

BRBGTGBOWFLEX3 votes

Leona main here.

Let me answer that for you.

Leona top is not that great.

First, without jungle, there is no real kill pressure on the enemy laner. Leona only wins in a 1v1 situation when the enemy is unaware of her trading potential.

Second, this build is trash. Leona does not scale enough off her AP to really bother with it. You will not get amazing results in an AP build. If you have to build her to carry a lane, you want a sheen item and ad. AP is not worth pursuing. This build is trash.

Third, Leona top doesn't evolve into what you want given the lane gold invested. She is not going to become an unassisted carry destroyer. She can already become a tank on a support gold budget. She doesn't gain the damage pressure that you would get from a Darius or really, any other top laner. She's equally disruptive from multiple roles, so why give her gold she doesn't really use?

Fourth, she can't really split push, so her options, even in a winning lane are limited. Her mobility is towards opponents only. You waste R if you use it as a solo disengage. Her passive is entirely dependent on not acting alone. So, her ability to exert solo pressure is minimal.

Fifth, your build just deserves special recognition for being trash. How about you try it and see why it sucks.

Sixth-- wave management. Leona lacks a real ability to wave clear with, and she can't really farm effectively at turret. Her auto animation is also really bad.


If you want to run Leona in an unconventional position, you put her mid. The reason is that she can actually bully a lot of mid laners, and jungle ganks are easier to execute. They become much more lethal. Also, she can gank bot or top and serve as a CC bot during those ganks. But her weakness, is again, lack of meaningful ways to push her lane to get clear to gank. She has terrible solo lane control of minion line. So, that prevents her from exerting her godly early game power.

WiegrafOfValor1 votes

I don't think my build sucks, I think you should review your understanding of the game.

BRBGTGBOWFLEX2 votes

Tell me more level 22 scrublord.

WiegrafOfValor1 votes

This acc is from 3 years ago, moron. I don't even play with it anymore.. O_O what is wrong with you??

Besides, my first try was a 12-5 total victory. With a Triple-kill against Zed, Yasuo and Ez. ;*

https://imageshack.com/i/pcceGEtzj https://imageshack.com/i/ipfEqndSp

PS: I'm downvoting you, because you didn't say anything constructive.

Sachabot1 votes

Leona's big problem top is that her passive doesn't give her anything. Unlike Lux, she can't proc it herself. Other than that, why not? She'd be a good pick if you were doing B- or C- list picks, but she doesn't handle well against the big top laners. That's all.

Narasimha1 votes

She's too reliant on another person for the majority of players. Unless she gets a gank, she's on the weaker end. By herelf, she doesn't have the damage output or sustain to compete with most top laners. And if you're good enough to pull off Leo top, then chances are you're good enough to use someone better suited for the task.

Wave1 votes

Yall are missing out on a key feature about Leona. Her auto attack resets are broken. Build her AD with a focus on hydra. You jump in and auto attack, Q for a reset on her auto, and if you immediately use A Click it will reset again for a third hit, Hydra active which does about an auto of dmg and resets for another. It comes out to about 5 auto attacks worth of dmg in about 2 seconds. She also has one of the highest base HP regen rates in the game and only really needs to build health for defense since her shield covers her for Armor and MR. Built and played this way she actually beats the tar out of a lot of other bruiser champ, cause then she just stuns and walks away if she needs to. Same thing works in the jungle which actually allows her to use her passive during ganks. Leona is super Broken.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

I did it a few times back in S3. Every now and then, you might see one. It can work, but I wouldn't try it in Yolo Q. Her lack of damage out-put early game makes her dependent on jungler aid until she can get a few items. Also, I wouldn't go AP. On-hit bruiser works a lot better in my experience (and is what I use on 3v3/dominion) Try starting with Hydra rush. This will help with your wave clear and give her some MUCH needed sustain. This also increases her burst (I'll cover that in a second).

Item build is flexible, but something alone the line of: item 3074 item 3025 item 3071 item 3091 item 3068 item 3151 or item 3001 Then pair with extra CDR from runes/masteries.

The biggest thing to keep in mind is her AA burst, which borders on assassin level with this build. With E-AA-Q-AA-Hydra she can land 4 /INSTANT/ Auto attacks; and the slow from IBG all but assures she'll land a 5th. By this point, she's fully stacked BC & WE before her opponents can even move. If you play smart with your E/Q and ult, you can win most most 1v1 fights. Your passive+BC will also help increase your teams overall damage output in a team fight.

At it's best, I've been able to 1v1 a full build Jax and win (ignite killed me a second later) since I was able to stun him out of his stun, then zenith blade back in. At it's worst, you face a competent top-laner, and get completely shut down/out-traded/poked to death.

ChexMex1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=1TvRFzUU,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2014-12-25T01:16:53.630+0000)

I did it a few times back in S3. Every now and then, you might see one. It can work, but I wouldn't try it in Yolo Q. Her lack of damage out-put early game makes her dependent on jungler aid until she can get a few items. Also, I wouldn't go AP. On-hit bruiser works a lot better in my experience (and is what I use on 3v3/dominion) Try starting with Hydra rush. This will help with your wave clear and give her some MUCH needed sustain. This also increases her burst (I'll cover that in a second).

Item build is flexible, but something alone the line of: item 3074 item 3025 item 3071 item 3091 item 3068 item 3151 or item 3001 Then pair with extra CDR from runes/masteries.

The biggest thing to keep in mind is her AA burst, which borders on assassin level with this build. With E-AA-Q-AA-Hydra she can land 4 /INSTANT/ Auto attacks; and the slow from IBG all but assures she'll land a 5th. By this point, she's fully stacked BC & WE before her opponents can even move. If you play smart with your E/Q and ult, you can win most most 1v1 fights. Your passive+BC will also help increase your teams overall damage output in a team fight.

At it's best, I've been able to 1v1 a full build Jax and win (ignite killed me a second later) since I was able to stun him out of his stun, then zenith blade back in. At it's worst, you face a competent top-laner, and get completely shut down/out-traded/poked to death.

The only issue I see with this is you are splitting your damage so much that you will do no significant damage later. That's like jax buying blood thirster and rabadon's deathcap.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

You aren't really going for the traditional beat-stick with this. Late game, you dive the back-line and burst the crap out of them. In 1v1's late game, you have to exploit her CC to go in-and-out of the fight to attack when you have your 4-AA combo up.

Lunarch Mikaeus1 votes

I'd rather get item 3158 item 3078item 3102 item 3110 item 3143 and then a situational Item item 3075 item 3800 item 3190 .

That way I have 40%cdr, makeing my Q have a 4.2 second cd, which makes me stunningly good. Triforce makes your Q hurt A LOT.

This build actually works (at low elo) even against counterpicks like Irelia. At lvl 3-5 you can solo-kill her (with creeps). Later you need some help.

Chief Rollie1 votes

Leona top is fine typically you build her AD with a Hydra and/or Trinity Force. The resulting burst is ridiculous because her standard combo is e w auto q auto hydra and so on so you get like 5 auto attacks in for free while they are locked up and unable to do anything.

BRBGTGBOWFLEX1 votes

[deleted]

WiegrafOfValor1 votes

This acc is from 3 years ago, moron. I don't even play with it anymore.. O_O what is wrong with you??

Besides, my first try was a 12-5 total victory. With a Triple-kill against Zed, Yasuo and Ez. ;*

https://imageshack.com/i/pcceGEtzj https://imageshack.com/i/ipfEqndSp

PS: I'm downvoting you, because you didn't say anything constructive.

TehomCD1 votes

It can work, but there's a few problems you need to keep in mind.

First, in any ranged matchup, you have no real way of stopping the person from farming. You're completely reliant on jungle pressure, so that means if they have a stronger jungle matchup versus your jungle and they countergank, things could go very, very badly. Also, if they have an advantageous lane matchup elsewhere on the map that requires jungle pressure normally to win, and you're forcing your jungle to continually come top for free kills, you're probably going to lose the game no matter how well you do, since a fed Leona won't be able to shut down a fed hypercarry from another lane - you'll be relying on your jungler being fed enough that you can be dive-buddies on a super strong backline.

In other words, you should consider this if you have an assassin/carry jungler, but if you have a tank jungler you're in very high risk of not having enough damage to accomplish anything even if you both get really fed as the game goes later. Midgame you'll still be able to kill people just running off your base damage values, but late your damage will fall off really hard.

The other major problem is very weak pushing. Even with you building wit's end/sunfire, you're going to have very weak waveclear compared with most tops. If the enemy team has a lot of pushing power, you could find yourself winning almost every fight but still losing the game as you continually lose turrets to splitpushes, eventually lose inhibitors while winning a teamfight elsewhere, and trying to tank inner turrets without creep waves in order to get something back from winning fights, then lose as they get free barons/dragons over and over again.

tl;dr - Play Leona top if you have a carry/assassin jungler, and strong pushing from other lanes. Don't play it if your team lacks these things.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

because ad leona bot with another support item 3078 item 3153 item 3075 item 3068 or build whatever you like

dat feel when you have triforce and you q a tower (it loses like 1/8 of its total hp early then it gets funnier)

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