Boards›Teamfight Tactics

TFT RNG[NEEDS FIXING]

Zepharius·12/9/2019, 9:59:25 AM·6 votes·1,338 views
  • Carousel
  • Item Balance
  • Champ purchases/rerolls

  1. Let's start with the carousel. It needs work. It's not a bad idea and I like the concept. The problem is it rewards players for doing poorly. So it's not uncommon to play badly on purpose to get first pick to get the items and champions that you want. This is a legit strat that comes into play more often than not, leading the lower players to almost always dominate the higher tier players because of BAD RNG. That's not even all of it either. The way the items spin is a mess. Sometimes turn order can be completely negated by an item being completely spun around the opposite side of you. Making turn order almost nonexistent as well. I'm not saying they need to take this out, but this needs fixing.

  2. Item balance is just crap. Let me state now, I do not have a problem with this game being luck based over strategy. What I have an issue with is the fact that by the end of the beginning minion rounds, some people can have several items, while others have almost none. They either need to have a set list of items to be grabbed, or everyone get the same amount of items and gold. If that were the case, it would at least be easier to play around the items you get, and not just get shat on in the game because your opponent got lucky and was able to build 3 items ahead of you.

  3. Last item on the list here. Champ re-rolls need re-worked. I understand that it's random and getting the champs you want is hard. But this is my issue. By the end of the game, 4 people left, let's say you're running a 2 star maokai and everyone else who had him is no longer in the game. Meaning the rest of him is now purchasable. I've literally spent my entire fortune trying to get the VERY LAST TREE MAN I NEEDED! And nothing. Like, 60g+ worth of gold and I can't even get a lowly 1 cost unit to finish off my 3 star? It happens with more than maokai as well. I do understand the higher level you are the less likely you are to see lower cost champs and better chance of higher cost champs. But I really think by that late in the game, maybe the champ select should rotate around what you're building or at least give you better chances of champs you've got on your team. Like, if you're running wardens, the chances of warden appearing increases.

What are your guys thoughts on this and how would you fix these issues if you think they are an issue?

8 Comments

RhastaFhasta12/9/2019, 11:55:08 AM2 votes

Yes RNG needs a fix Uzi been tryna win worlds since 2013

Aikido Panda12/9/2019, 10:44:20 AM1 votes

I strongly agree with your 3rd paragraph. The higher chances of getting champs you already have would be a nice improvement. But I would go even further and let the player purchase a copy of ANY champ he already has, for greatly increased cost. The carousel mechanics seems just fine. The issue is with bonuses for winning PvP rounds. I think they are too small until stage 3, when damage to the player increases. If a player will get more for winning a particular round, he will get a choice between losing early to use the carousel and winning early to use these bonuses. The problem with items will stay until there's an opportunity to purchase items manually for gold. Now it looks like "I got 2 items for PvE, my opponent got some goldand wasted it for rerolls, so I have an advantage" I doubt that something can be done with this now.

Heroboy1012/9/2019, 11:09:35 AM1 votes

I agree with your "Item Balance" proposal.

{quoted}

Let's start with the carousel. It needs work. It's not a bad idea and I like the concept. The problem is it rewards players for doing poorly. So it's not uncommon to play badly on purpose to get first pick to get the items and champions that you want. This is a legit strat that comes into play more often than not, leading the lower players to almost always dominate the higher tier players because of BAD RNG.

This is the part maybe I don't understand.

IMo "higher tier" doesn't mean they are good players and deserve to win, but they could have luck to start with the best comp such like: 3 Predator or 3 Woodland/Druid or combination of Kindred, Varus, Zyra, Malzahar.

IMO intentional losing HP to build your first item is a fair sacrifice because :

  1. Those 15-20 HP lost can be huge late game when you wished to have some more HP.
  2. As you said is not a guarantee you'll get your wished item from Carusel. Your opponent can grab it from opposite side :)

{quoted} 3. By the end of the game, 4 people left, let's say you're running a 2 star maokai and everyone else who had him is no longer in the game. Meaning the rest of him is now purchasable. I've literally spent my entire fortune trying to get the VERY LAST TREE MAN I NEEDED! And nothing.

At level 8 the drop rate chance for level 1 unit is 15%. Hmm. Many time spent a fortune to find a level 4 unit when I was level 8 and the chances are 22%.

Your proposal is interesting, but level 5 2 stars units I think is too much.

8Belthazor812/9/2019, 12:04:58 PM1 votes

I agree with some points and disagree with others.

Carousel: I think it is fine as it is. Ofc, intentionally losing rounds can be a strategy if you are looking for a certain item that makes your champion superstrong, however, that is rarely the case. Generally you have to value your hp more than that. It isn't guaranteed you can get your desired item anyway.

Item Balance: It definitely needs some changes. Imo the chance of getting gold instead of items is the worst and most unbalanced feature of the game. Especially in late game when you are in all-in position. You hyperroll for the best comp you can get, you use all your remaining items you have... pardon, you have no items because the creeps dropped nothing but useless gold before the final rounds.

Champ re-rolls: If you are looking for a 3 star Maokai in late game then you have already made several mistakes. Firstly, you have to hyperroll for 1-2 gold champions at lvl 5 or 6. Like you said, you get low value champions at high levels with a much lesser chance just like you get the high value champions at low levels. I think this part of the champion reroll system is fine. I am rather pissed when I sacrifice my early game for a late game comp and get to high levels really fast but all I get at lvl 8 are garbage 1 gold champions. Secondly, woodland-druid is op at early game but garbage at late game unless you managed to 3 star them, so you shouldn't have any silver woodland champion at late game. If you cannot 3 star them until lvl 7 then transfer them into something else.

Great Daimadoshi12/9/2019, 12:27:52 PM1 votes

I strongly agree with everything, I would like to reduce the RNG to the minimal doing something like this:

1. The carousel This stage is fine for me, except for one thing: when a player choose the champ, remove him from the carousel! This simple shrewdness grants enough readability to the remaining players, reducing the amount of time you need to understand if you have picked the champ or if you need to move to another one.

**2. The items ** I would rather choose the items from a fixed RNG list with the same amount of pieces for everyone, if you don't choose in time, like 8 seconds, the system give you a random one from the list. I don't count how many times I lost a game because someone else was blessed by RNG and had 2/3 items more than me. Something like:

  • round 1, 2, 3: at the end of those rounds you can choose one piece from a list of 3, granting you 2 complete items at the beginning of pvp

  • round 9, 15, 21: at the end of those rounds you can choose three pieces from a list of 6, granting you 2 complete items because of the item piece from the carousels at round 6, 12, 18

  • round 27, 33, 39, 45: at the end of those rounds you can choose one full item from a list of 3

At the end of round 24, the first carousel with full items, every player have 9 items. In this way you need to arrange the compo around the items you choose but you're not gutted by the number of items and you can focus on units and positioning. Gold and Neeko's Help drop remains the same.

3. Champs rerolls Another thorn in the side, totally RNG based (for what we know) and almost totally no skill based. You can go for champs that noboby else is picking, but this does not guarantee you that you're going to find all the necessary unit to upgrade to lvl 3. Sure, you can hyper-roll and hope for the best but again no brain play involved, just "luck". Neeko's help is a good addition but it's not enough, too many games where you didn't find it and, by the time you had completed one 1 star champ to lvl 3, someone else already had three champs at lvl 3. The solution could be to add a special shop where you can buy a one star champion of the champs in your compo, if available from the pool, at a massive cost:

  • 1 star champs -> 12 gold, limited to 2 units of the same champ

  • 2 star champs -> 15 gold, limited to 2 units of the same champ

  • 3 star champs -> 18 gold, limited to 2 units of the same champ

  • 4 star champs -> 25 gold, limited to 1 unit of the same champ

  • 5 star champs -> 30 gold, limited to 1 unit of the same champ

  • 7 star champs -> 50 gold, limited to 1 unit of the same champ

In this way you can choose to spend your savings and level up the champs or to try your luck rerolling.

Jungle Lux God12/9/2019, 10:26:18 PM1 votes

I disagree with this assessment of the Carousel. Since winning a round against another player gives you gold and having a win streak gets you gold, winning a lot early on could be easily converted into a win. Giving players who do poorly early on early carousel picks gives them a chance to stop the bleeding and get back into the game. My only complaint on this front is that the carousel, win gold, and gold on win/loss streak rewards players who either do really bad or really good, and punishes players in the middle since the lowest players are getting the best carousel picks and lose streak bonuses and the highest players are getting win streak bonuses and win gold, leaving with mid-tier players with practically nothing.

I agree that the balance of items should be looked at, at least for late-game. Forcing asymmetrical starts between the rewards you get early on is a good way to make games feel different and to test players' abilities to adapt from game to game. Later on it can be frustrating when you have already settled into a team comp and just need to power it up, and at that point it's better to get items from it.

The RNG that I find frustrating is the RNG on certain trait bonuses like Ranger, Mage, or Berserker. It's frustrating when your opponent has a Brand and would win if your opponent doesn't get the 50/50 on Brand double cast and lose if his Brand single casts, and the bonus feels bad relative to a lot of others when you stack them up to level 6, where it's no longer random. Same thing with random effects from items like Sword Breaker, Hush, and Hand of Justice.