Thoughts on TFT patch 9.17 notes.

Cräfty·Aug 28, 2019·2 votes·1,323 views

I still don't see a bugfix to the " units going AFK randomly " problem.

Pantheon

Cost: 5 Gold
Origin: Dragon
Class: Guardian
Grand Starfall: Pantheon leaps in the air, crashing down towards the farthest enemy, stunning them for 4/6/8 seconds. Enemies in Pantheon's path take 15%/30%/45% of their Maximum Health as Magic Damage. They then burn for an additional 20% of their Maximum Health as True Damage over 10 seconds. Applies Grievous Wounds.

So, this guy has:

CC in the form of a stun.
15 / 30 / 45% Max HP Aoe Magic Damage.
20% Max HP AoE True Damage (DoT).
AoE Grievous Wounds effect (80% less healing).
83% Magic Damage Reduction, if paired up with or (which will always happen, btw).
a base armor of 120 (source: https://tftactics.gg/champions/pantheon). So when paired up with or he will get to 170 armor (too squishy, hein?).
a base mana of 150, starting the fights at 100 (source: https://tftactics.gg/champions/pantheon).

I don't care if he's a 5 cost unit or a 10 cost unit, these stats and numbers are absurdly overtuned and should have never made to live server. Seriously, who the fuck is designing these shitty OP units? And why release this unit in this state when so many PBE tester have publicly stated that is too broken and overloaded in his current state?

Hextech

Item disable duration: 8 seconds ⇒ 7 seconds

Seriously, Riot? -__-'

Noble " Tapping down their power a little bit. "

Armor & Magic Resist: 60 ⇒ 50
Healing: 35 ⇒ 25

Such a lame way to nerf Nobles. This is such an irrelevant nerf that won't change anything. The fact remains that Nobles still provides both damage mitigation types, physical and magical, and still gives a lifesteal effect on-hit.

Nobles shouldn't give both armor and Magic Resist in the first place. Or even if you want them to, make it so that they give half the MR, like Scarra said so many times in his videos and streams.

Also, why this emphasis on giving them a lifesteal on-hit effect? All that tankiness is not busted enough for you?

A real nerf to Nobles would've been something like:

Armor & Magic Resist: 60 => 60 Armor & 30 MR
Healing: 35 => 20

Ranger " Making Rangers more consistent. "

Double Attack Speed chance: 25%/65% ⇒ 30% /70%

First of all, there is a bug in game that prevents Rangers from getting the intended double AS. They get way less (ex: 0.7 when doubled gives 1.19 on live server, atm, instead of 1.4).

Second, If you're gonna buff Ranger class like this, you should nerf at the same time. That unit is already problematic, for being only a 3 cost unit, because of her stun lock mechanic, if she gets items and Ranger buff on her.

With this Ranger buff, I'm expecting Glacials to return to their prime dictatorship and that ain't no fun for anyone!

Warwick

Health: 600 ⇒ 650

Why though? is already a very good 1 cost unit. He didn't need a buff, especially that, when paired up with an early 2 star or an , he's very strong early to mid game. And you're telling me that now he has the same HP as , a 2 cost unit?

And since his base HP went up, considering he's a brawler, then he's gonna be so much powerful at 2 and 3 star... as powerful as a tanky 2 cost unit... Heck, he's even tankier than , which is a 3 cost unit with 650 base HP and 25 base armor (WW has 30 base armor)!

Riot, WTF are you doing? Seriously...

11 Comments

PorglitAug 28, 20193 votes

I thought every single change they made was good. It sounds like you're just salty at this game.

CräftyAug 28, 20192 votes

I thought every single change they made was good.

" every single change ", hein?! well... Maybe you're not capable of criticism? Idk...

It sounds like you're just salty at this game.

Hmmm...

Yeah, I'm so salty at this game that I actually wasted hours of my time sharing my thoughts on each patch and some aspects of the game. It's not like I poured 300 ranked games into TFT and I'm Diamond 3, or anything. It's not like I care a lot about this game that I actually get pissed off when Riot does dumb shit to it (even for regular League).

Yeah, apparently I'm just salty at this game... Nice logic, mate!

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

ZephyrDrakeAug 28, 20192 votes

Wow this is hilariously bad. First the double AS from rangers is a multiplicative thing not an addition. That is not a bug it is intended.

Nobles literally got nerfed to an even weaker state than when they started getting buffs because nobody cared about them. "This nerf won't do anything" yeah sure whatever you say. Also it is suppose to be the main defensive buff and It's almost utterly useless unless you get all 6 nobles.

Pantheon is still a 5 cost unit. 5 costs units are supposed to be "OP" they are supposed to be units you can easily build around and make them into your main carry unit. They are supposed to be the strongest units in the game. Also "this unit has a stun" and what unit doesn't? Most glacials do, leona does, cho has a massive knockup, lulu has one as well. You speak like CC is somehow this devastating thing that so few units have. Also the main part of the damage is magic damage so you can build against it should you so wish.

Oh noes WW is tanker than Vi! But you aren't putting Vi to be a frontline unit since she will go after the backline when she uses her ult so... what is the point of comparing them like that? Vi is still better than WW since she doesn't need other useless units around just for him to be ok. Vi is strong all on her own. Also 1 star and 2 star units have so little differences and are so interchangeable It's hilarious.

CräftyAug 28, 20192 votes

Wow this is hilariously bad. First the double AS from rangers is a multiplicative thing not an addition. That is not a bug it is intended.

I've been following this game since it was on PBE and I played hundreds of games of Rangers, when they were meta, and the buff always gave 1.4 AS on Ashe and Varus , since they have 0.7 AS. Always! Which is normal since the buff state:

Rangers gain a chance to double their attack speed every 3s for the next 3s.

They double their total AS, not their base AS. Somewhere between patch 9.15 and 9.16 this bug happened and now, 0.7 AS gives 1.19 instead of 1.4.

1.19 = 0.7 x 0.7 + 0.7 and 1.4 = 0.7 + 0.7 or 0.7 x2.

The code for Ranger buff got messed up and everyone who have experience in TFT noticed it, as well. Somehow, in the buff formula, there is an unnecessary multiplication of the current AS that is messing up the actual double value of AS that should be given to Rangers. Afterall, when a buff literally says that it doubles the AS of Rangers, it should mean literally it makes the current AS of those unit twice the current amount.

It' not rocket science, it's simple math:

X^2 + X is not equal to 2X.

Nobles literally got nerfed to an even weaker state than when they started getting buffs because nobody cared about them.

Nobody cared about them? Were you living under a rock or something?

"This nerf won't do anything" yeah sure whatever you say.

Don't take my word for it. Even Scarra and other challenger streamers expressed the same opinion. I guess you know better than all of them!

Also it is suppose to be the main defensive buff and It's almost utterly useless unless you get all 6 nobles.

I never said they should get rid of their defensive buff, I said they should tone it down somehow and even gave an example of how that can be done.

Pantheon is still a 5 cost unit. 5 costs units are supposed to be "OP" they are supposed to be units you can easily build around and make them into your main carry unit. They are supposed to be the strongest units in the game.

I know that 5 cost units are supposed to be the strongest units in the game, but they're not supposed to be OP and overloaded. Pantheon is overloaded with so much damage and utility and that should not have happened.

Also "this unit has a stun" and what unit doesn't? Most glacials do, leona does, cho has a massive knockup, lulu has one as well. You speak like CC is somehow this devastating thing that so few units have.

Dude, I just listed what 's kit has. I never said " Here is a list of problems that this guy has " or something like that. When I said " this unit has a stun " it's just one thing among other mechanics that he has. So chill down! I didn't single out " having a stun " as a problem of Pantheon or anything, it's just a list about he offers and " having CC " is one thing on the list.

And since you didn't understand why I made that list, here is why. It's to show how overloaded his kit is and how much damage, utility and security he has. Even for a 5 cost unit, overloading a unit like this is pretty bad design and unhealthy for the game.

Take Swain , for example:

He gains HP when he transform (Shapeshifter buff).
He deals AoE magic damage (drain effect).
He heals for a lot (Hot: Heal over Time).
He deals AoE burst magic damage at the end.

This guy doesn't offer utility at all, he has no CC, but he's overloaded with damage and healing effects. Result? He got nerfed this patch, and rightfully so. If Swain got nerfed because of just these few things, what do you think should happen to Pantheon, who is more overloaded than Swain?

Also the main part of the damage is magic damage so you can build against it should you so wish.

He deals 20% max HP TRUE damage to all units he hits, as burn damage. Combine that with a item 3165 , and good luck itemizing against it.

Oh noes WW is tanker than Vi! But you aren't putting Vi to be a frontline unit since she will go after the backline when she uses her ult so... what is the point of comparing them like that? Vi is still better than WW since she doesn't need other useless units around just for him to be ok. Vi is strong all on her own. Also 1 star and 2 star units have so little differences and are so interchangeable It's hilarious.

A 1 cost unit should never have the same stats as a 3 cost unit, regardless of how useful or useless they are.

Also, I'm editing the Vi part because I just realized that Vi's base HP is 650 and not 600, so that's my bad. But she still has 25 armor, which is less than WW's 30 base armor. But I digress.

IllabetheAug 28, 20191 votes

And it's worth noting: Pantheon by himself completely trivializes Swain, because Swain without healing dies in two seconds and has one of the weakest damage outputs in the game among 5 stars. Swain is ONLY strong with an opponent doesn't have grievous wounds.

MF just has an aoe that hits about 1/3 of the screen. Panth hits about 3/4. She has no CC or other effects.

Kayle only invulns 1-2 champs. No offensive power.

Karthus just does global damage, and nowhere close to Pantheon's. Also has a charge up, so it can be cancelled.

Anivia's is just a joke in size, and it's DoT.

IllabetheAug 28, 20191 votes

On Pantheon he's pointing out that unlike other 5 stars, Pantheon can literally control an entire friggin team's demise.

His ult hits about 3/4 of the board, and the damage output with items is literally 80%+ of their entire HP by himself, and over 100 % HP damage by 2 star IN ADDITION to being suited for Noble Comp and Dragon Comp because of Guardian and Sorcerer.

He's OP on another level, because not only can he 1 shot a team, stun his target, etc, he also has built in Grievous Wounds! He's literally a built in Morellonomicon on top of 1 shotting a team.

And, it's only costing 100 Mana, which means something like 3 Tears in items will get it cast almost at combat start.

CräftyAug 28, 20191 votes

And, it's only costing 100 Mana, which means something like 3 Tears in items will get it cast almost at combat start.

He has 150 max mana.

IllabetheAug 28, 20191 votes

You're the one in your post who said he has a base mana of 100.

CräftyAug 28, 20191 votes

Oh, my bad, then!

I meant to write, in my thread, that he has 150 max mana with 100 starting mana.

Rectified!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

IllabetheAug 28, 20191 votes

That's still scary. 100 with 150 max with 3 Tears = start of fight cast

IllabetheAug 28, 20191 votes

The Pantheon legitimately scares me, because of two possible teams:

(3) Sorc team/Shapershifter/Dragon (40% Bonus damage on that insane ult, which also scales to AP)

(6) Noble (3) Guardian (2) Gunslinger (Effectively gives Pantheon 220 Armor, and more Magic Resist, in addition to a Kayle buff, Heals, etc, and the entire Noble team 50 more Armor)

Those two Pantheon comps are going to be pure nightmares.

That being said:

I don't think Riot's actual intent was to nerf Nobles. In their notes, they suggest the Noble "nerf" is to offset their change to how grievous wounds will work (80% Heal redux instead of 100%) In other words, they're trying to adjust Noble for that reason, and the fact another guardian is adding 50 Armor.

But yeah. 1 Star Pantheon has the potential to 1 shot an entire team, if he has 3 Sorcerers on it, and builds items like item 3089 item 3285 (Doesn't need Morellonomicon either), because Riot designed BOTH parts of his ult to scale with AP (They've said that AP increases true damage, and it obviously impacts MAGIC damage). In other words, with a Death Cap + Luden's, Pantheon has what? 180 AP (I thought it was 90, but I've seen an Ahri with a Luden/Death Cap/Morello, have something like 240 AP, so I don't know..... maybe that was with 100% Sorc buff)

Even if it's only 90, that's a 90% Increase in his ult damage. Which means..... 90 AP is equivalent of having 126 with (3) Sorcerer, which puts his ult at

33.9% Max Health damage (Because it's Magic damage), followed by a 45.2% Burn. That's 79.1% of an entire team's HP in a single skill. Just from 2 items. Then, there's the Luden's Proc which takes off another 150 HP. The only way this doesn't kill a unit: They have more than 750 HP. That means it will insta kill any 1 stars, and nearly kill 2 stars, all by itself...... just at 1 Star.

2 Star would also kill all 2 Stars and most 3 Stars. And that's just with 2 used item slots. And ignoring the team comp he's on other than a sorc buff.

If he's on Sorc/Shapeshifter/Dragon, for example, what about Aurelian Sol, Shyvana, Gnar, etc damage on top of that? Or the fact Sorc/Shape often also has VOID packed into it?