Zephyr

Godammit Nappa·1/14/2020, 6:52:52 PM·4 votes·3,577 views

Why do we not know who we are facing next? It completely disregards the little bit of strategy that Zephyr COULD have (until top 3-4). I have played other auto chess games and they usually inform you of your next opponent, which lets you actually position better. This random player thing does nothing but push the lack of skill and placement required to win and to focus only on your team strength and traits.

Also, how come I can face the same person twice in a row? Win or loss that is never a good interaction.

35 Comments

Brodka1/14/2020, 8:43:46 PM5 votes

Because the game is awful and has too much rng in so many areas of the game. There is little to no skill expression in this game, you're forced to make due with whatever the game gives you and if you get worse units/items the game is just over. And yes the matchmaking is awful, I love when I'm last place early in the game with no leveled units and they put me up against the guy in first place, really great game design.

Żügżwäng1/16/2020, 4:22:45 PM2 votes

I agree with you and Brodka. The game would be much better if it just started with 4 players max, letting you actually plan for your opponents much better. I don't understand the 8 man free for all decision. I'd much rather prefer a 1v1, right from the start, you can see everything your opponent does constantly, as he can see with you. As it stands though, this is how they're going to leave it... which is sad because the game does have some decent potential.

XAltinaOrionX1/18/2020, 4:57:53 AM2 votes

Geez kids learn to end this stupid argument. Or maybe i will have too. before i go to bed.

TFT is not a skilled based chess game. (Your not working hard to complete something) The kids who are high ranked play this over 9hrs daily. Of course these high ranked players will run into issues like 3 opponents can't gain any traction because their team comp is the same. So yea you can throw in some Luck in TFT. TFT is just gathering info and throwing it down hoping you can switch it up on the fly that's all.

Saezio1/15/2020, 1:22:56 PM1 votes

The problem with your suggestion (knowing who you will face next) means that a ton of classes would need to be buffed because positioning well would fuck em up. Assassins for example. If everyone positions perfectly against them for the entire game they fucked.

also, zephyr would be way way waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more broken if you can basically guarantee you throw enemy's best unit every round.

I think maybe allowing the player 1-2 seconds to reposition after both teams are in the same board would be reasonable. but not the entire planning phase

True Garen1/18/2020, 9:57:14 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Godammit Nappa,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=Y2NEA1As,comment-id=,timestamp=2020-01-14T18:52:52.113+0000)

Why do we not know who we are facing next? It completely disregards the little bit of strategy that Zephyr COULD have (until top 3-4). I have played other auto chess games and they usually inform you of your next opponent, which lets you actually position better. This random player thing does nothing but push the lack of skill and placement required to win and to focus only on your team strength and traits.

Also, how come I can face the same person twice in a row? Win or loss that is never a good interaction.

You want to know who the next player is so that you can use your Zephyr better?!

Zephyr is a fundamentally bad item. It's only a bit useful in the current Season because you can assume that enemy has a key unit on a map buff hex. (But you'll also want your best units on those hexes by late game, and those units would probably be stacked with better items.) So, playing Zephyr can get you to top 4 usefully.

By late game, the opponent ALSO knows that you have a Zephyr and where you are keeping it, so it's fairly easy to counter. (Zephyr scales poorly for this reason, and also because, obviously, as more units are added to the board, the strength of Zephyr becomes proportionately weaker.)

Knowing who the next opponent is, would make Zephyr even LESS useful.

I usually announce any Zephyr that I spot, in chat, as soon as I see it.

True Garen1/25/2020, 2:50:32 AM1 votes

Other items can't be countered by simply "paying attention". You just said, the item only works if your opponent isn't mindful. That's the definition of a bad item. It only works if your opponent is bad.

Try NOT making Zephyrs, and instead, making appropriate items for your carrys. See if you don't win more often doing that.

I feel Zephyr is what people make, because they don't want to learn good itemization.

You can indeed build to counter. You can see early in the match how it's going. You can assume, that you will want grievous wounds. Somebody gonna make Olaf. You can see very early if somebody is trying to build a Veigar. There's a few ways to counter that, and try to include it in your comp.

"Hush" counters Mages. Mages want to build mana quickly to double Ult. You can slow that down. What are they including with their mages? A Nami? Better get QS on some assassin to take her out. These are just examples. The fact that you think that Zephyr is good, and you also don't believe that counterbuilding is possible, isn't a coincidence.

if you make it to late end-game, then you will probably have 9 complete items. By that time, your opponent is certainly familiar with your Zephyr.

Anyway, this is what I see. Guys even make 2 or 3 of them. I build very large comps with many synergies. I'll have some units just for synergy, and otherwise quite weak. I'll most likely make sure that the enemy Zephyr targets those. Or else my champ with a QS.

We should check Zephyr winrate as an item...

True Garen1/25/2020, 3:26:48 AM1 votes

You know what else counters Zephyr? Ocean. I bet Zephyr is especially poor on an Ocean map, where many players include that trait.

If you want to keep making it, then be my guest. I don't care what items you try to make in your matches.

You pointed out that Zephyr capitalizes on inattention. It can be countered simply by the first player who sees it, chatting "Nice Zephyr, Godammit Nappa". Not Good.

...

Maybe it is, overall, a good item, since it can help a player make Top 4. The item itself, becomes weaker as the game continues, but a player who built it early may have one sufficiently take advantage of that.

In the end game, a team which includes Zephyr, ought to be weaker than a comparably strong team, that made a unit-appropriate item instead.