PLEASE REDUCE RNG MECHANICS! Suggestions included

leerroy·6/28/2019, 2:59:08 PM·40 votes·11,880 views

CHAMPIONS: Personally I am mostly comfortable with the RNG surrounding champions because it brings freshness to every new match of TFT. I like the fact that everyone is inclined to build a comp around the champions they have available. It brings diversity to the game instead of everyone just building the most overpowered team comps, which would happen if we had the choice to just get any champions we wanted. However, I will say one thing that can get frustrating is not being able to complete a 2 or 3 star champion just because you didnt get lucky on rerolls. I've had matches where I was sitting on 50 gold and rerolling 25 times didn't get me the champion I wanted, this just felt unfair. It would be nice to have the option to pay a potentially high fee (25 for 2 star, 50 for 3 star?) to complete a champion if you are missing just one more. This would be a good feature as it would let people choose whether they want to sacrifice their high income for a strong champion or keep their income and be able to increase their team diversity (since having a high income basically means you get consistent rerolls every round)

ITEMS: That being said regarding champions, I am personally very unhappy with the extent of how RNG items are. Its not fair that some people can receive a bunch of items during the minion/monster rounds just because they got lucky, while others could have bad luck and not get any items. I believe a good fix for this is to either:

  1. Make it so everybody receives a minimum of X>0 item drops during the minion/monster rounds. A simple and fair solution, everyone has items, and even if the items are random people just have to think better about which champion they want to give items to.
  2. Increase the chance of receiving an item from a minion/monster round if no items were received in the previous round(s) and decrease this chance if you did get items. With this solution people who got an early lead wont just snowball ahead, and people who got unlucky early would have hope for coming back later in the game when they faced later rounds of monsters.

24 Comments

DC50Athletics6/28/2019, 6:22:59 PM10 votes

I'm gonna just drop this here from the thread I made regarding possible fixes to the same problems:

Reading through the multitudinous complaint threads on both gameplay boards, as well as playing a dozen or so rounds of this game mode, has given me the idea to make a list of the primary complaints along with what I think are the best possible fixes to implement to resolve the issue.

1: RNG in item quantities.

People do not like the fact that the number of items dropped by mob phases is entirely random. Yes, this is how it was done in the unofficial DotA 2 mod that INSPIRED TFT, but in the official version from Valve this is no longer true because IT WAS THE NUMBER ONE THING PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT AS BEING UNFAIR IN THE MOD!

Now, granted, we would likely NOT want the version from DotA Underlords implemented here for three reasons. 1: One item/global buff per creep round no matter how many creeps or how hard the fight. 2: DotA Underlords only allows one item per unit, period, the end, and you can't combine them either! 3: As stated before, creep waves in DotA Underlords also contain options for global buffs which we don't want here because they'd need to be overwhelmingly powerful to even be a viable option to pick instead of an item drop.

Proposed solution: Force an item to drop for every two creeps killed prior to Dragon camp stage, then one item per Dragon/Herald/Elder Dragon. Yes, with the odd number of minions in round 2 this will mean that there is a hanging item waiting for your first kill in the first 'jungle' camp, which all seem to have odd numbers of creeps anyways so it'll average out in the end. 3 Krugs, 5 Wolves, 5 Raptors, 7 items in total available from jungle camps provided you kill all creeps in the jungle camp stage. This would be a vast improvement over the current state of the mode where one person with a streak of bad luck could get ZERO items from the minion waves while another person can go into their first PVP round with a silver champ that has two rageblades and a guardian angel.

Proposed solution #2: Any creep that does not drop an item drops 10 gold instead. This alternative offers some form of compensation to those who are not LUCKY enough to get an item drop in the form of a champion availability steroid/level-up steroid, which can compensate for a lack of items by allowing unlucky players to search the shop earlier to get silver champs, or to give them a boost in interest income early on if they choose to sit on it.

My preference is the first proposed solution because the shop ALSO suffers from RNG issues, but that's an issue with the game TYPE rather than this specific version of it.

2: Limited Availability of Champions

Nobody likes this. Nobody likes being forced to reroll a dozen times just to find the ONE champ they need because some dunce that got knocked out in round 4-2 had five of them and created an artificial scarcity.

Yes, we get that raising our level makes starting champions less likely to show up, but some of those starting champions are really good and they don't always show up in the first shop option every match when you're at the right level. With INTEREST being such a huge thing as a gold income steroid, it deincentivizes spending gold on rerolls early on for a CHANCE to see another unit of the champ you want. Gold income early on can be agonizingly slow and NOBODY wants to make it even slower to get to that lovely stage where you're pulling in 10+ gold per round from passive income and full interest.

Proposed solution #1: Any time a player is knocked out of the game, their standing army is recorded for the end screen and then their units are broken down to bronze levels and put back into the 'deck' so they are once again available in the shop for anyone to buy.

Proposed Solution #2: The player that knocks another player out of the game is given the option to pick any one champion of their choice to take from the roster of the player who has been knocked out. Items are not included in this, and any gold champions are broken down into three silvers so nobody gets a free gold champion without having worked their way up (unless they already have two silvers of the same champ on their own roster of course, in which case they HAVE earned it). At the end of all combat the between-matches timer is frozen and all other players are then given the option to pick any one of the remaining champions from the former player's pool STARTING WITH THE PERSON IN LAST PLACE and moving up from there until everyone has either chosen or declined to take a free champion. Play then proceeds as normal with the pre-match setup phase restarting.

Obviously option 1 would be simpler to implement as well as generally more balanced while option 2 gives struggling players a CHANCE to get a bit of a boost via a free silver, or lower, champion. Both options are still better than what we have now where those champions are still locked up and effectively removed from play, blocking another player who just needs one more (Insert 1-gold champ of choice here) to finish their tier-3 version of the champ.

3: Random avatar damage

This is simply a case of the game not explaining that higher-tiered champions deal more end-of-combat damage to avatars, as well as end-of-combat damage being based on the number of enemy champs remaining, plus a random amount of damage from the enemy avatar based on the current game phase that scales up as the game goes on.

Proposed solution: Give us a quick breakdown of the damage taken, similar to how DotA Underlords does at the end of a fight: 3 damage from a gold champ, 2 from a silver, 1 from a bronze, and then whatever damage from the avatar based on game stage, presumably 1 damage per major creep camp with increments increasing after krugs, wolves, etc. Yes, there's already an in-game tip stating that the damage that you take increases as the game goes on, but people will UNDERSTAND better with a quick displayed breakdown of damage taken that takes all of ten seconds to show us, if that.

4: Facing the same player over and over

Some people get stuck facing the same two opponents constantly until the next roulette/carousel event. A simple and quick fix would be to have the game avoid putting you against the same person less than three matches apart unless there aren't enough people for that.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but PLEASE discuss other solution options in a comment, or at least discuss ideas I have presented here that you like so that this gets the attention it needs to influence how this mode matures and develops so that it can be enjoyable for every player and luck/randomness is GREATLY reduced to better allow for the use of TACTICS. You know, that thing in the name of the mode that's currently almost a joke?

Sire Hippington6/28/2019, 6:22:05 PM5 votes

imo the best solution for items would be like in dota underlords:

  • win = choose one out of 3 items
  • lose = get 1 random

Maybe with just 1 item per wave we'd have a bit to few overall and need either more creep waves or change that a bit, maybe to

  • win = 1random + 1chosen from X
  • kill atleast X = choose 1 between X
  • loose 1 random

so 1-2 items per creepround

i'd also love to be able to take items away from champs without selling them

ItsPacman6/28/2019, 6:07:27 PM5 votes

{quoted}

I've had matches where I was sitting on 50 gold and rerolling 25 times didn't get me the champion I wanted, this just felt unfair. It would be nice to have the option to pay a potentially high fee (25 for 2 star, 50 for 3 star?) to complete a champion if you are missing just one more.

This just highlights the skill ceiling of the game, you need to look at what your opponents have as there is a pool of a certain number of champions. So if your good enough you figure out what people have hold of / invested in and you can choose to hold units so they cant complete (your problem) or you can sell them and start investing into something else.

That being said i do agree about the number of items being RNG is wrong.

Dewott6106/29/2019, 12:20:13 AM3 votes

I did not know that the champion pool was limited

Rıots Bad Client6/28/2019, 11:16:11 PM2 votes

Out of the 3 minions fights at the start it should give you 3items.

And that could be random.

SO like Round one you may get one, second round none, and 3rd 2 items.

Vlada Cut6/28/2019, 11:02:03 PM2 votes

Make it so EVERYONE gets the same amount of items.

Power Cosmic6/29/2019, 4:33:00 PM1 votes

Even if you got rid of some RNG, it would just make the RNG still there matter more. Game is cool, and there is a lot of stuff, but you can't really take it too seriously.

Leetri6/28/2019, 10:03:31 PM1 votes

If you can't find the last champion it's because someone else has it. There's a finite number in the pool and that's shared by everyone, so don't build what everyone else is building if you want to 3-star them. I easily 3-stared my Graves, Pyke and Zed in my last game because no one else were going for them. That means you can also buy whatever your opponent is building to deny it from them.

ôoô6/29/2019, 12:49:42 AM1 votes

this game has more rng than hearthstone lmao. Id cringe if they made it into an esport.

Prestige Eve6/29/2019, 7:20:45 AM1 votes

Why can't we have a separate currency for items but the items in the "shop" we get between rounds are completely RNG themselves? We could have RNG dropped items on top of an RNG shop with a currency to buy from it. This way we wouldn't always have the same meta items and nobody would get completely shafted by starting the game, going all three minion rounds, and not dropping a single item to help them.

Nea1046/29/2019, 2:23:24 PM1 votes

It's intended to. Their aim is towards the mobile market, it's a casual random cheap game.

Just look at the lootbox stuff: it's evidently to milk some young kids.

Damocracy6/28/2019, 4:42:06 PM1 votes

Tokens to spend in the shop to buy the items you want for the champion build you are going. This also solves the build problem of item build info instead of me having to look at Scarra's cheat sheet all the time as the shop can tell what things build into.