Put the player you fight each round on a cycle instead of RNG

Unkn0wN·Jul 18, 2019·27 votes·9,974 views

I read the post about how you like the RNG items and are working on toning down the spectrum of variance for them and how having RNG item drops makes the game feel more meaningful. OK. Having random opponents does not fall under this same thought process. Making the opponent you face each round cycle around the board would allow for more skill to be involved in the positioning of units, what units to have on the board, and make the game overall more competitive, which is a good thing.

As it currently is especially when there is an odd number of players there will be times where I will get a phantom opponent 3-5+times in a row sometimes coming towards the final 5, which sure can be lucky for me but takes away from the actual gameplay VS my opponents who are in the game with me.

The order of the opponents doesn't matter so much as that it is cyclical and obvious who you will fight next so you can scope their board and plan for the fight. Can definitely make use of the nice Stage overlay at the top to indicate this.

I very much enjoy this game and am fine with RNG elements but I believe that by having a cyclical based opponent system would add more of the elements that you can only experience late game to the forefront, such as tactically arranging for a specific enemy and allow for more strategic and direct competition.

https://clips.twitch.tv/BoldSingleOwlYee 1 example of why it should be changed from the Twitch Rivals Tournament

19 Comments

ShadWoooJul 18, 20198 votes

I just had a game where 3 players were on a 9+ winstreak and I was one of them. Each of us sit on 50+ gold while playing against the same players again and again until we knocked them all out. Very balanced game indeed.

SubdueJul 18, 20194 votes

So, if you're the only one going assassins, rather than everyone needing to balance between protecting key champions while leaving others open because everyone else will be attacking from the front, now they just watch the rotation and move their tanks to the back when they face you, completely negating your strategy at no cost to their performance against anyone else?

Unkn0wNJul 18, 20196 votes

most people postion to counter assassins if possible currently anyway - see anyone with a corner camping strategy but yes I think plays like this are good as it forces you to be more versatile in the way you position and play against your opponents

SubdueJul 18, 20193 votes

{quoted}

most people postion to counter assassins if possible currently anyway - see anyone with a corner camping strategy but yes I think plays like this are good as it forces you to be more versatile if the way you position and play against your opponents

Right, and that makes sense because the assassins are often the biggest threat. However, if you know when you're going to face the assassin, you can optimize for the other compositions and then just reorganize when you are to face the assassins,drastically reducing their effectiveness without affecting your performance against other compositions.

Unkn0wNJul 18, 20192 votes

they can also arrange to focus fire one side of your composition too if they see you moving around or switch in a pocket blitzcrank or place all their assassins in front line in order to not jump at the start etc. this is the whole point to have positional counterplay and mind games between two people ina competitive game

ihateyouallmutedJul 19, 20193 votes

so you're saying it would ruin the game if you could use your tactics to teamfight?

We Are Venom336Jul 19, 20193 votes

that n it takes the tatical aspect into it imo, they have to spend time either lvling,picking champs or postioning for assassins/comps isntead of just postion comp one way till the top 4....... with 20s or w\e we get forget how much we get inbetween i thought it was 20 could be wrong but anywho, most wont be able to do all 3

Amuq the NativeJul 19, 20191 votes

Because it's cyclical doesn't mean it has to be predictable. The game can shuffle the order in which you'll face opponents, once every cycle. That way, only the last opponent in the cycle is predictable (because you went through all the others already), and tracking it requires effort. And even that could probably be mitigated.

SubdueJul 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Amuq the Native,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=UiQjMd6O,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-07-19T09:48:24.715+0000)

Because it's cyclical doesn't mean it has to be predictable. The game can shuffle the order in which you'll face opponents, once every cycle. That way, only the last opponent in the cycle is predictable (because you went through all the others already), and tracking it requires effort. And even that could probably be mitigated.

That means if you face the assassin team in the first round it you can ignore defending against assassins for the next 7 pvp rounds,which is basically the same issue.

Amuq the NativeJul 20, 20191 votes

Well, the only way to protect against that is to have a (weighted, probabilistic) randomized opponent at every turn, so at some point you'll have to involve the RNG. You can't have your cake, eat it, and screw the baker all at the same time.

Nea104Jul 19, 20193 votes

That is a serious RNG factor, and the main reason why this game is called "tactics" only as a joke: you DON'T know who are you gonna face, besides in the very final rounds.

So, the entire idea of "countering" (selecting and changing champs, items or positioning), it's totally denied.

NävëJul 19, 20192 votes

Thank you. I thought I was actually stupid. Tactic is a short-term strategy. Short meaning you're presented with a current/near future state and you need to find a solution. HOW could possibly be tactical gaming in a game that only gives macro problems (e.g. which champ comp am I gonna play this time?).

You should have at least the name of your next opponent visible and extra 10 seconds to change your formation for what you see was your enemies previous formation. That's about tactics.

Nea104Jul 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Thank you. I thought I was actually stupid. Tactic is a short-term strategy. Short meaning you're presented with a current/near future state and you need to find a solution. HOW could possibly be tactical gaming in a game that only gives macro problems (e.g. which champ comp am I gonna play this time?).

You should have at least the name of your next opponent visible and extra 10 seconds to change your formation for what you see was your enemies previous formation. That's about tactics.

Exactly, that's why people calling this cheap mode a "strategy game" are pretty funny. It's basically a card game: of course you can't play it blindfolded, but in the end you just have to get to the most busted composition as soon as possible; besides some minor management aspects (eg., gold management, who to discard etc.), it's about RNG.

"But this comp counters this other comp": and how do you know you're gonna face that precise comp? You don't, you can't.

"We are only 3 players left": yes, but you build your team far before, basically 5-10 rounds after the beginning, and even if you try to get some specific champs to counter other champs, this is about card drafting, ie. RNG.

PhDs NutsJul 19, 20193 votes

Just made a similar post. I like the cycle, but don't show it to the players, and change the cycle every time it's completed.

Don LongoJul 18, 20192 votes

I agree!

Teh SongJul 19, 20192 votes

I quite prefer the mind game of setting up your composition and placement for the match as a whole, instead of doing for each separate round. In fact, I'd say the former takes more strategic skill than the latter. As such, I would have to speak against this notion of putting the rounds on a foreseeable cycle. I do believe however, that you shouldn't find yourself fighting the same person twice in a row.

BreganJul 19, 20192 votes

not exactly "rotation" because that makes it too predictable and easy to counter position, but a better solution is to think of it like a bag of marbles. you reach into "bag #1" and randomly draw one to be your opponent. after the fight, that marble goes into "bag #2". you keep drawing from bag #1 until you've faced everybody (yes, the last fight will be predictable at that point, but so are the last fights of the end game, so whats the difference? not so bad a price to pay for fixing the repeat fight issue). then repeat the process. this way, the order is randomized, but you're never facing the same person too often in a row.

additionally/alternatively, just add a 3+ round timer to every fight that prevents you from facing that person again too soon, with the timer reducing in length as players get knocked out.

SidernarJul 20, 20192 votes

bump

i'm tired of losing to the same dude over and over when i know i can beat every other comp on the board. i get it that dude beats me. oh? lucky me, another lesson. i feel like a kid getting punished by an adult for something i don't quite understand but i know it hurts.

fucking fix it already riot... fucking morons running this shit. we gotta Buff bow which doesn't need it, so eat it on gameplay that matters.