Riot's reasons for designing broken and OP stuff never cease to amaze me!

Cräfty·Aug 1, 2019·26 votes·9,611 views

[TFT] Hextech Origin Details and Feedback Thread

I've made a thread talking about the newly revealed Hextech origin and how bad and unhealthy this trait design is. You can check out my opinion on it, here: Ruining in-game progression: Hextech origin, as if Cursed Blade wasn't enough!. But I'm not gonna talk about the trait itself here, but instead I'm gonna talk about one of the reasons that pushed Riot to come up with this horrible new origin. This is not speculative, this is actually what they said in their Feature Feedback section, on PBE (source linked to this thread):

We added the Hextech units for a few reasons:

To give some counter options to strong items. If you are losing to an RFC volibear, you can tech in some Hextech units and try to shut them down which can be devastating.
To expand on some of our existing traits. Having an early path to Blademaster through Camille, or Shapeshifter through Jayce opens up some early game options for example.
To add some new units with very specific purposes through their spells. Vi in particular is a great option and bursting down the back line carries which means comps and positioning need to change pretty dramatically. Jinx also opens up another late game carry option, so we don’t see Draven in every game.
Simply to expand our roster. Having more units and more possibilities changes the game, and also makes forcing specific options a bit harder. We think we’re getting close to the max count for a good set, so this will allow us to see the impact of adding 1 unit into every pool.

I actually agree with reasons N° 2, 3 and 4. They seem pretty reasonable and logical. Except they are not specific reasons that only apply to Hextech units, they can use the same reasons for when they reveal new traits, or units, and it will still makes sense, since these reasons are very general and can be applied to anything. But, I digress!

The 1st reason, however, is just... WOW! So let's see why I made this thread and why does this 1st reason bothers me so much.

To give some counter options to strong items...

So instead of nerfing said " strong " and broken items, like , your solution is to come up with a more " strong " and broken trait to counter them. WTF kinda logic is that?

...If you are losing to an RFC volibear, you can tech in some Hextech units and try to shut them down...

Which begs the question: --> Why not nerf RFC and/or Volibear in the 1st place, since you just admitted that you're aware of the fact that they are " strong " (as in " OP and broken ")?

Many people have been complaining about Volibear being able to apply on-hit effects with his ability. The Aoe stuns, the AoE silence, the AoE disarm, the AoE mana burn (Darkin Volibear), etc. It's just not fun and game breaking!

So instead of tackling the issue in question, you totally ignored it and created a bigger problem (Hextech) to deal with this current problem (OP items and Volibear's on-hit effect application). And the worst part is, you don't even realize the problem you just created! So let me explain the disaster that awaits us all and explain why some items, and the Hextech trait, are OP and need to go away. Here is a small example:

Let's say I build Rangers and I put and on my 3 star Vayne (or any ranger for that matter) in the hope that she carries me to victory. I get matched vs a player using Hextech units and Gunslingers. His jinx has , Hush and Sword Breaker, because Gunslingers, duh! Well guess what? BOOM! My frontline is gone, because they don't stand a chance vs Jinx's items. Both items on my vayne got disabled, now they're just offering the raw stats and nothing more, which is useless. Vayne gets shrunk, silenced but lucky for me not disarmed.

" NICE! I still have a chance, come on Vayne, you can do it! Oh! Wait! Why aren't you attacking faster? I gave you 2 items, no? " - as I think to myself. Well too bad... My carry is standing still, doing nothing but attacking at base speed because her items are irrelevant due to Hextech trait being in the game! So now I feel bad because I just lost a fight, after spending all my time trying to upgrade my Vayne to level 3 and stuffing her with items, only to lose vs a player who just negated all the progress that I've accomplished, with his 3 OP and broken items on Jinx and the Hextech trait!

I didn't lose to his team, I just lost to 3 OP items and a broken trait, that's it. The enemy comp could have been different every time, but as long as he has those 3 items and the Hextech trait, he will always win!

" _It's ok! I can still place top 4. My Vayne is 3 stars and got 2 good items that go well with her ability. Oh, wait! What is this? 3 other players are going Hextech too?! and they have Shrink as well? OMG... I guess I don't get to play the game, then... _" - as I tell myself, while hovering the cursor on the exit button.

...which can be devastating.

No sh*t, Sherlock!

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

37 Comments

ToadwartAug 1, 201911 votes

I could not agree more. Deal with the crazy overpowered items. Deal with the stacking of said items. Dont offer a band-aid for a problem that is a gushing chest wound.

ScramrailsAug 1, 20197 votes

Riot doubling down and actually creating far bigger problems for the future instead of just taking the time to fix issues right now? Wow, color me shocked.

BreganAug 1, 20192 votes

they've done this from the beginning. its why flash is still in the game. its basically mandatory, and a great deal of the game revolves around its existence.

Devilreaper XIIIAug 1, 20196 votes

i agree, they have always done this, not just this mode.

Garen is adoptedAug 1, 20195 votes

its funny because hextech teams will probably abuse items more than the teams they are against. I can alerdy imagine a control map deck with them and glacials, and put on voli or a gunslayer disarm shrink and silence. thats it, you completly fucked up the entire enemies.

FSRERAug 1, 20192 votes

Cause unlike the other teams, the balancing team is stupidly lazy.

Sire HippingtonAug 1, 20193 votes

designing new traits isn't the balance team, but the design team though, same for releasing overloaded kits like reworked irelia or reworked...anything really. Both the design and the balance team haven't show much brilliance in the last few years, and it seems like they don't work well together(or they do and are just the same kind of stupid...)

AyzevAug 1, 20191 votes

They don't just work together, they are the same team

RavenMagusAug 1, 20192 votes

I actually think people are making a bigger deal out of this than it really is.

If your opponent is going Hextech, they aren't going to also have whatever meta teamcomp is strong so easily. They are nullifying your items but they are giving up teamcomp bonuses of their own to do it.

Okay, 4 Hextech shuts down your items for a long time, sure. But they won't also have 6 glacial, or 6 demon, or 6 blademaster. They won't have 4 gunslinger + 4 hextech until late in the game, and you'll have your own 6 demon/glacial/whatever comp to fight them with.

You can add 2 hextech into your 6-comp later on, of course. But that likely means giving up a splash of 2 guardian or 2 phantom or something else like that.

Stop acting like Hextech is just going to be free shit you can add on. There will be an opportunity cost.

CräftyAug 1, 20193 votes

I don't care about how hard, or easy, it is to utilize Hextech units in your comps.

What I care about is the fact that disabling items in this game, when items is what wins you games (you can't win without items, no matter what comp you have), is allowed.

This is as stupid as, for example, Blizzard releasing a raid boss, in WoW, that has the mechanic to remove players' equipped items, during the fight. And let's not even talk about if he also disarms, silences and reduces the level of the players during the fight, as well. It's just a stupid concept and bad design, regardless of the game you implement these mechanics in.

Negating and ruining player progress for no reason is unhealthy for the game and unfun to play against. It's unfair, period!

It's simple logic!

RavenMagusAug 1, 20195 votes

You can apply that to many other comps.

Demons are unfair, they ruin your progress because you can't use spells with them around. Yordles are unfair, they ruin your progress because you can't use physical attacks with them around. Glacials are unfair, they ruin your progress because you can't do anything because your'e stunned to death. Phantoms are unfair, they ruin your progress because they instantly delete one of your units.

Everyone's already crying about Hextech and it's not even in the game. Personally it's just.. whatever? It's just another comp. It doesn't even feel that OP to me.

CräftyAug 1, 20192 votes

You can apply that to many other comps.

Indeed.

Demons are unfair, they ruin your progress because you can't use spells with them around.

Yep! And there is no counterplay, remember that! You can't build up mana from your AAs or them attacking you, since they'll most likely burn it all and deal true damage to you.

Yordles are unfair, they ruin your progress because you can't use physical attacks with them around.

Nope! Yordles can be countered by magic damage and items like item 3094 or item 3033 , for example. And since almost all units abilities are considered magic damage (unless stated otherwise in their tooltip) the counterplay margin is huge! Not only that, since even if yordles dodges AAs, they are still hitting the enemy. In this case, the enemy still can build up mana from getting hit and use his units abilities to counter the yordles. Not to mention that there are so many items that counter yordles as well.

Glacials are unfair, they ruin your progress because you can't do anything because your'e stunned to death.

Yep! And there is no counterplay, remember that! It only takes one Glacial proc and the fight is ruined for you, unless your stunned units are tanky enough to survive until they defreeze. But who are we kidding here? You're never getting out of the chain stun lock, you're petrified for life!

They should rename Glacials to Medusa's children or something, it's more fitting of a name, imo!

Phantoms are unfair, they ruin your progress because they instantly delete one of your units.

Yep! And there is no counter play, remember that! You can't position your units to counter phantom buff, and you can't itemize against it either. There aren't even any traits that counter it. That's why in one of my posts, I suggested that they change the buff to a X% HP, rather than 100 HP, as a temporary solution, until they rework the trait completely.

Everyone's already crying about Hextech and it's not even in the game. Personally it's just.. whatever?

Then why are you here, if it's just " whatever " for you? You're here defending it, so it's not " whatever ", you actually care! Be honest with yourself, at least.

It's just another comp. It doesn't even feel that OP to me.

If you can't understand something as simple as the fact that if you design a game with certain core mechanics (ex: items/traits), that constitute the core gameplay and win conditions for players to succeed in the game itself, but then just introduce other mechanics that, regardless of whether they're easy or hard to use, directly negate and prohibit you from utilizing all of said mechanics (thus, you can't win) and ruining your whole game progression that you spent so much time to make... then I can't help you.

[zombie-brand-clap]

SuphixAug 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Indeed.

Yep! And there is no counterplay, remember that! You can't build up mana from your AAs or them attacking you, since they'll most likely burn it all and deal true damage to you.

Nope! Yordles can be countered by magic damage and items like or , for example. And since almost all units abilities are considered magic damage (unless stated otherwise in their tooltip) the counterplay margin is huge! Not only that, since even if yordles dodges AAs, they are still hitting the enemy. In this case, the enemy still can build up mana from getting hit and use his units abilities to counter the yordles. Not to mention that there are so many items that counter yordles as well.

Yep! And there is no counterplay, remember that! It only takes one Glacial proc and the fight is ruined for you, unless your stunned units are tanky enough to survive until they defreeze. But who are we kidding here? You're never getting out of the chain stun lock, you're petrified for life!

They should rename Glacials to Medusa's children or something, it's more fitting of a name, imo!

Yep! And there is no counter play, remember that! You can't position your units to counter phantom buff, and you can't itemize against it either. There aren't even any traits that counter it. That's why in one of my posts, I suggested that they change the buff to a X% HP, rather than 100 HP, as a temporary solution, until they rework the trait completely.

Then why are you here, if it's just " whatever " for you? You're here defending it, so it's not " whatever ", you actually care! Be honest with yourself, at least.

If you can't understand something as simple as the fact that if you design a game with certain core mechanics (ex: items/traits), that constitute the core gameplay and win conditions for players to succeed in the game itself, but then just introduce other mechanics that, regardless of whether they're easy or hard to use, directly negate and prohibit you from utilizing all of said mechanics (thus, you can't win) and ruining your whole game progress that you spent so much time to make... then I can't help you.

[zombie-brand-clap]

I dont think he gets it, I just wouldnt bother replying

GojuAug 2, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Indeed.

Yep! And there is no counterplay, remember that! You can't build up mana from your AAs or them attacking you, since they'll most likely burn it all and deal true damage to you.

Nope! Yordles can be countered by magic damage and items like or , for example. And since almost all units abilities are considered magic damage (unless stated otherwise in their tooltip) the counterplay margin is huge! Not only that, since even if yordles dodges AAs, they are still hitting the enemy. In this case, the enemy still can build up mana from getting hit and use his units abilities to counter the yordles. Not to mention that there are so many items that counter yordles as well.

Yep! And there is no counterplay, remember that! It only takes one Glacial proc and the fight is ruined for you, unless your stunned units are tanky enough to survive until they defreeze. But who are we kidding here? You're never getting out of the chain stun lock, you're petrified for life!

They should rename Glacials to Medusa's children or something, it's more fitting of a name, imo!

Yep! And there is no counter play, remember that! You can't position your units to counter phantom buff, and you can't itemize against it either. There aren't even any traits that counter it. That's why in one of my posts, I suggested that they change the buff to a X% HP, rather than 100 HP, as a temporary solution, until they rework the trait completely.

Then why are you here, if it's just " whatever " for you? You're here defending it, so it's not " whatever ", you actually care! Be honest with yourself, at least.

If you can't understand something as simple as the fact that if you design a game with certain core mechanics (ex: items/traits), that constitute the core gameplay and win conditions for players to succeed in the game itself, but then just introduce other mechanics that, regardless of whether they're easy or hard to use, directly negate and prohibit you from utilizing all of said mechanics (thus, you can't win) and ruining your whole game progression that you spent so much time to make... then I can't help you.

[zombie-brand-clap]

This might get me some backlash .. but .. this is just a opinion - i want that said upfront and made clear.

**Demon's **- pain in the ass, but you can rely on units that do not use there ulti's -- or like Blitzcrank use it right away and rarely see it again **Yordle's **- you said it. Magic dmg and such still connects - and items like RFC ect. help **Glacial **- again pain in the outright backside - but you can beat a 6 Glacial team, no idea how , just swear i did- **Phantom **- This.. i agree 100% -- random guy goes to hell - end of story - 90% of the time its gonna hit someone you need, and its just a bad day in Boston.

But - and again a **OPINION ** - i find a lot of TFT is being very, very .. VERY fluid with your comp - you see someone building demons - you focus on your base attack units, you never use your ulti so you dont care. your mainstay is coming from the power of your auto's - so your items and units tend to reflect that. high dmg, high atk speed, people like Vayne Draven who's ability is not mana reliant - items that buff atk speed, and damage - it wont be easy, but it will be a fight at least..

In my mind.. and I am only Silver 1 - I like to think due to the fact I have the camera bug that I dont get to see positioning and such , making my largest enemy - my comp rolls sometimes between 2-3 comps - depending what i am seeing the "winning" teams build - because I cant look around, I have to memorize what comps ive seen what items are being built and what i can do to stop them. It does not always work - i agree - but it also means that there is "counterplay" just not "counterplay" like we are used to in league where X defeats Y -- this is more like .. he is going X, so you gotta get Y and Z because if Y fails, Z might help.

Every TFT game is a 50/50 -- 70/30 if your running the "meta" comps, and the meta items.. 80/20 if you have Pyke (Who it think is 3 times more broken then most of the items.. nothing like a 2 gold cost unit who can stun your entire team , and whats better is your team will literately walk into line for him to do so. saw a guy run 2 , silver tier pykes.. never went for the 3rd... why? because at 2.5 second stun, and your hitting 80% of there team with it.. twice , is better then a 3 second stun , once

Not to mention , and I have seen this a few times.. if you see someone getting outta hand , sacrifice your gold to buy some of there units. slow them down if you can, if you have a T2 Voli and a T1 voli, even if you are running yordles the odds that guy is getting his T3, are a bit less - yea, it took 12 gold outta your pocket. but it took a lot of wind outa his sails.

Anyhow.. Just a opinion - I do hope they fix some of the glaring problems with items - and champions Pyke --

But.. overall the mode is rather new - and they wanna fill a roster - give people more reasons to not rely on the same ole same ole i guess..

RavenMagusAug 2, 20192 votes

{quoted}

If you can't understand something as simple as the fact that if you design a game with certain core mechanics (ex: items/traits), that constitute the core gameplay and win conditions for players to succeed in the game itself, but then just introduce other mechanics that, regardless of whether they're easy or hard to use, directly negate and prohibit you from utilizing all of said mechanics (thus, you can't win) and ruining your whole game progression that you spent so much time to make... then I can't help you.

That is not a fact, that is your opinion.

Many games feature mechanics that deny other specific mechanics.

In fact, many such games would be stale if they did not.

Final Fantasy has powerful magic characters, but suddenly there is a boss that SIlences your party. Boom, core mechanic shut down. But you know what? Not the end of the world. You can adopt a new strategy.

Diablo 2 has enemies with Thorns auras. Or that are immune to specific elements. What do you do if you can only deal damage of that certain kind? Find a friend or build differently and adopt a different strategy.

Borderlands is all about shooting things in the head for major damage, but suddenly you face a creature that is heavily armored in the head and the weak spot is on its back. What do you do? Well, sure sucks if you're playing a dedicated sniper character, but other builds could deal with it a lot better.

And before you whine about 'taking it outside TFT', you're the one who generalized it to game design as a whole.

Your box is looking awfully small. Open your mind and broaden your perspective.

Also, I bet hextech synergy sucks.

CräftyAug 2, 20193 votes

The examples you named contradicts your own opinion, and here is why:

In all these games, when you get CC'd, or when faced with dealing with certain mechanics, you are still in charge of your character(s). You are still in control. You can adapt on the spot. You can move behind that target to shoot him in his weak spot. You can reactively move your cursor and shoot different spots on that heavy armored enemy. You can wait and come another time with a friend, with a better comp, because you're free to do so whenever you want, as long as you got the info 1st. There is always room for reactivity and adaptability because you control your character(s) on the battlefield and the fights last for minutes, if not hours!
But in TFT, however, your hands are tied and you're limited by so many things. You are not in control of your units. The fights play out automatically for you. The only control you have is to put what items on which units (and even then, once you do put them, you can't change your mind and relocate the items) and to position your units on the board to counter some specific team comps and units (and even then, this only becomes doable if you know 100% that you're getting matched vs said team comps with said units. That's why positioning, when all 8 players are up, is less important and less relevant than when 3 or 2 players are left).
Also, TFT PvP rounds lasts for 30 sec only. So many CC mechanics in the game lasts for 4 or 5 sec, on average. And considering that most fights don't even last the full 30 sec, maybe 15 sec (on average), those 5 sec CC constitute 33% of the fight! That's too damn much! Not to mention that all CC in TFT is chainable, which means you can permanently proc CC over and over again, multiple times in a row, thus permanently CCing the enemy for the whole fight! Which is dumb and stupid design!
If a boss fight, that lasts for minutes, have a silence mechanic that silences people for few seconds here and there, throughout the fight, that's not OP, that's fine. Because it happens only for few seconds, in a fight otherwise 10 to 15 mins long, if not more. Not to mention that in boss fights, you're in control of your character(s) and, depending on which game, you might have party members with you, also controlled by other people, who can help you if you're in trouble. In TFT, the fights are not in your control and nobody is gonna help you, you're on your own.

So, now, let me give you an example, with the most famous MMORPG out there, to illustrate what Riot did to TFT gameplay:

**--> **Imagine Blizzard releasing a raid boss, in WoW, that lasts 10 min. At pull, he has the ability to disable players' equipped items for the rest of the fight (and I'm being generous here, not targeting items in the bag as well). So now, they don't have any of their set bonuses active and they can't even use their active procs on items such as trinkets. But we're not done yet. This boss also has a 25% chance (per AA) to disarm and 50% chance (per AA) to silence players for 3 min (3 min is being generous here). He also has a 20% chance, per AA, to reduce the level of the players he hits, for the rest of the fight.

And I'm not even gonna mention abilities that mimic the Demon, Glacial and Phantom traits. You can imagine that by yourself.

And remember, in WoW, you control your character all the time, you don't simply put your character in the boss arena and then watch him battle the boss on autopilot. With that in mind, imagine how this all feels like, in TFT and all its RNG bullsh-t, when we're facing this raid boss every single game!

TL;DR: This is just a stupid concept and a very bad design of game mechanics, regardless of the game you implement these mechanics in.

And if, after all of this, you still think that you're right and I'm wrong, don't bother replying. Be happy with what you think is logical and I'll be happy with I think is logical. Because I feel like I've already answered all of the points that needed to be answered and anything further than this is just gonna end up being me repeating myself. So, yeah... Have a nice day!

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

iainB85Aug 1, 20192 votes

RavenMagus, my advice to you is to stop responding to this dude. He's on a ledge about this game and there is no talking him down.

They are still adjusting things like how long items are disabled and all kinds of details that make a huge difference, but the very idea of disabling an item and having a counter to decked out hyper carries is the end of the world and goes against everything he deems "good design" for this game.

It's hopeless.

SuphixAug 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

RavenMagus, my advice to you is to stop responding to this dude. He's on a ledge about this game and there is no talking him down.

They are still adjusting things like how long items are disabled and all kinds of details that make a huge difference, but the very idea of disabling an item and having a counter to decked out hyper carries is the end of the world and goes against everything he deems "good design" for this game.

It's hopeless.

Why are you replying to yourself on your smurf account? lol

RavenMagusAug 2, 20192 votes

You think that's my smurf? Are you really that desperate?

SuphixAug 2, 20191 votes

[deleted]

iainB85Aug 2, 20191 votes

You KNOW it is? Well prepare to feel stupid, a quick google search can show me posting on the League forums back in 2012 back when I was into the original League, ex: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1771216

Yeah, totally a smurf account. Not like I've had it nearly a decade.

SuphixAug 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You KNOW it is? Well prepare to feel stupid, a quick google search can show me posting on the League forums back in 2012 back when I was into the original League, ex: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1771216

Yeah, totally a smurf account. Not like I've had it nearly a decade.

You made several mistakes. In fact it was quite easy to discover you're the same person on two accounts. Unlucky.

RavenMagusAug 2, 20192 votes

I don't have any smurf accounts. If you'd wish to continue to believe that just to make yourself feel better, then by all means. More power to you.

FakeGravityAug 1, 20192 votes

some items are just too strong, but i feel it is like ezreal/lucian/ganplank balance issue in Summoners rift, any on hit item have to think "is this broken on ezreal or lucian or ganplank Q?" because of their ability to double apply, apply from a distance or apply melee effects

in TFT is about gunslingers, if a draven be targeting my frontline with silences,disarms and shrink, well ok it is one target at a time the rest of my team can still fight at least, but spreading those effects around so often it is too much

SuphixAug 1, 20192 votes

How can you justify Hextech units in a game that is ultimately defined by RNG? You can't control what the shop offers you, nor item drops. You can't control ridiculous unit AI.

The three things you have ANY control over are unit positioning, choosing which units you can work towards levelling up, and choosing which unit you will itemise (with likely your 1 and a half items). The 'Tactics' in Teamfight Tactics. But then you go and add Cursed Blade and now this which is ultimately someone deciding "Ok, I get to play the game today, you don't."

You are taking conscious steps to remove what VERY LITTLE control the player has and load it all into antifun RNG. I'm genuinely curious, do the TFT designers even play TFT? How do you think this is ok, honestly? Why are Cursed Blade and Hextech allowed to exist? I honestly would like to know how you think this is justifiable and what's more, why it seems to be important to remove the Tactics element from Teamfight Tactics at all costs? At this point just start making the units go in set places on the board to remove tactical input altogether. Although you've added Vi now which is halfway to "%%%% positioning".

Absolutely shocking.

ErdoS Is HereAug 1, 20191 votes

It's weird you make posts complaining about RNG, but then also complain about undoing RNG (items) by creating the hextech class. You can make the argument that almost any comp, class, whatever, can be OP with good rolls and items, that's the game.

CräftyAug 1, 20192 votes

I never complained about undoing RNG.

FYI, the Hextech origin does not undo RNG. It just disables any items on the board that the enemy already have. It's like someone taking your clothes off of you. How is that undoing RNG? And btw, there is a bug on PBE atm that lets Hex units destroy the disabled items completely (gone from the unit). So that looks fun...

The RNG happened long time ago when the enemy got his items in the 1st place. Once, he combined his items (that he got by RNG) and equipped them to his units, that's not RNG anymore. That's his choice, his decision. The items are his, now. He has the right to utilize them. Actually, he needs to utilize them if he wanna win.

Now tell me, how is disabling the items is fixing the RNG problem, hein?

Please don't throw out a weakass argument in such discussions and claim things you can't prove! Unless you have proof, in which case you're more than welcome to explain your opinion and debate!

Thanks.

ErdoS Is HereAug 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I never complained about undoing RNG.

FYI, the Hextech origin does not undo RNG. It just disables any items on the board that the enemy already have. It's like someone taking your clothes off of you. How is that undoing RNG? And btw, there is a bug on PBE atm that lets Hex units destroy the disabled items completely (gone from the unit). So that looks fun...

The RNG happened long time ago when the enemy got his items in the 1st place. Once, he combined his items (that he got by RNG) and equipped them to his units, that's not RNG anymore. That's his choice, his decision. The items are his, now. He has the right to utilize them. Actually, he needs to utilize them if he wanna win.

Now tell me, how is disabling the items is fixing the RNG problem, hein?

Please don't throw out a weakass argument in such discussions and claim things you can't prove! Unless you have proof, in which case you're more than welcome to explain your opinion and debate!

Thanks.

I made a very simple, obvious point, somehow you either can't comprehend the point or are too frustrated to see or admit. Either way, I'm flabbergasted and laughing.

Item drops are random > remove that portion of random by having Hextech. AKA "undoing RNG" (no not all RNG, obviously) Simple point, no?

CräftyAug 2, 20191 votes

Item drops are random > remove that portion of random by having Hextech. Simple point, no?

What you're saying is this:

You got 5 items, I got 2 items (because RNG) ---> You have Hextech, I don't ----> We're matched vs each other ----> My only 2 items get disabled ----> Now, you have 5 items, I have NONE -----> Congratulations, You solved my RNG problem, GJ! I feel better now that you removed randomness from the game by removing my only saving grace in this game.

HOORAY!!! Now there is less RNG, because you, or your enemies, don't get to play the game as it is intended to be played.

It's a reverse Oprah effect: You don't get to use items, you don't get to use them either, you too... Everybody don't get to use their items! YAY! :D

Please stop typing @ErdoS Is Here, your abnormal lack of common sense and logic is getting too cringy to watch by this point... Just, stop typing, mate!

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

ErdoS Is HereAug 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Simple point, no?

What you're saying is this:

You got 5 items, I got 2 items (because RNG) ---> You have Hextech, I don't ----> We're matched vs each other ----> My only 2 items get disabled ----> Now, you have 5 items, I have NONE -----> Congratulations, You solved my RNG problem, GJ! I feel better now that you removed randomness from the game by removing my only saving grace in this game.

HOORAY!!! Now there is less RNG, because you, or your enemies, don't get to play the game as it is intended to be played.

It's a reverse Oprah effect: You don't get to use items, you don't get to use them either, you too... Everybody don't get to use their items! YAY! :D

Please stop typing @ErdoS Is Here, your abnormal lack of common sense and logic is getting too cringy to watch by this point... Just, stop typing, mate!

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Hextech is best used against those with items, and less efficient against those lacking items. How do you not get that? It's hard for me to believe you genuinely think your example portrays my point. You're not that dense... right? I hope? I have faith in you, for now.

CräftyAug 2, 20191 votes

Hextech is best used against those with items, and less efficient against those lacking items.

So basically, you're saying that taking away from the poor doesn't matter as much as taking away from the rich.

If I take away a million dollar from a rich man, you think I hurted him? Of course not, he's already established his wealth (the rich player already established a healthy HP lead) and invested in so many things that will give him back that money and some more (the rich player already invested in his units and got what he needed, the items are just a bonus power by this point. He's got his win streak to even give him more gold. Taking away his items won't hurt him as much since his lineup is solid already thanks to the lead he got from winning fights due to his item advantage against players with no Hextech trait active on board).
If I take away 1000$ from a poor guy, however, he's doomed. He doesn't have much to begin with and I just took away all he's got. The player, in this instance, already doesn't have much items to begin with, so he's gonna lose more than others, who got item advantage on him, thus falling behind. And now he even has unit disadvantage too, since he's losing (no wins, not enough economy to buy units). He might get back into the game if he get that 1 or 2 items from the next PvE round. He finally gets them. But then, he gets matched vs me, who already have a lead on him (itemization wise and HP wise), and suddenly, I disable all his items (I rob him of all his possessions, as few as they are). Yeah, you're right, it won't affect him that much, he's just gonna get demolished and lose the game, and that's it. No biggy, I guess...

How do you not get that? It's hard for me to believe you genuinely think your example portrays my point. You're not that dense... right? I hope? I have faith in you, for now.

I gently redirect your own words to you, sir.

ErdoS Is HereAug 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So basically, you're saying that taking away from the poor doesn't matter as much as taking away from the rich.

If I take away a million dollar from a rich man, you think I hurted him? Of course not, he's already established his wealth (the rich player already established a healthy HP lead) and invested in so many things that will give him back that money and some more (the rich player already invested in his units and got what he needed, the items are just a bonus power by this point. He's got his win streak to even give him more gold. Taking away his items won't hurt him as much since his lineup is solid already thanks to the lead he got from winning fights due to his item advantage against players with no Hextech trait active on board).

If I take away 1000$ from a poor guy, however, he's doomed. He doesn't have much to begin with and I just took away all he's got. The player, in this instance, already doesn't have much items to begin with, so he's gonna lose more than others, who got item advantage on him, thus falling behind. And now he even has unit disadvantage too, since he's losing (no wins, not enough economy to buy units). He might get back into the game if he get that 1 or 2 items from the next PvE round. He finally gets them. But then, he gets matched vs me, who already have a lead on him (itemization wise and HP wise), and suddenly, I disable all his items (I rob him of all his possessions, as few as they are). Yeah, you're right, it won't affect him that much, he's just gonna get demolished and lose the game, and that's it. No biggy, I guess...

I gently redirect your own words to you, sir. Hey now, if you don't use your own words for a comeback you just show you're not clever. But that's consistent with everything you've said so I guess status quo there.

You lost at "basically you're saying." You seem to be a big fan of the strawman fallacy. Maybe brush up on logical fallacies. I'll also plead to Occam's razor here.

Nevertheless, against my better judgment, I still read on. So, your argument is neither... A) Relevent, you're not addressing my point (that Hextech undoes the luck of getting items. It literally does, it's in the description, I still don't get how you're debating this.)

B) Valid (the argument that taking away items from the top player cannot be impactful is false. Sometimes it will be, sometimes it won't. "hasty generalization" right there, another fallacy for ya)

You also commit false analogy/moral equivalence with this whole poor man thing.

You also go back on your own claim that propogated this post, of how this is OP, by now saying it's not OP enough to ruin the top player. Don't sell out man, stick to your guts!

Can we be done now? I'm not enjoying this keyboard warrior lifestyle like you do.

(Fun sidenote, today some lady made a post making fun of a scammer "offering 10000$", saying there's no way the scammer has any money because he can't even put the $ sign on the correct side)

CräftyAug 3, 20191 votes

You lost at "basically you're saying." You seem to be a big fan of the strawman fallacy. Maybe brush up on logical fallacies. I'll also plead to Occam's razor here.

You're trying so hard to look smart, that you're looking like a fool, mate. I didn't distort any of your arguments, any person with a brain would notice that, on the first read.

Nevertheless, against my better judgment, I still read on. So, your argument is neither... A) Relevent, you're not addressing my point (that Hextech undoes the luck of getting items. It literally does, it's in the description, I still don't get how you're debating this.)

B) Valid (the argument that taking away items from the top player cannot be impactful is false. Sometimes it will be, sometimes it won't. "hasty generalization" right there, another fallacy for ya)

You also commit false analogy/moral equivalence with this whole poor man thing.

I addressed your points one by one in a very objective and logical manner. I specifically used the rich and poor analogy to make it even simpler to understand and to explain how illogical your thought process is. If you can't understand my arguments, that doesn't' make them irrelevant or invalid. That just makes you incapable of logical reasoning, plain and simple. Any person with some common sense would have understood already.

You also go back on your own claim that propogated this post, of how this is OP, by now saying it's not OP enough to ruin the top player. Don't sell out man, stick to your guts!

Who's a big fan of the strawman fallacy now, hein?

I never said that Hextech is not OP enough to ruin Top player. I said that Hextech still affects both parties in an unfair manner but it's more unfair against the poor player than the one who got himself a lead (thanks to his item/unit advantage) BEFORE facing hextech units.

Anyone with an inch of logical reasoning would have understood that easily (as a matter of fact, many did understand and agree with me, and that's why so many people upvoted the thread in the 1st place).

Can we be done now?

Oh please, be my guest! I'm tired of repeating myself to people with no common sense anyway.

[zombie-brand-clap]

ErdoS Is HereAug 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You're trying so hard to look smart, that you're looking like a fool, mate. I didn't distort any of your arguments, any person with a brain would notice that, on the first read. A) Relevent, you're not addressing my point (that Hextech undoes the luck of getting items. It literally does, it's in the description, I still don't get how you're debating this.) B) Valid (the argument that taking away items from the top player cannot be impactful is false. Sometimes it will be, sometimes it won't. "hasty generalization" right there, another fallacy for ya) You also commit false analogy/moral equivalence with this whole poor man thing.

I addressed your points one by one in a very objective and logical manner. I specifically used the rich and poor analogy to make it even simpler to understand and to explain how illogical your thought process is. If you can't understand my arguments, that doesn't' make them irrelevant or invalid. That just makes you incapable of logical reasoning, plain and simple. Any person with some common sense would have understood already.

Who's a big fan of the strawman fallacy now, hein?

I never said that Hextech is not OP enough to ruin Top player. I said that Hextech still affects both parties in an unfair manner but it's more unfair against the poor player than the one who got himself a lead (thanks to his item/unit advantage) BEFORE facing hextech units.

Anyone with an inch of logical reasoning would have understood that easily (as a matter of fact, many did understand and agree with me, and that's why so many people upvoted the thread in the 1st place).

Oh please, be my guest! I'm tired of repeating myself to people with no common sense anyway.

[zombie-brand-clap]

It's too bad that saying you succeeded doesn't mean you actually succeeded, huh. You do that a lot. Now you're just deflecting, attacking, etc.

You seem like the kind of person that needs things spelled out, so let me help you even more. I understood your argument, AND they are invalid and irrelevant because of said reasons. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Let me know when you're ready to speak logically, rather than just claim logic, attack, repeat.

Pika FoxAug 2, 20191 votes

Its called HAVING OPTIONS AND STRATEGY. Jesus fuck you people are hopeless.

Light of MadnessAug 2, 20191 votes

hextech is dumb........ I just saw a video. I was hoping riot changed but nah, waste of time play any riot games.

Riot: " Hey we have this new mode that is important to use tactics, but almost everything is random! " " Wait wait... we also have a system, item system! but you can't really enjoy because the drop is not good! ... o wait? The items are strong? ok! Lets make a debuff that remove them! GREAT! PEOPLE WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT ITEMS REMOVING ABILITY TO ATTACK AND SPELLS, REMOVE ALL MY UPGRADE BUT WE WILL DO A NEW CLASS THAT REMOVE THE ITEMS! PROBLEM SOLVED! UNLUCKY WITH ITEMS? REMOVE FROM YOUR ENEMY! NOW NOBODY USES THE ITEM SYSTEM!

OMG RIOT YOUR BALANCE TEAM IS LAAAAAAAAAAZY!

I stopped playing 2 weeks ago and now I won't even look the news, jesus... just gets worse.