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Summoners comps are problematic and this is my suggestion on how to balance them.

Cräfty··2 votes·946 views

Summoners, most often, flood the board with a huge number of units that take aggro, and take forever to kill, even with AoE. Even more problematic, the fact that summoned units stay indefinitely on the board until they're killed (except Zyra's plants and Azir's soldiers, which also are untargetable). So, even if you manage to kill all Summoners on the board, their minions can still lose you the round, even after fighting them for long.

Only Berserkers really can win against Summoner consistently enough. Every other comp struggles a lot.

Here is my suggestion on how to balance Summoners and tackle the " spammable summoning " aspect of it:

  • During each round, increase their Max Mana by X value each time they summon units. This only lasts for each round separately and resets to normal Max Mana Values at the start of each round.

To illustrate what I mean, I'm gonna use Malzahar as an example:

  • His max mana is 125.
  • If he summons units (1st spell cast), his max mana goes from 125 to 135 (+10).
  • If he summons units again, his Max Man goes from 135 to 145 (+10).
  • etc.
  • At the start of the next round, his max mana return to 125.

The actual added amount to the max mana is, of course, debatable. I used " +10 " just as an example to illustrate my idea. It could be less or it could be more.

So, what does increasing the max mana values on Summoners do, in terms of balancing the trait itself?

  1. It delays the next wave spawn by a bit, each time, giving the enemy a fair shot at actually clearing some of the summoned units, since most of them are permanent during the fight. Because, right now, Summoners invoke so many minions that it's almost impossible to clear most of them before the next wave arrive. It's like a boss rush, if you know what I mean...

  2. It counters the fact that people usually build mana items on the most problematic Summoners, i.e. Zyra, Malzahar and Zed. This will keep this type of build in check and makes it more fair to play against and somehow manageable. Because, right now, If you face these units with Seraph's Embrace and/or Spear of Shojin, it just feels so hopeless and it's so unfairly frustrating to play against. Not to mention the fact that, unless you're playing a good Berserkers comp, you'll most likely lose to Summoners, late game, guaranteed.

  3. It will soft nerf the most broken comp in the game: Shadow/Mage + Summoners. Not only the board becomes a swarm of minions (literally, there are more minions than champions on the board), but, on top of that, they can be summoned twice in a single cast (twice the nightmare) and/or have increased damage, as well (because, fuck you, I guess!). Of course, using my example, If Summoners invoke their minions twice due to Mage buff, they should get twice the Max Mana increase, as well (+20 for each cast buffed with Mage, in this case).

So, yeah... that's my suggestion.

Keep in mind that I'm not a game designer and, by no means, would I ever assume that I know better than the actual Devs. But, I think that the basic idea of how to balance Summoners, without really gutting them, is there. My reasoning might be flawed, sure, and I might've neglected something important that I missed. But, I believe this might be a start.

Afterall, I'm only writing this because I love TFT and I just wanna have a better gameplay experience in my games. And right now, Summoners are quite the problem, imho, and they take away a good portion of my fun.

Peace!

10 Comments

CharDeeMcDenniz2 votes

i havent seen summoners win a game since week 1 of set 2s release

they get crushed by mages, berserkers, preds, glacials, desert, poison

basically everyone, they are a mid-tier comp at best

Stephenizgod1 votes

Summoners are not problematic, they suck to play against, but they aren't overpowered. Malzahar is the only one who is a problem, but his power does not lie in how strong his Voidlings are. His power lies in his ability to fuck with the aggro and targeting of your units, once he starts spawning voidlings the game becomes 50/50 whether your units will just start focusing the voidlings or their actual units. It is so frustrating seeing 3 of your units ganging up on 2 Voidlings while their team reams you for free. There needs to be serious changes to how targeting AI works in TFT when there are a bunch of Summons on the field. Its too inconsistent, Malzahar feels so bad to play against.

Cräfty1 votes

That why I suggested the increase of Max Mana per cast. It helps limit the spamability of voidlings that gets out of hand really fast.

Stephenizgod1 votes

It isn't the spamming Voidlings or minions that annoys me, its that my units spend 90% of the fight only attacking the Summons. If they changed how targeting worked so your units didn't automatically focus only the Voidlings, Summoners would be less of a problem. Also its bullshit that even if you kill all their units you can still lose if their summons are still up. That needs to be removed, I don't know why that was ever added in the first place.

Sir Inugami1 votes

Malz is far from the only problem and they are problematic.

Malzahar with Mage Cap + Mages = broken Annie with Mage Cap + Mages = broken Zyra with Mage Cap + Mages = broken

Even without the mage cap they become obscene in the late game and are only counterable currently by two things; Brand/Ocean/Mage or Olaf/Glacial/Berserker. Death Blade could work but Sivir is all it works on against Summoners and Sivir is REALLY bad - like worst 3-Cost and worst Ranged by far.

I fully expect that once Olaf's nerfs come as they will, that Summoners will be the next hot OP thing.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Malz is the only Summoner who is a problem by himself, that is what I meant. Yorick and Annie both require a solid team around them before they become truly busted (Yorick with a Light team or Summoner comp, Annie with Summoner or Mage comp or even an Inferno comp). All Summoners with the exception of Zyra are too strong right now, but Malzahar as a single unit is way too strong within the Summoners.

Those are all a problem with Mage-cap not those champions, Mages in general are just broken... Level 3 Veigar with Seraphs? Broken. Brand with Shojin+Hurricane? Broken. Mage-cap on Annie makes her busted, but by herself she isn't that difficult. Not until you get her in a Summoner Mage comp (even without mage-cap). Zyra with Mage-cap is more annoying than broken in my opinion.

Olaf needs nerfs, Poison needs nerfs, Mage-cap needs to be removed, Glacial needs nerfs, Mages need nerfs, Summoners need nerfs.

This game has turned into Ocean/Mage vs Glacial/Poison vs Summoner/Mage vs Predator/Poison/Glacial (assuming they don't switch into Glacial/Poison) those are like the only viable comps now. They each counter the other and destroy all other comps. Getting real boring.

CharDeeMcDenniz1 votes

light is still plenty viable, blademasters are fine, I watched scarra get top 3/4 with warden/electric in high elo games 3 times in a row

so yeah there are plenty of options

Stephenizgod1 votes

I am talking about the meta, not about what you can win with. You can win with any comp depending on the lobby, but those comps I mentioned are what is meta. You see them every game, and majority of the time one of them wins and the rest finish top 3

Sir Inugami1 votes

I'm in agreement with you as are many others. The only reason Summoners aren't currently talked about more is 1.) Olaf and 2.) They're a late game comp.

IMO these are the two changes Riot should make to keep them viable but not overpowered as they currently are;

  • Summons no longer have Health and are no longer targetable, changed to Duration.
  • Summons now die when the Summoner dies.
  • Summoners Trait changed to Damage +25%/+50% from Health +50%/+100%.
PhearBunny1 votes

Summoners arent a problem though? Theyre probably the most balanced comp that there is, lol.

the only time Summoner is even strong enough to keep up, is if you have a Zyra stacked with Mana generation and a Mage spatula. And even then...most comps are better.

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