Re: [AMA] We're the Maps team, let's talk TT

Well, thanks for finally having this long overdue discussion. Though it somehow speaks worlds that you refuse to use your own Boards for sth. as important as finally fixing an entire map. But well, that get onto it: Here are the initiating Questions from RiotJxE

Hey all,

We're the Maps team, we're going to be making some minor visual updates to TT (new minions, nexus etc.) similar to what we did on Howling Abyss and have the opportunity to make some minor gameplay modifications to TT to improve the mode.

We wanted to chat with you guys first to hear your thoughts about TT and what you believe some of the problems are.

Why do you guys like TT?

Why play TT over other Maps?

What don't you like about TT?

If we could make one in-game change to make TT better what could we do?

What are your thoughts on Vilemaw?

What are your thoughts on the Altars?

What are your thoughts on the Jungle?

What are your thoughts on Towers?

I'm gonna set expectations immediately and let you know we're not going to be making any major platform changes (e.g. no ranked solo queue for now) We are looking to see what in-game improvements we can modify to make your experience better while keeping what you all love about TT.

and here´s some kind of preliminary results:

Hey guys! A few of us have been talking about the state of TT for a bit now and have identified what we feel are a few core issues with mechanics on the map. I'll list a few of them out to share where we're at in our thought processes on where improvements can be made.

Jungle: As many of you have pointed out, jungle is super risky in the early levels and is generally considered weaker at the moment than the support meta. One of the issues here is the amount of experience granted during the first clear, which usually leaves the jungler at low health and in a vulnerable position.

Altars: The altars on Twisted Treeline serve the purpose of creating contested neutral objectives for teams to fight over. We've identified a few issues with the current implementation that we're taking a look at, though. One of the strongest aspects of altars at the moment is increased gold generation, which is a lot of hidden power and it really sucks to be denied that strength when you aren't in a position to protect at least one of the altars. The 10% stat buff is also a bit difficult to appreciate since it's all math and doesn't really change how you play the game. Percentage based stat buffs are also very weak in the early game since increasing a small number by a percentage of itself is underwhelming, so there's not a strong reason to contest the enemy altar early on other than gold denial. Finally, capturing altars isn't exactly an exciting experience as you sit there for a few seconds waiting for a bar to fill up, and if that bar doesn't fill all the way then you get nothing at all for your time.

Vilemaw Buff: Same issue with the altar buff listed above. Lots of power that's difficult to appreciate for both the players with the buff and for the enemy team. Vilemaw should be seen as a way for a leading team to close out the game, or for a losing team to make a comeback. Neither of these events are really occurring with the current implementation, since it doesn't change how you approach playing the map any more than a bit of extra gold would.

General Lack of Comeback Potential: Currently, if you're behind in a Twisted Treeline game, the general hope is that the enemy team makes a mistake and allows you an opportunity to come back. A coordinated team with a lead is difficult to handle, as they're able to move together around the map and push down objectives due to the smaller size of the gameplay space. It's rare to find opportunities to trade objectives due to how quickly the enemy can get to you and punish, as well as due to the fact that there's a much smaller number of objectives overall compared to Summoner's Rift (towers, altars, and Vilemaw are pretty much it, not to mention altars and Vilemaw aren't always available). It's also very difficult to farm when behind since there's a pretty large distance between the towers and where minions meet, with a lot of scary gank paths for enemies to flank.

Overall, we want to maintain the same fast and combat oriented nature of Twisted Treeline while addressing some of these concerns in healthy ways. If you guys disagree with these concerns or have any more to add, please do! We're here to talk because TT has a dedicated player base with a lot of untapped knowledge that we want to hear!

I just want to chip in on some of that:

• I think there´s creat agreement on the fact that the map currently is way too snowbally, if equal skilled opponents meet each other it´s pretty much over within the first 10minutes usually, as there simply wonßt be a comeback after the first mistake. This is largly due to one factor: -> turrets fall way to fast, so there´s no fall-back-zone once you fall behind to even farm anymore - you just can´t go anywhere to keep up. Having sth. like basegates in TTT to grant somewhat save access to at least the own jungle would help out huge i think + turrets should overall provide a little more protection. Sure, the gamemode should be a little more fast paced - but you can pretty much ignore them from lvl 3+ on if you have a numbers advantage and destroy them with just 1 wave of minions even before reaching lvl 6 currently.

• another huge problem is that having a jungler is a real setback early on, and will cost you many games vs experienced team - as there´s no way to deny their invade and defend the first altar if they play correctly. the jungle just doesn´t grant enough xp and hits to hard. This had been a lot better balanced back when the T2-jungle-item had been available from the get go and people started with two charges of smite.

• there are still no jungle-animations and the minions feature the old model, i think they deserve the same treatment as they got on SR

• Dominion still is a great gamemode with huge potential, maybe you should recognize it aswell while you´re at it, it really deserves some love