Don't Ignore Twisted Treeline

Sire Hippington·Feb 3, 2015·8 votes·1,495 views

This is not a complain about the lack of map-specific champion changes that actually would be nice, it's more about the bad impact manny of your overall changes to SR have on other maps, especially TT.

The latest changes to Jungleitems once again accidentally destroyed balance for 3v3. It seems like you either have no idea what your changes do to other maps than Summoners Rift or you simply don't care. With the price increase on machete-upgrades it's no more possible to start with an upgrade in TT. This means not only lacking the better sustain/damage vs creeps and a better smite, but also not haveing 2 charges for simte. Right now, doulanes are much stronger than junglers in TT as they can easily bully out the enemy jungler befor he even finishes the first clear. Prettymuch every viable setup is now all-in support+snowbally melee(like braum+Xin) or a normal support+adc duolane with a mage like Liss or Ahri on the sololane. Besides maybe champion specific changes, we definitely need a viable jungle in TT to atleast have some varity amongst viable comps.

9 Comments

RebonackFeb 3, 20154 votes

Will Riot expend the effort needed to improve maps other than Rift?

See you on the Rift!

Probably not.

I feel for you guys, I really do. I don't play Treeline, but I know how awful it is when the impact of changes aren't considered for other maps. Fixing this issue would be as simple as making a Treeline-only version of the T2 jungle items for 100 gold less. Just set it up so the Machette itself doesn't even exist on Treeline. Problem solved, right?

That would take, what.

Half an hour of coding?

Maybe?

kn1820Feb 4, 20151 votes

Eh... 15 minutes. Depending on the amount of people working on the code...

FarRockBFFeb 4, 20152 votes

Made this same exact post this morning. It's pissing me off.

mvargusFeb 3, 20151 votes

I'd just like some time spent working out some new or improved maps. One of the things I'm seeing is that the Meta has definitely stagnated quite a bit. I just don't see the level of diversity I'd love to see when it comes to strategies. Just about every game will play out the same. A few minutes of mostly static farming while everyone tries to level champs. Then depending on where a team has a lead slowly increased pressure is brought in the hopes of pushing the other team out of a lane. After that grab dragon and press the advantage.

Other than counter jungling there is no real tactical play. The towers are strong enough to freeze a team early so unless you want to counter jungle there is little opportunity to stage a blitz raid to net an inner turret or other valuable target. The size of the map also drives teams closer together quickly so skirmishes in mid-game either turn into 5v5 team fights or one team will break off quickly. You won't see many flanking actions where a team skips in from many different directions very often. It's all about gather and smash.

Twisted Treeline is a great example of the problem. The 2 lanes are so close any champ can run between to help. The 2v1 split works, but a fast support can switch sides easily if they plan ahead and I agree a jungler is doomed as the 2v1 lane will take out the laner and then hunt down the jungler.

Not sure how to solve it. Riot appears to light tight maps with only a minimal area to maneuver, so the easiest solution of spreading the map out to give the jungler more space to move in and make it tougher to isolate/gank him does not appear to be something they want.

ValyrianBladeFeb 3, 20151 votes

This is an insightful post.

I just want to comment on the "flanking" comment. I'm not sure how much I agree with it is all... I think flanking works great (amazingly) when you're slightly ahead or when you're staging what looks like a 3v3 or 4v4 fight and after kills are traded equally your remaining teammate flanks in and cleans up the rest of the fight (securing kills you otherwise couldn't get).

Flanking doesn't work when it's a 5v5 and you're roughly even. I don't think this is the maps fault at all. It simply happens because the team that's grouped as 5 in the middle can choose rush towards one direction and start a fight 5v2 or 5v3 before the allies can get in for the flank. A great example of this is when blue team is organized for Dragon and red is trying to get in to contest it. If red all comes in from the same direction, you have a standard 5v5 fight where neither team has an advantage. If Red comes in half from mid lane and half from bot lane (or half from the jungle path in between), Blue just chooses the squishier half and rushes to that side to start the fight with a numbers advantage and take a significant lead before the rest arrive (meaning they'll win the fight pretty easily). This is why it's so important to have your team enter an objective contest together rather than separate. The number of times I've pinged for help at Dragon when entering from the jungle, only to have my squishy mid laner and adc enter from mid lane and get rushed by the other team when no peel is with them, is ludicrous. That isn't flanking though, it's just poor positioning.

Flanking would be a 4v4 fight in mid lane when the top laner runs in through the jungle and cuts off the adc and apc from behind as they try to escape. I've seen this done and it works a huge majority of the time.

MotherChurchFeb 3, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=LFfTlAky,discussion-id=ukthAi7N,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-02-03T17:03:46.254+0000)

This is not a complain about the lack of map-specific champion changes that actually would be nice, it's more about the bad impact manny of your overall changes to SR have on other maps, especially TT.

The latest changes to Jungleitems once again accidentally destroyed balance for 3v3. It seems like you either have no idea what your changes do to other maps than Summoners Rift or you simply don't care. With the price increase on machete-upgrades it's no more possible to start with an upgrade in TT. This means not only lacking the better sustain/damage vs creeps and a better smite, but also not haveing 2 charges for simte. Right now, doulanes are much stronger than junglers in TT as they can easily bully out the enemy jungler befor he even finishes the first clear. Prettymuch every viable setup is now all-in support+snowbally melee(like braum+Xin) or a normal support+adc duolane with a mage like Liss or Ahri on the sololane. Besides maybe champion specific changes, we definitely need a viable jungle in TT to atleast have some varity amongst viable comps.

I hope they continue supporting treeline. I don't think they need to have champion specific changes, they just need to think about item, tower, and jungle changes.

I have always like Treeline and it is the only place to play competitively with 2 friends. If anything I would love to see Riot step up in their support for an awesome game-mode ( I would love to see some limited warding capability on TT, even allowing 1 ward per team).

SaKRaaNFeb 3, 20151 votes

I hope they fix twisted treeline soon . its a small map and it should have special items for its self . the matches in twisted treeline should be for 15 mins to 35 . now it reach 50 to 60 _ ....

FDruFeb 4, 20151 votes

I don't know if it's really lowering the available strategies, since without dedicated junglers then hard pushing becomes viable. You can then intermittently farm jungle while lanes are pushed.

Sire HippingtonFeb 4, 20151 votes

Hard push and doulanes were already viable befor. It's just dedicated Junglers becoming unviable now, as their clearspeed and sustain in the early is drastically lower than befor the patch. So no new strategies that weren't viable befor are added, but some strategies that were voable befor suck now -> less deversity.