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KEEP URF MODE. (Reasons and arguments inside)!

Absolute0Chaos··8 votes·1,278 views
League Of Legends Should Keep Its Ridiculous April Fool's Joke Going

Riot, you have made arguments and reasons why you can't keep URF forever.

Here are some counter-arguments (source is in the link):

Dismissing URF’s long-term (or at least longer-than-two-weeks-term) viability by saying it’s a) too expensive to maintain and b) not maintaining enough interest to warrant the cost doesn’t hold water once you consider the fact that Riot maintains a few incredibly obscure game modes the vast majority of the community doesn’t play and has no interest in trying out. Exhibit A: the rapidly dwindling “Dominion”—a game mode that, not unlike URF, actually began as an experiment. Riot could easily switch Dominion and URF’s places, and would probably make a lot of people happy in so doing.

Even if the developers felt like they were “treading water balance-wise,” did they really need to? URF was meant to be ridiculous and broken. That’s what many people loved about it—at least for a short time.

Seeing as League of Legends’ “normal” game modes have been changed on a monthly (if not weekly) basis for six years now and Riot describes the game as “always-evolving,” two weeks is nowhere near enough time to evaluate the success of URF. The “wildly toxic champion play patterns” that began to spring up may just have been growing pains the community could have worked through. People love to pigeonhole diehard, vocal fans, but give the League hivemind some credit; they do end up solving a lot of problems and establish positive community norms by talking through them together ad infinatum.

14 Comments

Dr Easter4 votes

Yay one more post from someone that has no idea about Dominion asking to remove it. Let me quote 2 answers I gave on other same kind of senseless threads to save my time... maybe there is hope some posters will understand (no much hope tbh)

Here on "replace dom with URF"

{quoted}

Why people always say Dominion has to be removed to keep URF? If they kept URF would be perfect for Dominion players. It's by far the mode that more keeps the trolls away from Dom.

And here on why people "prefer" more URF

{quoted}

Because people don't need to think to play URF at all. But if you want to play Dom/TT well you need to use your brain there. And then there is the problem with these mods being different (in Dom's case very different) of the normal Moba style and the main point being that there are no tutorials teaching what to do in Dominion, and to make it all perfect the score system make people play it even more wrong. Dominion was made to be competitive and have ranked, this was in a red post right after Dom release when he answered to one of those "huh nobody cares about this mode" trolls. Too bad Riot never actually understood how their own creation works. Just consider the short attention span and the need for quick results younger people has. Dominion has a lot of potential if Riot worked on it right.

Absolute0Chaos3 votes

{quoted}

Yay one more post from someone that has no idea about Dominion asking to remove it. Let me quote 2 answers I gave on other same kind of senseless threads to save my time... maybe there is hope some posters will understand (no much hope tbh)

Here on "replace dom with URF"

And here on why people "prefer" more URF

I've never asked to remove Dominion. good trolling thoughTeemo Teemo Teemo Teemo

Sir ArmaMalum2 votes

To address your points individually:

a) too expensive to maintain

What I'm assuming you mean here isn't the direct cost, but the cost to the community maintenance via community fracturing. i.e. too many people on URF will screw over other modes that have their own investment, meaning losses. I apologize if I'm misinterpreting. Naturally the easiest way to rectify this from your side of the argument is to replace Dominion or TT with URF and tank the losses in favor of the high interest in URF. Personally I think this would hurt Riot and League more in the long run, as Riot has already promised to never remove Dominion as well as it and TT giving a bit of refresher in strategies from SR modes. Of course that just boils down to opinion and faith of URF's longevity.

b) not maintaining enough interest to warrant the cost

I for one have never seen a Red say there wouldn't be enough interest in keeping URF mode permanently. And I completely agree that should URF ever be brought about permanently there would be plenty of people willing to play it. (At the beginning)

Even if the developers felt like they were “treading water balance-wise,” did they really need to? URF was meant to be ridiculous and broken.

The “wildly toxic champion play patterns” that began to spring up may just have been growing pains the community could have worked through.

Combining these two because they tread the same lines. When it comes to balance, yes, URF is broken. And rightly so, it's ridiculous. However I believe (and I know I'm not the only one) that meta-stagnation is a serious concern for URF's longevity. It's for that same reason that normal play is changed, as you say, almost weekly. To keep the same effect URF balance would more than likely have to be poked and prodded in a moderately frequent matter. You can't seriously expect to keep URF as is for more than a month before people start falling into a routine and the magic is lost.

Yes, you could devote balance changes to URF, just as they already do with TT and Dominion, but it still boils down to needing additional assets and an inevitable meta being made. Personally I don't see a way to viably make URF permanent without at the same time taking away what make URF fun. It's spontaneity and over-the-top strategies.

Hell Taker3 votes

Quick and brief translation of what Sir Arma has typed:

"Personally, I hate U.R.F. and do not want to have it on live server as a permanent game choice. So, because of the many who are demanding U.R.F to stay on live server, then i'm going to try and give out a 'kind and euphemistic response' to the best of my ability in order to conceal my dislike of this game mode. Oh, and maybe I should add to my concluding sentence that it would be best to keep it as an annual year event game mode..."

Comprehend his double speech!

Absolute0Chaos1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hell Taker,realm=NA,application-id=LFfTlAky,discussion-id=iIdcpvE5,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-04-03T19:46:08.307+0000)

Quick and brief translation of what Sir Arma has typed:

"Personally, I hate U.R.F. and do not want to have it on live server as a permanent game choice. So, because of the many who are demanding U.R.F to stay on live server, then i'm going to try and give out a 'kind and euphemistic response' to the best of my ability in order to conceal my dislike of this game mode. Oh, and maybe I should add to my concluding sentence that it would be best to keep it as an annual year event game mode..."

Comprehend his double speech!

Haha I thought that too.

But let's be fair here.

Absolute0Chaos1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir ArmaMalum,realm=NA,application-id=LFfTlAky,discussion-id=iIdcpvE5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-03T17:40:25.509+0000)

To address your points individually:

What I'm assuming you mean here isn't the direct cost, but the cost to the community maintenance via community fracturing. i.e. too many people on URF will screw over other modes that have their own investment, meaning losses. I apologize if I'm misinterpreting.

To be honest, I'm not sure what "cost" really meant when Riot said it.

The first point is basically saying it's bad because people will like it too much? I don't buy that as a reason to not keep it. Quite the opposite in fact.

Not keep it because it'll have less people play other modes? Then why not remove TT, Dominion (espeically), and ARAM? Just make SR the only mode, and it kind of is considering your win/loss record only records games from that map, as well as ranked being only in that map as well.

Naturally the easiest way to rectify this from your side of the argument is to replace Dominion or TT with URF and tank the losses in favor of the high interest in URF. Personally I think this would hurt Riot and League more in the long run, as Riot has already promised to never remove Dominion as well as it and TT giving a bit of refresher in strategies from SR modes.

URF gives a refresher AND a stress-reliever. It's the ultimate mode for casuals we've seen so far.

It's not like Rito has broken promises before. It wouldn't be the first time. Removing TT/Dominion in favour of URF would be totally understandable. I don't see how it "hurts" in the long run considering Rito has made worse mistakes in the past.

Of course that just boils down to opinion and faith of URF's longevity.

Exactly. No one knows until it has been tried.

I for one have never seen a Red say there wouldn't be enough interest in keeping URF mode permanently. And I completely agree that should URF ever be brought about permanently there would be plenty of people willing to play it. (At the beginning)

They'll probably be more people play it at the beginning considering it would be "new", but that's normal and goes with pretty much everything that isn't SR.

Combining these two because they tread the same lines. When it comes to balance, yes, URF is broken. And rightly so, it's ridiculous. However I believe (and I know I'm not the only one) that meta-stagnation is a serious concern for URF's longevity. It's for that same reason that normal play is changed, as you say, almost weekly. To keep the same effect URF balance would more than likely have to be poked and prodded in a moderately frequent matter. You can't seriously expect to keep URF as is for more than a month before people start falling into a routine and the magic is lost.

Except how much of a concern is meta-stagnation when it's intended to be broken in the first place? I don't really see a problem there. By that argument, limited time modes shouldn't even exist cause of "meta-stagnation" (they have to do some balancing the first time when they're making it).

On that note, God forbid the developers having to "poke and prod" their game modes in moderately frequent matter. Because good games fall from the Heavens.

Falling into routine? Magic is lost? Might as well make all the modes limited time only then.

Yes, you could devote balance changes to URF, just as they already do with TT and Dominion, but it still boils down to needing additional assets and an inevitable meta being made. Personally I don't see a way to viably make URF permanent without at the same time taking away what make URF fun. It's spontaneity and over-the-top strategies.

You know what makes it the least fun of all? Not being able to play it for 50 out of 52 weeks in the year.

If you don't think it's fun, then don't play it, plenty of others will fill for you.

URF isn't meant to be a serious competitive mode, that was never the point. The arguments against keeping it can be made against keeping custome-made games.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

We've reached a dead end with the replacing Dom/TT, so I'll drop that point with an 'agree to disagree'.

On the meta-stagnation point, I understand and in fact commend you for believing that URF will remain casual. I however, do not believe that. At the end of the day, people want to win. To win, players will pick the best champions. Are the stakes lower and the games shorter? Yes. But some people will still get upset if someone takes away their chances at winning, or they see it as such. Can you seriously say you saw more than 20 different champion at the end of the 2nd week last year?

Also, to be clear, I do think URF is fun. I've played a shit ton of it the last week and did last year as well. It's great. However I do not consider making URF permanent is a good idea and am explaining myself.

Fossil KiD2 votes

[deleted]

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

I'll admit this is the first time I've been berated for not elaborating. Usually I get berated by people who think it was too long and don't bother reading. So, as you request I will elaborate.

First off, please reference where my personal feelings are affecting my conclusions. I in fact in the last post state I enjoy URF and play it as much as I can, but I separate my enjoyment from my reasonable conclusions when debates like this pop up. And I have done so.

Secondly, I agree player skill trumps champion choice and that raging is not an URF specific thing. URF is, in my eyes, the least ragey mode we've had. More than likely because of the short average game time, but that's another debate. I'm not sure why you brought these points up as I was not contesting them. I was mentioning people getting upset because I was trying to emphasize the driving force behind meta-enforcement.

Further, I was bringing up champion diversity in URF because the main matter here if the longevity of URF as a game mode. If URF can't last long as a permanent game mode it shouldn't be, inversely if it can it should. This is the main focus point. My argument states that as time goes on (as it did last year, which is why I mentioned it) URF mode will no longer be fun because of several factors. Champion choice stagnation, meta-development and balance issues.

  • Choice stagnation will be an issue because as I was implying in my previous comment the primary driving force of 'having fun' in League of Legends is winning. Maybe not even the match as a whole, but at some point you have to be doing better than your opponent. It's the point of a competitive game. In URF there are obvious choices to who does all around better, who are the stronger picks. Hecarim, Sona, Ez, Shen, Urgot, Poppy are all examples. The list is longer than normals sure, but only because here hasn't been enough time for a meta to develop. Which leads to the second point.

  • Meta development. As I said, the competitive nature of League will influence champion choice over time. As it does at the beginning of every season change in normals. People ferret out the strongest picks and use it to gain whatever small advantage they can. As you said, player skill can still outweigh champion choice, but the fact remains that the stronger picks become more popular. I see this same thing happening to URF. Once a meta develops the current strong picks will be divided into tiers of strength and you'll see less and less diversity until it's reached the same point as ranked has today.

  • Balance issues. The primary counter to both the above points for normal play is regularly adjusting the power levels of champions to keep 'stirring the pot' effectively. It's a premise known as perfect imbalance and Riot has been using it from day one. However, I believe properly balancing champions for URF goes against what URF stands for: over-the-top, ridiculous, game-breaking changes to your normal playing experience. Making URF permanent would only be possible by taking away what makes URF that event we look forward to. In order to be a viable long-term game mode you'd have to reign in the glorious bubbling madness that is URF, or else people will just walk away because nothing will change once the community 'figures URF out' and develops an accepted meta. Because, as you said, people like experimenting with URF. But once that experimenting is done, what happens? You just default back to who will get you a win, just like in normals.

And again, the statement I don't like URF is false. I love URF. This has been said already, several times even, and corroborated by the fact that I've played almost nothing but URF for the last few days. And since I do love URF I do not want to see it become a permanent game mode, as I firmly believe that choice will hurt the game mode as well as League as a whole. Hopefully this is enough impartial, elaborated reasoning for you to understand my point. If you accuse me of overriding my argument with my personal feelings and I am not looking at this topic objectively I will be reassured you did not bother reading everything.

Good day sir/madame.

Absolute0Chaos2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir ArmaMalum,realm=NA,application-id=LFfTlAky,discussion-id=iIdcpvE5,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-04-04T06:53:10.098+0000)

We've reached a dead end with the replacing Dom/TT, so I'll drop that point with an 'agree to disagree'.

On the meta-stagnation point, I understand and in fact commend you for believing that URF will remain casual. I however, do not believe that. At the end of the day, people want to win. To win, players will pick the best champions. Are the stakes lower and the games shorter? Yes. But some people will still get upset if someone takes away their chances at winning, or they see it as such. Can you seriously say you saw more than 20 different champion at the end of the 2nd week last year?

Also, to be clear, I do think URF is fun. I've played a shit ton of it the last week and did last year as well. It's great. However I do not consider making URF permanent is a good idea and am explaining myself.

You don't want to keep URF, I get it, I don't understand why but I get it.

Anyway, Couch Whip whipped up a pretty good response.

AkabaneKun2 votes

I just don't get how we haven't got a new perma game mode in years, don't want to bring urf because of reasons fine wtv, but at least give us something, TT hexakill or 1vs1/2vs2 magma chamber or something really, and the whole "because the playerbase would get fragmented" and "it would get stagnated fast" is kinda bs, since a lot of ppl play more than one mode, most of the time ppl play ARAM or the other game modes because they are tired of ranked or normal SR, having a mode doesn't mean you are entitled to play it every time you play LoL, the ones who do, do so because they like it even if it's stagnated due to lack of updating, TT hasn't been touch in ages it's completely unbalanced and there still exists a small portion of the playerbase that plays only TT.

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