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Improving the ARAM experience: minimize incentive to queue dodge

Dr Clueless PhD·10/16/2014, 11:42:24 PM·5 votes·2,117 views

Hello, everybody! My friends and I have done some theorycrafting on how to improve the ARAM queue. One of the issues we run into playing is that people are very willing to simply dodge a game if they don't like the random they've received (or their teammates). I think this is an issue, as it takes away part of the random nature of the map and causes longer lobbies.

The solution we came up with is simple (though I don't know if CODING it would be just as simple): if someone dodges an ARAM queue, the next ARAM they play will be with the Champion they had previously selected. Essentially, if you're the kind of person to say "I hate Udyr on ARAM, and have no rerolls. I'll just dodge.", you HAVE to play a game with Udyr to play more ARAM.

Dodging bad rolls and teams seems to be a really popular way of winning games right now, and this would really help to minimize it. There would certainly be concerns (like someone else dodging the next game, multiple people needing the same Champion played to unlock Random again, etc.), but I feel like this idea has enough merit to discuss, and those concerns have solutions (matchmaker adjustments, etc.).

Thoughts?

8 Comments

Zielmann10/17/2014, 12:10:24 AM2 votes

This idea has been talked to death in the past. And I still have to lean toward no. One of the biggest issues is that it introduces a chance that two players may encounter each other having just dodged as the same champion. It also could have the unintended consequence of people dodging when they have a good champion, because the rest of their team isn't that good. Now they'll know that they'll get that good champ the next time, so they'll take their chances that the next team will be better. Then there's the extreme case of dodging as a good champion to get a stacked team (particularly as a premade). Each player dodges after they get a good champ. Now they all jump in a game together and they have a godly team comp.

Then there's the part of me that can't help but view the dodging you see currently as not being all that bad. I've been playing ARAM for a very long time now. Back when these were only custom games, dodging was a nightmare. To start with, there were 100+ custom lobbies waiting for players, so sometimes they would take some time to fill up. Then once you got into champ select, since there was no penalty to dodging, people would quit left and right if they had a bad champ (or if they saw something they didn't want to play against on the other team). It was not uncommon to have to sit through 12-15 dodges before you got into a game. And there were times when it was 20+ dodges.

With all that in mind, I don't see dodging as being a huge issue right now. I may get one or two here and there, but a good number of games will go through on the first try as well. The more immediate issue that I feel needs some kind of resolution is that of ARAM smurfs. But that's a completely separate discussion.

Jeddite10/17/2014, 3:32:31 AM2 votes

How do all these ARAM Bronze MMR players keep hatching the same terrible ideas? Well, since the same unfeasible non-suggestions keep getting reposted, I'll just re-post the same reply:

Oh hay -- this completely unfeasible idea again. Hey, since you clearly put a great deal of effort into this, how do you reconcile the all-too-possible scenario where Players DURP and HURP both random Sejuani in different games. Both Players DURP and HURP dodge. After the dodge-timer expires, both Players DURP and HURP queue up for ARAM and get matched with each other (it doesn't matter if they're on the same team or not). They're both going to be assigned Sejuani.

Yeah, that's right -- you can't. Because you haven't put any thought into this non-idea (but you're not alone -- nobody who posted this untenable non-suggestion in the old ARAM subforum put any effort into answering this question either). At best, all you have is* "WELL, THE ODDS OF PLAYERS HURP AND DURP GETTING PUT INTO THE SAME GAME AFTER DODGING WITH THE SAME CHAMPION IS REALLY REALLY REALL LOW"* -or- "WELL RIOT CAN JUST ADJUST MATCH-MAKING TO NOT PAIR UP PLAYERS WHO QUEUE-DODGED WITH THE SAME CHAMPION". But neither of these are solutions that Riot will implement.

Of course, this could by hypothetically mitigated if Riot allowed the same champion on both teams again (which they won't do). But that doesn't provide a solution if three different players all random Aatrox, dodge, and then get matched with each other when they re-queue up. Statistically probable or not -- it's something that can happen, so there needs to be a solution. And the people suggesting this non-idea don't have a solution to the very real problem they don't even realize they're creating. Unintended consequences.

Every single one of these threads is posted by some clowncar who random'd a favored champion (Ziggs), then after somebody dodges, random's an un-favored champion (Olaf). Every. Single. Time. Nobody -- BUT NOBODY -- comes to the forums to complain when they random Zac, then get Sona after somebody else dodges.

Kinjishi10/17/2014, 6:24:44 AM1 votes

Don't think this will necessarily help. What I due in lobby is ask if anyone is better at a champion (if I have not played them before or played them very little). Sometimes people will trade, sometimes I end up playing them. The bigger issue is bots on ARAM. Just today I had a game where my team was myself and 4 bots against 5 PCs. It was just ridiculous - over in 5.5 minutes (stomped and nobody got XP/IP).

junglerboy1610/17/2014, 6:23:54 PM1 votes

I think a better way to incentivize not queue dodging would be to have each ARAM queue dodge reduce your work towards rerolls. It isn't perfect, since someone who REALLY hate a champion will still dodge, but if it is just an "I don't feel like Graves right now" kind of person, they may rethink their options. The other super simple solution would be make the time penalty for rejoin the lobby longer so that people have to really decide between dodging a single bad match or potentially losing access to ARAM for a whole day. But really, this is not anywhere near as big an issue as the bots, they make it virtually unplayable anyway.

Cumătru Yi10/18/2014, 7:33:56 AM1 votes

No. No. No.

If your SHIT idea happens I will never play aram again aftervI dodged because I know I will play a shitty champion and have a shitty game.

HeadCrusher10/20/2014, 8:32:51 AM1 votes

What if I dodge as Udyr from the free-week rotation just like an hour before the new rotation comes in?

JRobin3110/24/2014, 8:43:59 AM1 votes

I agree that there are too many dodges from ARAM champ select. Rerolls for champions are a good idea, but the number of players dodging ARAM champ select is straightforward evidence that a problem (still) exists. I'm the sort of player who never uses rerolls gasp and doesn't dodge. I own very few champions that I don't enjoy playing :D But let's not joke around. We know that there are players out there who are going to go hardcore on ARAM. Yes, I know it's sooooo hard to believe that, but yes, there are players cough no life cough who actually take ARAM seriously. And if you stop to think about it, then it shouldn't take you too long to realize that a hardcore ARAM player will have a smurf account with a small number of champions dedicated to playing ARAM. And if you really stop to think about it, then you realize that players that don't have dedicated ARAM accounts aren't hardcore... but are still going to dodge champ select every time they don't get a champion they like (because they have used up their rerolls). In short, it doesn't matter if most of the player base claims to not take ARAM seriously because most of the player base would still much rather win the very ARAM games they claim to not take so seriously. The fact that a noticeable portion of players dodge ARAM at champ select shows players are trying to increase their odds of winning by breaking the system. I don't think RIOT should rush to make a change to ARAM. I think RIOT should think carefully about the impact a change would have and make sure that they weigh all of the many ideas offered in the forums - and players have volunteered many great ideas - poke RIOT poke The problem as it exists is one that RIOT should address, because players who buy champion bundles with say 20 champions in them and then later on realize that they are only interested in playing 3 of the champions in that bundle are just screwed when it comes to ARAM. They spent RP to put themselves into a place that made the fun casual gaming option less fun to play.

@Zielmann queue dodging and ARAM smurfs are not separate issues. Having ARAM smurfs keeps hardcore gamers from dodging games that they would otherwise dodge with their main account. In fact, having an ARAM smurf account is the best (partial) solution to the problem that anyone has come up with yet!

We have to ask the question: why doesn't RIOT just let players restrict their champion pool for ARAM in at least a fashion similar to the effect of having an ARAM smurf? In light of the fact that ARAM smurfs exist, it rather seems plain as day that RIOT should just implement this for the good of Runeterra. The only downside would be that players wouldn't have to go to the trouble of creating smurf accounts for playing ARAM... o what a tragedy. It would be as simple as letting players select the pool of champions available to play (with the exception of free to play champs obviously) down to a minimum number of champions (like, o, idk, how about 16). If you think about it even more you can come up with even more interesting solutions (such as no minimum but requiring champions that you've played recently in other games be included in the pool). I leave it to your boundless imaginations and our friendly conniving ARAM smurfers.

If you think that's a bad idea, then guess what? The question cuts both ways. If smurf accounts are bad, RIOT should just make all the champions available in ARAM because that's what RIOT would have to do to make ARAM smurf accounts non-viable. O man, I can see the queue dodges now... lolololol