Take down Dominion, put up Ascension as permanent mode in it's place.

Shosuko·9/24/2015, 3:43:49 AM·9 votes·1,370 views

As far as alternative game modes go, ARAM is legit, and so is TT. Obviously they don't have the massive playerbase of SR, but they have their players and queue times are pretty quick.

Dominion however, stands out as a glaring failure.

The reason why is that the game mode is too wonky. It was an attempt at creating non-linear play, no lines of turret but instead a more roaming, combat oriented mode. The problem is that it gets messed up by people playing speed ball rammus and other jank stuff that ruins the interactivity, and the experience of the game mode in all is poor.

However - Ascension is another more combat oriented game mode, but wins over in several ways. 1 - There is no farm mechanic. You get straight to the action, exactly what a combat oriented game mode wants. 2 - No turrets to defend. You don't have to worry about playing pansy around turrets when you really just want to fight. 3 - Even gold / xp feed. No one can snowball out, so even when players pick into weaker early game champs, they still have a chance to bring it back in the end game. 4 - The Ascension goal - becoming the ascended - is a combat oriented goal. You aren't powering up to turret dive or playing cat and mouse around various objectives avoiding confrontation rather than engaging in it...

5 - Most of all - Ascension is just fun! Because it's the raw, straight up combat game mode, it's fun! And because it's just a combat game, you can pick whoever you want. You don't have to pick a ranged guy to take out objectives, or pick a dive heavy champ to get under the turrets, or a speedy person to run all over the map... You just play.

Dump Dominion (keep it maybe as a rotation game mode), let's be honest - it's not doing anything (I queued up and see an estimated 20 minute timer lol) and bring in Ascension. I guarantee that game mode will maintain a player base, the people who just want to be their champ.

It's the mode that fits any champ, any time. You can play who you want, when you want. No worries about meta or positions...

This is THE casual game mode.

If I get out of work I don't want to stress MORE over an SR match, concerned about meta, positions, farming, feeding ect... I just want to be <insert champ here> and have fun.

Ascension is fun.

39 Comments

IlyaK19869/24/2015, 4:06:17 AM5 votes

I seriously don't get the hate for Dominion. Yes, you can have people playing speedball rammus, or being an annoying backcapping Shaco, but there are ways of dealing with that. The problem is that nobody understands dominion and so just craps over it. The whole thing of "waaah, not interactive" is silly. Dominion is far more interactive than a game of Rift in which one team wins one massive team fight at 25 minutes and then just grinds that advantage to victory. Last I checked, the first team to knock down an inhibitor in pro play won 91% of the time.

Dominion plays completely differently from other League modes. Too bad Riot, a company with around $1B in revenue, can't figure out how to make Dominion a featured mode. Here's an easy way: RP season prizes for ranked Dominion. Literally free freaking money if you're good enough.

Edit: as for Ascension, it was seriously boring. Herp derp deathballs-r-us, and shallow as hell.

SKOBODO9/28/2015, 11:25:38 AM4 votes

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Dominion should be removed because Dominion is a failed project which suffers from extreme unbalance, unintuitive and generally unattractive game play. There will not be ranked Dominion, there will not be Dominion tournament rewards. They just aren't going to do this.

Dominion is the most balanced game mode at the moment. What's unattractive about the gameplay? I agree that it's unintuitive, although I'd argue that SR is as well. I agree that there won't be ranked Dominion, but I disagree about tournaments, Dominion tournaments have long been a thing. Granted, we just get RP, Triumphant Ryze and 4-win IP boosts, but it's still something, and competitive games between two good Dominion teams can be quite fun to play and watch.

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  • People play SR without guides, because SR is fun and intuitive. Dominion isn't fun or intuitive, which is why people don't play it. If people liked it, guides or not they'd be playing it. That's how guides get made, and why they're sought out.

Lots of people are "sheep"/conformists and aren't willing to try things outside of their comfort zone. That's why you see McDonald's being as popular as it is, or why pop music is so popular, or why so many people go watch the same new popular movie (even if it's not nearly as good as other movies). People tend to give up on Dominion too quickly, a lot of people have like 0-50 Dominion wins, which is not nearly enough to give a proper opinion on the map.

You yourself have 21 Dominion wins. How do you know you wouldn't like the map if you had 300 Dominion wins? Most maps take a while to get fun, especially since you'd have to get out of low-MMR to get reasonably good teammates. Although considering you want a casual mode, Dominion, TT, and SR might not be for you. ARAM is an option, as are various custom modes. Maybe try "Find the Teemo"? I haven't tried it myself, but it seems pretty casual.

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Dominion players can aspire towards absolutely nothing.

Tournament RP. I know NA currently doesn't have any tournaments, but you have had tournaments for a long time, and you might get new ones in the future if you're lucky.

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It's far from "people don't understand it." The game mode has over a 20 minute queue... With the millions of players on League they can't scrap up 10 players for the game mode... that is a testament to how dead the game mode is. You may have liked it, but you're in for a 20 minute queue for a reason, no one else LIKES it. "Ways to play around it" or not, people don't find it engaging or enjoyable, and this isn't just me spouting off because -I- don't like it, it's the entire player base abandoning it.

Even high MMR people often get games faster than 20 minutes these days (on EUW). Low and mid-MMR players get significantly faster queues. Are you sure you didn't select Draft instead of Blind? You can queue Draft for 3 hours without getting a game.

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While I agree it was frustrating, I think that was partly because we were all trying to get the Perfect Ascension, which kinda ruined the fun of the game mode b/c the other team would get the ascension and it was practically gg :\

I managed to get Perfect Ascension fairly early, and I still found the game mode to be worse than Dominion.

Kholdstare139/29/2015, 4:25:36 PM3 votes

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Bot lane Dominion is for people who really like laning (and don't mind getting ganked a lot). I personally dislike bot lane Dominion, but I know some people that like it, and only two people need to play it per game. It's kind of the "support" role of Dominion, as in it's the least popular role, but someone usually steps up, and some people even offers to go bot.

Let me just clarify one thing about this. While it is "laning" in the purest sense, it could not be more opposite to SR's default laning gameplay. It's far closer to URF "laning."

SR laning is focused around passive poking and last hits. The point is to get as much farm as possible to save for later. You avoid attacking minions outside of last hits to better pull the lane for safer farming.

Bot lane is an aggressive pushfest. Last hits are incidental. The important part is not how much you can earn for later but how hard you can fuck over the other guy right now. You need to balance pushing and harass. Keep the enemy on his toes. Be the biggest bully you can be. Pushing is good. Push hard enough and minions can threaten neutralization for you. That forces a response from their team in the form of an incoming gank. Survive the gank and you just bought your team valuable 4v3 time to secure objectives. Poked the enemy down enough? Try a full dive for that kill. Again your goal is to force a response. If you notice the enemy is occupied elsewhere, punish that as hard as you can. Go all-in for a kill and try to grab a quick cap.

There's also an interesting balance with the push. When things are uncertain and ganks are possible, you need to balance the benefits of controlling the mid relic over the risks of ganks. I main AD Malz so that relic is invaluable to me for mana sustain, but other champions need to consider it more thoroughly. It's a big advantage in routing the other laner, but it opens up a big vulnerability.

There are other strategies of course. Bots like Zyra might choose for a more defensive turtling strategy to stagnate the lane and wait for ganks, making sure to help secure them when they come. Ones like Nunu like to keep the lane itself balanced while trying to simply outlast you with infinite sustain as they slowly whittle you down and rush for a cap if you ever back off. Many strategies exist, but the point is always the same: Build momentum for your team, and swing hard when you get the chance.

SKOBODO9/28/2015, 11:25:10 AM3 votes

So much wrong. This might take a while.

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As far as alternative game modes go, ARAM is legit, and so is TT. Obviously they don't have the massive playerbase of SR, but they have their players and queue times are pretty quick.

I went like 200 wins 100 losses in normal TT, which made my queue-times long-ish. Like 5-15 minutes. I've seen ARAM players getting 10 minute queues once their MMR is high enough. And I've had 10 minute Normal SR draft queues. Aside from solo-queue and Blind Pick Normals, every queue seems to have long queues once you get to high MMR.

The reason why is that the game mode is too wonky. It was an attempt at creating non-linear play, no lines of turret but instead a more roaming, combat oriented mode. The problem is that it gets messed up by people playing speed ball rammus and other jank stuff that ruins the interactivity, and the experience of the game mode in all is poor.

However - Ascension is another more combat oriented game mode, but wins over in several ways.

1 - There is no farm mechanic. You get straight to the action, exactly what a combat oriented game mode wants.

Right, but you do in Dominion as well. You first poke a bit in a 4v4 before you engage or get engaged upon, and after that it's mostly roaming the map, with the occasional waveclearing. Good players tend to end up with around 20 cs or so at average, depending a bit on the situation. Good players will generally move through the fog of war and not give away their position. You generally don't want the enemy team to know where you are.

2 - No turrets to defend. You don't have to worry about playing pansy around turrets when you really just want to fight.

It adds depth.

3 - Even gold / xp feed. No one can snowball out, so even when players pick into weaker early game champs, they still have a chance to bring it back in the end game.

Dominion could be adjusted to even out gold/xp a bit. I don't disagree with you that this is good, although I do believe Ascension overdid it on the gold, you often got too much gold, which made certain champions overpowered.

4 - The Ascension goal - becoming the ascended - is a combat oriented goal. You aren't powering up to turret dive or playing cat and mouse around various objectives avoiding confrontation rather than engaging in it...

Right, but a lot of it had to do with whoever got the last hit. And once you got it you got way overpowered. Not that fun to play against.

5 - Most of all - Ascension is just fun! Because it's the raw, straight up combat game mode, it's fun! And because it's just a combat game, you can pick whoever you want. You don't have to pick a ranged guy to take out objectives, or pick a dive heavy champ to get under the turrets, or a speedy person to run all over the map... You just play.

False. Certain champions still did better, and having a balanced comp was still better than stacking. As for Dominion, you don't need to pick a "ranged guy" to take out objectives (I assume you mean marksman, which isn't even a very strong role on Dominion), or dive heavy champion (dives are risky), and you definitely don't need a speedy person. Try to get a somewhat balanced comp, with cc, some tankiness, and both magical and physical damage, and you're set.

Dump Dominion (keep it maybe as a rotation game mode), let's be honest - it's not doing anything (I queued up and see an estimated 20 minute timer lol) and bring in Ascension.

20 minute timer? Are you queueing at 5 AM? Or are you doing Draft? They disabled Draft on EUW due to lack of players, and the NA Dominion base is smaller than the EUW player base, so yeah... Just ignore Draft. Anyway, Dominion still has an active player base on EUW (and a semi-active on NA), so it shouldn't be disabled.

Ascension is fun.

I didn't find it that fun, it kind of felt like a poorly balanced dumbed-down Dominion.

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  • League on the Rift wasn't high MMR people feeding low MMR players until they "learned," the game was intuitive and enjoyed and the high MMR field developed. People don't enjoy Dominion enough, and the game play is not intuitive enough, to be worth learning.

The game wasn't intuitive. Did you play pre-Season 1 or Season 1? Most people didn't really know how to play. Wards were barely used aside from Gold/Platinum players (which is basically Platinum/Diamond/Master/Challenger these days due to inflation), Dragon was ignored, and builds were awful. Oh, and ADC + support bot lane didn't pick up until late Season 1. And a lot of games were played without a jungler. And people used Summoner Heal for sustain in lane. It wasn't intuitive. Even these days a lot of people don't ward or upgrade their trinkets.

Is Dominion worth learning? I think it is. I do agree that it's not intuitive (a lot of people seem to default to pushing the lanes instead of roaming the jungle and occasionally ganking bot), but I disagree that it's not worth learning. You can learn a lot just by talking to a skilled Dominion veteran.

Get ahead by some kill gold, and there isn't a lot of passive experience or gold gained through farming to catch up. Dominion is incredibly snowbally.

Fun fact: Killing 3 minions grants more gold than 1 kill. Two small is 60 gold, and one large is 60, so that's 120 gold. A basic kill is 100 gold. Another fun fact: Shutdown gold values in Dominion are there to prevent snowballing. If you get 7 kills and you die you give them 400 gold (600 if it's with assists), meanwhile you only got around 100 gold per kill. Granted, this could let that other person snowball a bit, especially if you went bot to feed their bot laner 400 gold. Anyway, gold kill values are low and ambient gold gain is high. There's not that much snowballing, and early game doesn't matter that much.

  • You know why draft is dead? Because no one plays without playing some jank speedball rammus BS.

I rarely see Rammus, he's not even a top 5 tank atm. He's good at punishing bad teams though. Teams that tend to "windmill" (push the lane towards the top point) tend to be vulnerable to backcaps. The proper solution is to establish jungle control and stop him when he tries to backcap, and counter-gank when he ganks bot. Or just force teamfights in the jungle, he's worse at teamfighting compared to most tanks. I do agree that he's annoying to deal with though, and he's pretty good still. You pretty much never see him in tournament games though.

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It's not bad because it takes thought, it's bad because the game play is full of holes. Because things like re-cap Shaco and speedball rammus exist.

"full of holes" is an exaggeration. Backcap Shaco is annoying and I do hope Riot does something about it, perhaps give us an anti-stealth use of the trinket, or perhaps better anti-stealth items. Another option is to simply give him some map-specific nerfs to make him less annoying to deal with. I don't think he's OP or even that strong, but he's annoying.

Dominion would need TONS of balancing, and a really intrusive rework to become viable. But is it even what people want?

Dominion is arguably the most balanced game mode at the moment. Bans in tournament are generally counter-bans rather than "Gotta ban the OP", and lots of champions are viable.

If you want the "real" game you play SR. If you want the "mini" game you play TT. If you want complete chaos you play aram. What role is Dominion even supposed to fill?

An alternate mode that offers lots of fights without having to farm or play a jungler. SR is the mode for people who like slow-paced games that often are decided by the laning phase, TT is the mode for people who want more frequent fights while still having a snowball factor. Dominion is a mode where farm is less important and the focus more lies on individual decision making, roaming, and good plays.

Bot lane Dominion is for people who really like laning (and don't mind getting ganked a lot). I personally dislike bot lane Dominion, but I know some people that like it, and only two people need to play it per game. It's kind of the "support" role of Dominion, as in it's the least popular role, but someone usually steps up, and some people even offers to go bot.

Currently I don't even play normal games much because it's more stress than I like.

Right. The issue is that even game modes that are supposed to be fun often end up with people tryharding in the end. I used to like ARAM, but these days it feels like people are playing safe rather than doing crazy plays for fun. URF had similar issues, some people just tryharded so hard. Oh, you should try Dominion URF though, even people who dislike regular Dominion tend to like URF Dominion.

What this game needs is a game mode where I don't have to consider what role is open, what the meta is, who's auto-locking some BS or calling lanes... A mode where I can get home from work, pick a champ I like, and just play. A mode where I can play with my scrub friends without getting slaughtered because of the complexity of SR.

Co-op vs AI? I wouldn't mind having some crazy mode for fun, but I'm not sure if it'd have lasting appeal. ARAM didn't, at least not for me (although I've played hundreds of games, maybe over a thousand if you count customs, not sure).

OOOOHHHHBABY9/26/2015, 11:40:26 PM2 votes

Ew.... No absolutely not and shame on you for thinking that people cant like what it is that they can like. Dominion is not a Rammus, Shaco, Heimerdinger dominated map(as most believe), only by illusion do they appear that way. Very easily roaming back door champs are countered. Okay. So why is Dominion not fun to you, because it is to me. I gave up SR to play Dominion, because i was tired of people being 'better' than me because they had a better CS than me, which i thought excessively boring: i can easily have 100 more CS and kill you as well, FUN!.. oh.. wait, not for me..(not that Riot really cares about anything else other than SR, as they have stated) The only people farming in Dominon is bot, which hilariously, nobody ever wants. IMO: you should suggest that dominion be more duel orientated, and have it so that bot cannot have 100CS without reaching a CS cap that limits the gold they receive The 20min timer you waited on is from draft mode, blind pick is typically 2mins And you btch about something that is only known to the bot champ over and over, which only 1 person out of 4 is known for having And there will NEVER be anything ranked/competitive besides Summoner's Rift, unless Riot has stated so~ I dont even know how long ive been playing this game, i think since maybe season 1 actually, and when i played and was introduced to dominion, that is what kept me playing this game for so long and has kept me coming back; now i only seldomly play SR (haha, i only play it now to remind myself why i dont play it) After Riot implements these differing game modes, other than SR, they will NEVER touch it/them again. If you want to find when they said this haha, god bless. They definitely have no intention of changing these game modes at all in any way shape or form, unless it is something that deals with items that they have recently implemented; and which is only done out of obligation that they are(the items) implemented...sadly But again, Riot will only care for Summoner's Rift. They couldn't care less about any other game mode(..jerks) Edit: more coherence

GreenLore9/24/2015, 3:28:54 PM2 votes

While I'd love for the ascension mode to become a permanent one(or at least for it to come back),I don't see a reason to remove Dominion for it.

I'd rather see Riot reworking Dominion a bit,like they did with TT.

1011001110009/24/2015, 4:55:31 AM2 votes

I thought Dominion was dead because of the supermassive amounts of bots that sieged Dominion and made every game in it unplayable garbage.

Dominion was fun before they showed up.

Then, lasbh jafsbk, yfksbjb

Minarde9/24/2015, 6:37:33 AM2 votes

Oh, hey, it's this suggestion again.

Dominion is a "failure" because Riot completely fumbled everything about the game mode. The mode is too complex for casuals to do well just jumping into a game (e.g. ARAM). Meanwhile, competitive players have no incentive to learn and play the map (e.g. TT) because Riot never followed through on its promises and talks of ranked, rewards, or anything. Consistent neglect and lack of support from Riot make the meta feel stale and unchanging. Dominion's a competitive game mode forced into being a casual game mode. That's why the playerbase has declined over the years.

It'd be a short-sighted decision to replace Dominion with Ascension. Ascension is inarguably a simplified version of Dominion. It's incredibly shallow, yet still vulnerable to the same neglect and abandonment that plagues Dom. The result would be a mess that a) competes with ARAM for the casual playerbase segment and b) still has a massively stale meta that discourages players. Replacing Dominion with Ascension just angers part of the playerbase by catering to another part of the playerbase that's, at best, the same size as the part you just drove away. There isn't a net positive for Riot here.

Finally, to address a few specific points

The problem is that it gets messed up by people playing speed ball rammus and other jank stuff that ruins the interactivity, and the experience of the game mode in all is poor.

Judging gameplay based on the antics of low-MMR players is a questionable call. That's less of an issue inherent to the game mode and more of an issue with information flow from high-MMR down to the rest of the playerbase.

1 - There is no farm mechanic. You get straight to the action, exactly what a combat oriented game mode wants.

There isn't one in Dominion either. Aside from maybe bot-lane, but bot's always been an oddity.

3 - Even gold / xp feed. No one can snowball out, so even when players pick into weaker early game champs, they still have a chance to bring it back in the end game.

Snowballing typically doesn't happen in Dominion. Reduced kill/minion/objective gold and passive xp means that teams have to consistently play well to win, rather than coast through on early advantages.

(I queued up and see an estimated 20 minute timer lol)

When exactly are you queuing up? Because even high-MMR guys supposedly average around 10. Draft is dead, but that's a different story (though coincidentally directly caused by Riot).

Actually xPeke9/24/2015, 3:25:33 PM2 votes

They should just Update dominion. I think it can be really cool but IMO it needs some updates, gameplay wise and graphics wise.

Aiko Umesawa9/26/2015, 11:37:18 PM1 votes

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT DOMINION THAT'S THE ONLY OLD MAP LEFT item 3070

But i do agree that it needs some changes but i want it to keep the old look but just some differences? idk i just love the old maps and music

Deep Terror Nami9/24/2015, 3:56:50 AM1 votes

While I think Dominion is terrible and Ascension considerably superior, I could only stand just enough Ascension to get the Perfect Ascension icon. They should just make a Featured Game Rotation and have something different one week of the month or something.

PizzaWaifu9/29/2015, 3:14:22 AM1 votes

I didn't think that Ascension was very great for its circumstances. If Riot polished it a bit by giving the Xerath a new model and name and giving it its own sand themed map and not having blocked of dominion.

KaminoX9/24/2015, 4:04:07 AM1 votes

or or or take down dominion (bc obviously no one plays it) and Put U.R.F as a perma mode