Hexakill has no viable champ diversity: it's a mage-fest (with fixes and predictions)

innervation··4 votes·1,751 views

Skip to the 'Fixes' section towards the bottom, which doubles as a TLDR, if you are so inclined.

Here is the Hexakill champion pool:

Tanks: Alistar, Maokai, Sion, Wukong, Garen

AD Assassin: Fiora, YI, Wukong

Supports: lolnope

Bruisers/fighters: you're funny

ADC/Marksman: Huehuehuehue (trist is semi viable b/c of resets, but in all cases, you can find a mage that does whatever you want to do better, in trist's case, that's AP ezreal).

Mages: anything that uses AP you can build Luden's Echo / Wooglets / Void Staff and win the game. This is the only way you can play supports. Same with half the tanks. You play them as burst mages.

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Here are the underlying mechanical issues that cause this. Keep in mind I'm not judging these things as "bad". But they are what they are, and that has consequences in terms of which champions are strong/weak/playable if you want to win.

   A.  Itemization.  Already more or less covered.  The aforementioned mage item trifecta is the best thing you can get on this map/mode which leads to...

PREDICTION NUMBER ONE If Riot releases in depth statistics about this mode, Luden's and Wooglets will be the two most (non-boots) items bought. Other than cheap pieces like boots or Vamp scepter, I'm talking finished items. Hydra will be up there, but that's only because Sanguine is not a realistic option for Hexakill, and people are still (laughably) trying to have fun/win in this mode by playing AD champions. Void staff will be top 6/7.

Wooglets and Void staff are good, core items for mages, and are probably necessary to make them viable. The real culprit here is how well they combo with the overtuned-for-this-mode Luden's Echo.

   B.  Gold comes in fast.  I'm not saying I don't want it that way, but it has effects.  First it makes the cost of Oracles trivial.  While normally assassins are pretty scary, or at least viable, this immediately rules out Akali, Rengar, and to a lesser extent Talon and Kha Zix.  

Second, the quick gold gain leads to a relatively quick first item purchase. Now if you believe, like I do, that there is one item that only half of the champions in the game can use, and that item is stronger than the items that the other half can use...who does this benefit? Right. 7-9 minute luden's. It's an insane power spike on a class of champions that hit their power spike through getting to the max rank of their nukes. The echo acts as a force multiplier for their already excellent power spike from level 6-13 - the core part of the Hexakill experience. And then there's the literal multiplier of Wooglet's waiting for them next, which also doubles as an excellent defensive option (bye bye Zed, cool CC tanks, I'll be chilling right here while my team nukes you off the map).

   C.  6 players per team and a smaller map makes AoE more valuable.  This should be pretty evident.  While this opens the door to the plausibility of someone like an Amumu or a Malphite, you'll still find that they end up building more like mages than tanks.  You'll quickly find that if you try to take Amumu or Malph into the Dojo of the mages that you will be first, stunlocked.  Second, nuked off the map.  And third, if you built the items to survive them, ignored while they kill your team.  Then you're left to 1v1 them, which you can't, cause you didn't buy Luden's + Wooglet's.

   D.  Clairvoyance is a game changer.  There's not a lot to do on this map in terms of winning the game.  You have two shrines, a limited jungle, and a boss which isn't even close to being as important as baron/dragon.  Any team that can look at its mini map knows that if the enemy isn't in lane, and not on a shrine (you'd see that too), they are at Vilemaw (easy enough to check) or camping a brush somewhere.  There is nothing else they can be doing.  So the team not camping needs to group up and start checking brushes.  CV is great for this, but what do you do if CV is down?  You check the brush as safely as you can, from range, with skills.  Who has short c/d ranged skills that can be spammed to check brush?  I think you see where this is going.  If a fighter tries to check a brush for you, well...RIP Darius/Riven.

So even though AoE tanks benefit from this situation a bit, it still helps mages even more.

PREDICTION NUMBER TWO Champion diversity will be some of the lowest we've seen from a featured game mode (excluding pre Sona+Ryze perma banned original URF). If Riot releases these stats, we'll find an overwhelming amount of mages at the top. I guess I should say viable champion diversity, because I'm more concerned about win rates relative to pick rates - it's not just as simple as either one by itself.

Just looking at pick rates, I'm sure there will be plenty of picks for champions that don't have a great win rate. After all, if you consider yourself a Lucian main, you'll probably still play Lucian in Hexakill. Even though you can't hope to lane against Xerath + Ziggs + Lux no matter who your lane mates are. But I'd bet that if you split the total run-time of Hexakill into halves, or quarters, you'd see a dramatic drop off in a lot of non mage champion picks.

Yes, some of this will happen in every featured mode as players figure out the meta, and what's good and what isn't, but I think it will be an extraordinary and record-setting drop off for Hexakill.

If that's not the case, and people are still stubbornly picking 'bad' champions, I think this will be strongly reflected in the win rates in the second half or later quarters of time that Hexakill is live. People are going to realize, "oh rushing Luden's on heimer is pretty freaking good, I'll just do that if I want to win". Those who don't fall into that mindset will see their win rates drop off.

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Fixes

  1. Perma ban reset champions on this map. Katarina, Tristana, Yi, and Kha'Zix

  2. Disable Luden's Echo. I can't think of a way to preserve the spirit of this item (which is admittedly cool) without breaking it for AP scaling melee, so just disable it. Maybe give them (mages) back a single target DFG type item with a short range 'gunblade' type nuke so it has to be used more defensively in close quarters as opposed to 'LOL luden's nuke gets whatever range my spell has' (again see Ziggs/lux/xerath/kog for the worst offenders).

  3. I think with YI out of the game, Fiora becomes a pretty worthy ban candidate. I've heard that some people want Thornmail back in the game, but if the first two suggestions are done this shouldn't be necessary. I'd still be interested in a Thornmail with slightly less stats being in Hexakill as a situational pick for when the other team is auto attack heavy. Maybe 80 armor and 25% damage return instead of 100/30.

These three changes alone would do wonders for greater diversity of viability across champions/roles. Not every team would be 1 tank, 1 AD assassin, and 4 mages. Supports could build like supports...with...you know...actual support items. Darius could actually get picked, played, and (gasp) win the game. God forbid you might even see a skarner, udyr, or trundle.

We've had years of ARAM where long range - poke mages were kings and queens. I was really hoping Hexakill wouldn't be this way too. I guess technically it isn't - they aren't long range - poke mages in Hexakill. They're long range death mages.

15 Comments

Hupsis3 votes

"Supports: lolnope"

I play Karma support maxing E first and mitigating most of the enemy damage. 2 losses from 8 games thus far. My build looks like: item 3158 item 3003 item 3190 item 3504 + item 3090 if I ever get the money.

I'm sure Sona is able to do good as well. Also saw a Soraka in the enemy team and she was able to sustain her team enough to win the game.

Edit: Supports are kinda counters to reset champions. Tanks can cc them and healers/shielders can mitigate their damage.

innervation1 votes

That's interesting on a couple levels.

  1. I'm not saying supports can't win a game building support items. Or that any champion can't win a game building <insert random items>. 6-2 is a really good record on Karma, but that doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on what I'm talking about, which is the big picture. I started off 7-2. I don't remember what champions I played, but I wouldn't venture to say that I won those 7 games only because of who I picked.

Maybe you're really good at Karma. Maybe you're good at the game and matchmaking hasn't caught up yet to matching you against players of your skill. Maybe the other teams had some pretty poor compositions. Even on summoners rift in ranked you'll see 6 game winning/losing streaks, and plenty of times where you win/lose 6 out of 8 even when you play the highest winrate champ or your best champ.

  1. You mention how you max E and mitigate a lot of damage. You could do that building as a pure mage too :D

  2. Yes Sona is a beast, as she seems to be in most modes. Soraka seems to be good against sub optimal teams (so the non 1 tank, 1 ad assassin, 4 mages, which is what I would run if it were like some tournament with a 50,000 dollar prize), which isn't a surprise. Soraka, to me, is still just another support who would be more effective building damage and hitting her skill shots.

Edit: I guess the forums know better than I do how I want my numbered lists formatted :o 1, 1, and 2 it is.

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

"Supports: lolnope"

I play Karma support maxing E first and mitigating most of the enemy damage.

That's a mage though. The support role basically doesn't exist, so champions that are normally supports have to do something else (mage or tank generally).

Do you build item 2049? No, because it doesn't exist. Do you build item 3303 item 3301 item 3302? I don't remember if they exist or not, but if they do, you probably still wouldn't build them. Their power curve is too slow. Do you lane with other people? Well, yeah, but everyone does in this, it doesn't make you special. Do you avoid getting CS so they can get more? Doubt it. Nobody is going to have much CS anyway because there are so few minions relative to the number of champions, but the playstyle where you avoid taking them is unlikely. And it wouldn't matter that much, due to the nature of the mode, almost all gold comes from kills and assists.

Several mages that support on SR can be viable on Hexa:TT, but not as supports -- they build and play more like the lane versions of the same champion (especially the ones that are still hanging on as flex picks in non-pro SR -- Annie Karma Lux Lulu Morgana Zyra etc.)

As for the OP, I agree that fighters are in a really bad place, and because tanks can get focused down so quickly, marksmen have little value to add over mages. You don't mention assassins though, most of which are permabans. For all the supposed dominance of mages it's rare to see a ban spent on one.

If they really wanted to improve balance, I'd start by reducing the gold per kill by at least 25%, to compensate for the insane number of kills (which is fun, but kinda balance wrecking at the normal gold values). Strengthen towers significantly to account for the greater number of players that can be at them. And maybe give every champion a +20-25% total HP buff so that people (especially tanks) take slightly longer to explode even with the extra attackers, which would also improve the value of sustained damage.

But they probably don't care that much about balance in a featured game mode unless it is something totally gamebreaking, like some of the original URF champions.

Hupsis1 votes

I have actually thought of building item 3301 since it gives sustain and gold. And believe it or not I'm trying to give all the cs to my team mates. If for some reason I'm alone I will of course take it.

For me supporting in TT hexakill mode means that I build a bit defensively and focus on cdr and team buffs while securing my late game presence by buying tear of the godess early.

Playing support means that you try to achieve victory through your team mates. If your team mates suck, it's hard to win. Usually if this happens I will try to become the mage.

innervation1 votes

{quoted}

As for the OP, I agree that fighters are in a really bad place, and because tanks can get focused down so quickly, marksmen have little value to add over mages. You don't mention assassins though, most of which are permabans. For all the supposed dominance of mages it's rare to see a ban spent on one.

If they really wanted to improve balance, I'd start by reducing the gold per kill by at least 25%, to compensate for the insane number of kills (which is fun, but kinda balance wrecking at the normal gold values). Strengthen towers significantly to account for the greater number of players that can be at them. And maybe give every champion a +20-25% total HP buff so that people (especially tanks) take slightly longer to explode even with the extra attackers, which would also improve the value of sustained damage.

But they probably don't care that much about balance in a featured game mode unless it is something totally gamebreaking, like some of the original URF champions.

Concerning assassin bans, I saw them regularly at first, but I'm seeing them less now. Maybe its just because I'm more conscious of the situation.

On balance, 25% more hp across all champs would be interesting. Very interesting. You would expect that such a change would lower the value of burst and in favor of more sustained forms of damage like ashe or darius. This could be viable but its hard to say without testing. I think the gold gain should stay - its one of the big things that helps differentiate most Featured Game Modes from SR.

On Riot caring. I know they can't spend months of time balancing these things. This was less of a "**** you Riot" post for them screwing up, and more of a "if you ever run this mode again, I think these changes would be nice". Or at least that was the intent.

TomA3X1 votes

Ludens is pretty ridiculous, this was my first Hexakill game with friends. We were doing a global ult comp, except from fizz obviously. But large AOE ults are the way to go!

http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/2143259819/205137555?tab=overview

innervation1 votes

Right, so that's the exact kind of final score screen I would predict based on what I wrote in the OP. Granted there was probably some (or alot!) of snowballing going on that game, but still.

Your team:

The mages built Luden's, and have great KDAs.

Ezreal and Ziggs, the two best Luden's users of the 4, have the most damage dealt to champions and it's not even close.

Your two marksmen have relatively poor KDAs, I would say because they don't have access to Wooglets, which makes them easy targets for Malphite/LB.

Their team:

The cho'gath is stuck halfway between tank and mage - not at all where you want to be.

Jax is crap in Hexakill.

Heimer and LB don't have Luden's.

What is Caitlin supposed to do against Ezreal + Ziggs + APGP?

Again given that kill disparity, snowballing probably had a lot to do with the final numbers too, which is why I'd love to see the big-picture aggregate data from Riot to see if I'm right. But this is a really good case study of what I'm talking about. It doesn't prove me right, but I'm also not saying it does - just that it's what I'd expect in a majority of games with those exact champs 6v6.

Thx for the link and congrats on that sick Ezreal game lol. Edit: And in an effort to less biased, I was surprised to see that Jax led their team in hero damage - I would not have expected that.

KidKaiser1 votes

i mean. Hexakill is basically ARAM. in Twisted Treeline. without the random champ selects.

cuz y go single target when u can just spam AoE's in a tight space rite?

if it was on the SR map. same thing. would be better tho with everyone warding and calling it map hax/

innervation1 votes

Even if you took Ziggs ult away and gave him nothing back, just an empty skill, he would still be a fine pick. Syndra uses Luden's just fine, and she doesn't have elite AoE, or even average AoE, I'd say, compared to other mages.

So I don't think this all boils down to ONLY AoE > Single target (some AD assassins are still good), but it's definitely part of it. But the holy trinity of AP items prevents AD teams from getting to the end game.

Reginscythe1 votes

A perfectly agree with your post, it makes sense and is logical, but I've picked Skarner twice in Hexakill TT and won both times. The strength lies in going Trinity Force-Sunfire and then getting some MR to counter those OP long range death mages, and CDR to spam Q fer dayz. The amount of steady AoE ramping damage skarner can put out in a fight with Q plus sunfire if he survives long enough (thus tank items, runes and masteries) is suprisingly high. Skarner is free this week, you should try it on TT. Game one http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1848339901/214638145?tab=overview Game two http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1848259442/214638145?tab=overview

innervation1 votes

I'm not convinced the first game had much to do with you or the Skarner pick (no offense). From the looks of it your double junglers caused some hell for their single jungle Nunu. Also enemy brand was 0/10 with only 25 cs...I mean 25 cs?? So I would question the competency of the enemy team. For that game, I'd bet you could have been any champion and still won that one.

Gotta give props for the second game though. Idk what the thresh was doing, but between him lux and Volibear, you shouldn't have been able to get to leblanc + caitlin. I'm guessing the Alistar was quite well played and the thresh was probably...um...not so well played. Just going by the match history though, I'd have to say you had a big positive impact on the second game as Skarner.

I still don't think his kit is powerful enough to merit being in a tier with Alistar and Sion for Hexakill success. With your flash up, sure you're as useful as them. For the 3 team fights while Skarner flash is down I'd rather have just about any other tank.

Once again I'll point out that single examples, or even 8 game samples aren't enough to be conclusive about any one champion. There are so many things that go into winning any one game - teamwork and communication, individual skill, map awareness, snowballing early kills into a hard-to-beat midgame, and of course the subject of this post, team composition and champion balance. Some games get fought to a draw and turn on just one player making a boneheaded play trying to force something good to happen because they're trying to break a siege. It doesn't mean the winning team's champions are automatically better than the 6 they beat, or vice versa.

Edit: Fun fact about your two histories. 4 champions built luden's echo. 3 of them led their respective teams in damage. The 4th was your jungle nunu (still in a winning effort, but he probably didn't proc it on heroes as much if he was in the jungle). Coincidence? =D

stealthfox941 votes

Played it 3 times, each game had a Jayce and Yasuo in it that got made fed and did obnoxious damage. Guess I'm in the minority.

Kalarepa1 votes

What are you smoking OP, I won 4/5 games on support champions, they're perfectly viable in Hexakill. Mages are strong, but that's only because of Ludens Echo. Which should get nerf in next patch.

innervation1 votes

Luden's Echo was my number one reason that Hexakill was a mage fest...so...I guess I'm smoking whatever you are?

4/5 wins (or losses) as support champions (or any thing for that matter) is anecdotal evidence, a terribly small sample size, and can't confirm or disprove anything.

Sakuri Ono1 votes

Rather disagree with Marksmen being completely second fiddle to Mages here. Went through my history and every single Marksman game I played was not only a win but a fairly heavy contribution on my end of things. Never once did I feel like any Mage in my arsenal would be any better of a pick. (For the record my other Hexa games include: 6 Veigars (4W/2L), 1 Teemo (1W), 2 Lux (1W/1L), and 1 Sona (1W). )

Varus http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1848375432/43653767?tab=overview http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1844503423/43653767?tab=overview

KogMaw http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1842116472/43653767?tab=overview

Jayce http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1841961822/43653767?tab=overview

Draven (Note, the first game our Xin was pretty much DC'd for the majority of the match.) http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1841119033/43653767?tab=overview http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1840193732/43653767?tab=overview

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