How Does Kindred Die?

Teridax68··2 votes·2,978 views

From the looks of it thus far, Kindred seems to be the embodiment, or at least an aspect, of death itself, and might not even be "real" in the same physical sense as most other champions. In-game, though, Kindred's very much visible, targetable and killable as much as any other champion. Could their lore account for this? What does it mean when death itself dies?

I'm definitely not asking for Kindred to be untargetable and immortal with perma-stealth, obviously, but I feel there's an issue of lore-to-gameplay dissonance that Riot is going to have to address with respect to the in-game functionality of some champions. Along with Kindred, there are already a few other entities that are immortal (e.g. Kalista), that transcend the physical plane (e.g. Bard) or that would otherwise be somewhat above being harmed by normal means (e.g. TahmKench). As we get more of these champions, we might end up with games full of entities that should normally be completely incapable of affecting or even perceiving each other. Will Summoner's Rift ever get its own written lore? How does it fit into the League of Legends canon, if it does at all? The map already tells many stories through its environment that have parallels in the lore (the mage/paladin architectures look like the Magelords and Protectorate from Aatrox's lore, the ancient jungle creatures have some of the same mystical qualities as Bard and Kindred, and Baron Nashor is obviously a clear intrusion from the Void), so it would be a shame to have it excluded from the story of Runeterra and its creatures.

32 Comments

Sharjo3 votes

I'd imagine that while Kindred can't be permanently obliterated, they can be physically destroyed. They would probably reform in whatever plane of existence they originate from, which could take anywhere from days to years, before making a return. Given the way they talk about "dying" in game, it's likely that they enter a slumber while they recover from near destruction, but for all intents and purposes it's highly likely they can't truly die unless they were destroyed in their plane of origin, whatever or wherever that is. If you're looking for a comparison, look for demons in World of Warcraft. Their immortal souls are bound to the Twisting Nether, so while they can physically die they can always come back after enough time or through being demonically resurrected, with the exception being that if they're killed in the Nether, they die permanently.

There's likely a whole bunch of means that the entities that we consider near immortal like the living dead, demons and celestial beings can be killed off permanently, but the means are likely highly varied and potentially really complicated.

As to the history of Summoner's Rift; I can't say what it is even though I'm confident it's a fairly important historical location in Runterra. I'm not 100% sold on the idea that the two sides represent the Magelords and Protectorate but indeed a possibility. Either way the facts we know:

  • Both sides were well versed in magical summoning, and used a lot of gems and crystals as the foci for their magi.
  • Aatrox made an appearance here at some point.
  • Baron Nashor was summoned to the Rift, more likely by the Red Side due to the destruction shown there. Why is unknown but it was potentially to tip the tide of battle in the favour of one side.
  • The whole place is magically radiated, causing various magical mutations in the wildlife such as two headed wolves and living plants that are on fire.
  • The place is old enough to be decrepit, but not old enough that it's basically a ruin waiting to be unearthed; a lot of the ruins present aren't nearly as overgwon as would be expected if this had been left for thousands of years, but there could be magic at work messing with the natural reclamation of the Rift.
SEKAI2 votes

How Does Kindred Die?

I guess the same way that happened to this guy.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KeBdy6ZeLEA/maxresdefault.jpg

Celio Hogane HD1 votes

Killed with the heaviest armor, a ironskin spell and double spears in his face?

Fasmodey2 votes

It's because lore means nothing for gameplay. Would you like to see Xerath, Kalista, Bard, Kindred every time that's because they're god compare to other champions and can't die? Kindred is just a normal champion for the game, can be killed by Teemo or even a minion.

They said thousand times they don't want to shape the game with connected lore for clarity. There will be events but they still don't change gameplay of champion, offensive and defensive stats.

Queenpin1 votes

{quoted}

It's because lore means nothing for gameplay. Would you like to see Xerath, Kalista, Bard, Kindred every time that's because they're god compare to other champions and can't die? Kindred is just a normal champion for the game, can be killed by Teemo or even a minion.

They said thousand times they don't want to shape the game with connected lore for clarity. There will be events but they still don't change gameplay of champion, offensive and defensive stats.

I think the OP already sated that they don't expect to have certain champions be immortal or have their lore dictate the way that can be played. I think it's more about coming to understand WHY and HOW these champions came to be apart of the league.

It's generally understood that summoners's rift, Twisted Tree line and the Howling Abyss are protected/controlled by some kind of magic that lets champs "go back to their day jobs" after the beating they take in these respective arenas, so just going into a little more detail about this magic and how it allows certain champions to be perceived (like for example Nocturne) and for some champions to be defeated (like for example Kindred) would be an easy solution.

As for the HOW I'd personaly like to know why some champs would even bother with the League. Someone like Aumumu makes sense, because he's in essence just a lonely kid looking for some friends so I can understand him wandering into the League in the hopes of finding someone to play with. Most of the champs have a lore that explains or makes sense of why they would be involved with the League, but what about Bard or Kindred who are eternal and etherial? What reason would that have to (for lack of a better word) stoop to running about in an arena for some summoner?

EDIT: cleared up my point and capitalized some stuff

Ebonmaw Dragon1 votes

{quoted}

I think the OP already sated that they don't expect to have certain champions be immortal or have their lore dictate the way that can be played. I think it's more about coming to understand WHY and HOW these champions came to be apart of the league.

It's generally understood that summoners's rift, Twisted Tree line and the Howling Abyss are protected/controlled by some kind of magic that lets champs "go back to their day jobs" after the beating they take in these respective arenas, so just going into a little more detail about this magic and how it allows certain champions to be perceived (like for example Nocturne) and for some champions to be defeated (like for example Kindred) would be an easy solution.

As for the HOW I'd personaly like to know why some champs would even bother with the League. Someone like Aumumu makes sense, because he's in essence just a lonely kid looking for some friends so I can understand him wandering into the League in the hopes of finding someone to play with. Most of the champs have a lore that explains or makes sense of why they would be involved with the League, but what about Bard or Kindred who are eternal and etherial? What reason would that have to (for lack of a better word) stoop to running about in an arena for some summoner?

Did you read the answer in your own thread?

{quoted}

There is no "League" anymore. Riot Confirmed that the League, Institute of War, the Summoners, and the Fields of Justice, are all removed from the lore.

Kindred is simply another champion to play in the game.

[{quoted}](name=Ebonmaw Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=mp9Zcy5O,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-18T14:46:44.418+0000)

Well... i have bad news for you: The "League of Legends", "The Summoners", the "Fields of Justice" and the "Institute of War" are no longer part of the lore of LoL.

Queenpin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ebonmaw Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=zmUo56V2,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-09-18T15:09:43.285+0000)

Did you read the answer in your own thread?

Yes'sir. I actually just got back form it!

I think most of what I said here still stands though. In my opinion it would be nice to have a why and how for these champions fighting.

Ebonmaw Dragon1 votes

{quoted}

Yes'sir. I actually just got back form it!

I think most of what I said here still stands though. In my opinion it would be nice to have a why and how for these champions fighting.

I put the link in the other thread... In the new lore the Game is not cannon, the champions do not fight in the Fields of Justice, the "Fields of Justice" are random places from Runeterra. Imagine a "Super Smash Bros" Runeterra heroes and legends.

Håppy3 votes

{quoted}

I think the OP already sated that they don't expect to have certain champions be immortal or have their lore dictate the way that can be played. I think it's more about coming to understand why and how these champions came to be apart of the league. It's generally understood that summoners's rift, Twisted Tree line and the Howling Abyss are protected/controlled by some kind of magic that lets champs "go back to their day jobs" after the beating they take in these arenas, so just going into a little more detail about this magic and how it allows certain champions to be perceived (like for example Nocturne) and for some champions to be defeated (like for example Kindred) would be an easy solution.

As for the how I'd personaly like to know why some champs would even bother with the League. Someone like Aumumu makes sense, because he's just a powerful kid looking for some friends so he wanders in the the League because he want someone to play with. Most of the champs have a lore that explains or makes sense of why they would be involved with the League, but what about Bard or Kindred who are off doing their eternal etherial business? What reason would that have to (for lack of a better word) stoop to running about in an arena?

Lore in LoL is dead. The retconning of the Institute of War has killed the lore of League, and Riot has done nothing to repair this garbage. They're more focused around the gameplay in LCS than the story of the game, which disappoints me.

Tesla Effect2 votes

Its vanquished for a time, never fully destroyed.

James Stone2 votes

Wolf: "Have they forgotten us yet, little Lamb?" Lamb: "All still know us, though they try to forget. Soon we will remind them."

I find this quote very interesting, because it suggests whatever Kindred are, they weren't active and around for a while, for so long in fact they were nearly forgotten, or at the very least they haven't been present in Runeterra's cultures for a while. Considering you can't really forget Death, it suggests whatever they are, they are something... different

Ignis01 votes

I get a very different feel from this. Death does not simply leave Runeterra because reasons.

I feel like this is more of an implication of the fact that we forget our mortality. For example Draven, guy thinks himself as a god. One day he will die and the kindred will come to claim him (remind him) from the mortal world.

Ebonmaw Dragon2 votes

{quoted}

I get a very different feel from this. Death does not simply leave Runeterra because reasons.

For example Draven, guy thinks himself as a god. One day he will die and the kindred will come to claim him (remind him) from the mortal world.

Wait a minute.... are you saying that Draven is NOT a god?

James Stone1 votes

{quoted}

I get a very different feel from this. Death does not simply leave Runeterra because reasons.

I feel like this is more of an implication of the fact that we forget our mortality. For example Draven, guy thinks himself as a god. One day he will die and the kindred will come to claim him (remind him) from the mortal world.

That's my point. They ain't death

Ignis01 votes

[{quoted}](name=James Stone,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=zmUo56V2,comment-id=000a00000001,timestamp=2015-09-18T22:44:29.705+0000)

That's my point. They ain't death

No where in my comment did I say they weren't death... because they are death. They aren't just some spirits hunting because they can (half the shadow isle creatures) they hunt because it's their job, to claim the lives of the living. After all, ALL must meet them.

Rustling Bush1 votes

Kindred just kinds of fizzs out into smoke before re spawning, so in a sense they really don't have a physical body that can truly be destroyed

Fowus2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Summoner Grey,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=zmUo56V2,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-18T13:58:10.132+0000)

Kindred just kinds of fizzs out into smoke before re spawning, so in a sense they really don't have a physical body that can truly be destroyed

I thought they joined together as one again

Ralanr1 votes

I thought wolf dealt the finishing blow?

Ebonmaw Dragon1 votes

I think that they say this when they "die":

Wolf: "Is this what it feels like to end?" Lamb: "I do not know, for this is not our end." Wolf: "Do others come back?" Lamb: "Those who do, wish they hadn't."

Celio Hogane HD1 votes

Not sure if is a reference to summoners or that they will be back the "Shadow isles" way

Ebonmaw Dragon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Celio Hogane HD,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=zmUo56V2,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-09-18T15:10:23.127+0000)

Not sure if is a reference to summoners or that they will be back the "Shadow isles" way

Its a reference to the Shadow Isles, "Those who do, wish they hadn't."... The Summoners do not exist in the new lore.

Centuros1 votes

Ekko never actually dies in-game, he just pulls the cord and rewinds..

Ralanr1 votes

I like to think it malfunctions. And with Zed I like to think the shadows claim him when he's weakened.

Axests1 votes

they don't actually die, the idea is that their powers are limited on the fields of justice and...oh wait summoners don't exist anymore so lore like that doesn't exist

Reisuke Naoki1 votes

Think of it this way. Bard has a Spiritual Form and a Physical form.

Bard can be killed because his Physical form is harmed. Notice the thing he does when he dies? his mask falls and something goes out. That is how he dies. He will reform his Physical presence in time, but his Spiritual form will never be harmed.

This applies to Kindred as well. What we see is a physical form. An Illusion of some sort. when the Illusion is broke, their spirits live on, and because they are special kinds of spirits, they have enough energy to reform their physical entities again.

to support this theory, it was said in Bard's discussion that he can be sealed. Sealed spirits/apparitions are unable to reform. They will ahve restricted power. Where am i going with this? This means They live forever, Physical and Spiritual forms, but their Physical forms can be harmed, thus "death" occurs, unless the death of the physical entity also means the sealing/restricting of the spirit as well.

then again, some lores will throw a wrench at this theory, like Vayne's ability to use silver bolts to "purge" (also meaning to restrict, banish, seal spirits in a sense), Zed/Lux/Diana/Leona/Malzahar/Lissandra/Brand's death animations make them literally immortals as well, because they disintegrate into their respective elements when they die, and still reform.

James Stone1 votes

Seems like Graham O'Neill's influence is already being felt, which is good, because I really like his writing style, but on the other hand it does create a massive ludonarrative dissonance in it of itself.

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say Kindred isn't really Death, nor its Angel.

In the old lore, if I'm not mistaken, the First Rune War was between God and Man, where the great Sorcerers of Old defeated the reign Gods had over them. It could be beings like Kindred and Tahm Kench are surviving "Gods" from Eras past, who're slowly regaining their influence and power.

50000000000000001 votes

Kindred dies whenever a child says "Kindred doesn't exist"

Maximum Morde1 votes

Probably Silver bolts.

Valaran Nara1 votes

Remember people, Kindred doesn't truly exist.

Kindred is a folktale.

Kindred is as real as the Grim Reaper.

You don't have 100% clarity on if reapers or THE Grim Reaper exist until you meet them at his/her/their door.

Ebonmaw Dragon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valaran Nara,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=zmUo56V2,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2015-09-19T05:14:10.401+0000)

Remember people, Kindred doesn't truly exist.

Kindred is a folktale.

Kindred is as real as the Grim Reaper.

You don't have 100% clarity on if reapers or THE Grim Reaper exist until you meet them at his/her/their door.

If they dont exist.... WHY PEOPLE DIE?

Checkmate atheist

Valaran Nara1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ebonmaw Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=zmUo56V2,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2015-09-19T05:20:03.848+0000)

If they dont exist.... WHY PEOPLE DIE?

Checkmate atheist

#Illuminati

DragonShea1 votes

How Does Kindred Die?

The same reason that boot's buff Corki's speed.

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