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Am I just a Nostalgic Grump?

Zypheit··4 votes·649 views

So I posted this comment in response to the new Punches and Plant comic that's featured in the client lobby for me: "So what did Riot do to lose all of their creative team members with an actual sense of characterization? It had to be something a couple years ago at least because overwhelmingly new or reworked champions just do not compare to what was released back in League's heyday."

It's fairly mean spirited but I can't say it's not how I feel. I used to be captivated by the world and characters featured in League of Legends, but it's been years now since that luster began to fade and now everything seems so generic and targeted to the lowest common denominator. It really reminds me of the plateau and decline of World of Warcraft having played from Burning Crusade through Cataclysm. It's not that the title failed but it certainly became less than what it was. The frustrating thing for me is I can't articulate well where my dissatisfaction truly lies I just know that looking at what was produced in the past, the champion Judgements for example, and what is produced now leaves me longing for what once was and does not seem to be any longer.

13 Comments

HonestJohnTheCon3 votes

Personally, I think Riot's doing a great job with releasing new champs while giving them good lore and personality. Kled is hilarious, Aurelion's sarcastic, and Jhin is just straight up AWESOME. Kayn was cool too, and Ornn seems neat.

Updating lores, yeah, sometimes Riot sucks at that.

Also, Punches and Plants was a community creation, so you can't exactly blame Riot for it.

DrCyanide2 votes

I think I understand. Old Xerath was a mage who was fascinated by raw, arcane magic. He loved, but tragically lost his love to the very arcane magic he was so entranced by.

His first new lore replaced that man with the "politician ascendant", a slave who wanted political power over all else and didn't do anything to indicate he could do magic related tasks on his own. If anything, he implies that Azir is ignorant to think he's a mage and Azir's father was so proud he just wanted a "magus" in his court. It took an additional lore piece to even hint at him actually being able to use magic, but by then I'd long since lost interest in the official stories.

The lore feels flat to me now. Before it was rich with possibility, but now every champion lore I've read feels like they came out of the same mold.

Axzarious1 votes

I have to agree, and I really dislike how this Xerath is more like your typical saturday morning cartoon villain. What I don't like is how Xerath's lore seems to have been written solely for Azir's sake. Renekton is a mixed bag. His lore started great, but quickly fell off after he Ascended with Nasus when they removed that key element of him slowly being corrupted by the hearts of the common people. Nasus? Dude's an example of an older champion adapted and updated correctly. I don't think it would have been too difficult to give Xerath a proper adaptation.

All it would have taken would be for Xerath to retain his fascination with magic, and being able and aware of things people were not. Hell, if you want to involve Azir? Maybe he willingly went down the path of Slavery, simply for the chance to access magic he might have only obtained in that manner? From there, one can largely follow the arc in his original lore.

Despite what Riot had, at one point mentioning that the Champion's character arcs were 'complete' by the time they became playable, I would have to disagree. Xerath, a being who had achieved what amounts to godhood in the process of inadvertently destroying what had tied him to the mortal world, who still needs to free himself from the shackles of his past, both literally and metaphorically?

No. Instead let's make a bad Azir fanfic where Xerath isn't Xerath.

ChompyWulf2 votes

As a fellow former WoW player, I label what you describe as "The Ghostcrawler Effect" The guy took over as lead design for WoW as it was going toward Wrath of the Lich King. Undeniably the peak of that games popularity, and he was the architect of its slide. All throughout the ongoing releases of Wrath, from godawful "door bosses" from new instances not given enough server power to support the demand, to class power imbalances, to poor writing and character storytelling, an unsatisfying Cata and even worse Pandaria release...ultimately he guided it all. And he has been lead on LoL since 2014.

While the overall amount and effort of reworked and new lore is appreciable, the tone and changes to so many characters from what they once were that people fell in love with is very comparable to how much of the WoW storytelling soured fans of that series.

Whyte Lyon3 votes

The heck? Ghostcrawler has no influence on League's lore what so ever.

ChompyWulf1 votes

As Lead Game Designer, he is much like a movie director. He's not writing, or coding, but bringing all the elements together. Is he wholly responsible for all the lore? No, but he has a hand in it. He also has a huge hand in "balance" and sucks at it.

Whyte Lyon1 votes

{quoted}

Is he wholly responsible for all the lore? No, but he has a hand in it.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/8ff7de9b80e97351ab4686bfeb4815e4/tumblr_nzf3ssS4Sh1tdbwduo1_1280.gif Yeah and Anthony Reynolds and Graham McNeill both have a hand in gameplay development. Pffft.

But seriously, if you have a problem with lore then it's them and the 10+ other writers you should project your subjective opinions to, not onto Ghostcrawler.

ChompyWulf1 votes

Strawman is flimsy and you ignore the legitimate truth that he does have a say in forming lore.

Whyte Lyon1 votes

So got any examples of where you think Ghostcrawler has interfered and muddled with certain lore updates? Specifics are required for this skeptic.

Zypheit1 votes

{quoted}

As a fellow former WoW player, I label what you describe as "The Ghostcrawler Effect" The guy took over as lead design for WoW as it was going toward Wrath of the Lich King. Undeniably the peak of that games popularity, and he was the architect of its slide. All throughout the ongoing releases of Wrath, from godawful "door bosses" from new instances not given enough server power to support the demand, to class power imbalances, to poor writing and character storytelling, an unsatisfying Cata and even worse Pandaria release...ultimately he guided it all. And he has been lead on LoL since 2014.

While the overall amount and effort of reworked and new lore is appreciable, the tone and changes to so many characters from what they once were that people fell in love with is very comparable to how much of the WoW storytelling soured fans of that series.

My issues with League predated Greg Street coming onto the team as Lead Game Designer, and when he announced he was coming onto the project I chuckled to myself because I knew people would conflate his presence with the decline I had already been seeing.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

I prefer Grognard to nostalgic grump. But both descriptions work.

And you're not alone, I have been very vocal about how I think some of Riot's decisions have been detrimental and some of their writing have been straight up bad.

You'll probably be downvoted to hell and back, but whatever. It's not like downvotes or upvotes actually mean anything.

But if you're willing to risk it, I'd like to see if we can find what was the trigger that started to turn you against the game. What do you think was the heyday of league champion creation? What personalities did you find yourself drawn to?

Zypheit1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vi34oiBA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-16T00:39:26.376+0000)

I prefer Grognard to nostalgic grump. But both descriptions work.

And you're not alone, I have been very vocal about how I think some of Riot's decisions have been detrimental and some of their writing have been straight up bad.

You'll probably be downvoted to hell and back, but whatever. It's not like downvotes or upvotes actually mean anything.

But if you're willing to risk it, I'd like to see if we can find what was the trigger that started to turn you against the game. What do you think was the heyday of league champion creation? What personalities did you find yourself drawn to?

Zac was the first champion I can remember being completely unimpressed with from a creative viewpoint. Some before him like Jayce had flat characters but were interesting enough thematically to get a pass. The Freljord event where all of the champions were rewritten and pigeon holed into one of the three tribal factions would have left a bad taste in my mouth if not for Lissandra fronting the whole thing. Trundle, Nunu, Gragas, Volibear, Olaf, and Udyr all felt lesser after those reworks. Tryndamere I never thought much of to begin with and Anivia honestly came out a little bit stronger.

Jinx was released and was superbly done. Her story and relations with other champions were very open to interpretation and captivating to imagine. Not to mention the music video that accompanied her release just blew everyone away. You could tell that she was a project of passion for many people within the company. That may have been when I was most impressed with Riot as a team of creators.

And looking at the champion release list after Jinx I'm reminded of when I first started to lose faith. They weren't bad but they didn't have that captivating element, which made sense when Riot announced the removal of the Institute of War as a lore element and that they'd been working on that decision since before the Freljord event. What I believe happened was that Jinx was close to the end of what they had in the pipeline from before the shift in approach towards the game's lore.

My thoughts for now.

Whyte Lyon3 votes

It's very hard to understand if the examples of what you think had lackluster lore are from the most recent interpretations or not. You mention ZAC's lore but which of his lore, the now outdated one from his release or the new one that came with Warwick's rework? Same goes for Jinx as well. You also mention the Freljord event, which really is a hard example of bad lore updates, since each character only received about 3-4 paragraphs of story, which is shameful considering most get 2-3 chapters of lore at the very least these days.

Also your scope on lore comes off as very limited, especially when you genuinely thought "Punches & Plants" was created by the Narrative team. So what about your opinions on the regional updates like Demaica, Piltover, Zaun, Targon, the Vastaya etc? Do you even know these stories exist?

Edit: It would be rude not to reply Zyph. Guess I'll just assume you have little understanding for what you're talking about.

Edit 2: welp you never replied.

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