On the subject of a potential Nocturne rework tho.

Grylos··3 votes·1,550 views

Alright, so I know John was mostly joking here but this actually got me thinking about some possible angles that could be taken for a future Nocturne rework, at least lore-wise. I'm not sure how many drafts ya'll at Rito have made up for him already, or if talking too much about it might ruin some surprises, but I figured there was no harm in trying!

What if Nocturne WAS the Ruined King?

Think about this for a minute. The Blessed Isles was once an epicenter of beauty and virtue, a utopia, almost dream-like in it's existence. Now, eons later, it's been twisted into the cursed Shadow Isles -- which serves as an almost literal, waking nightmare; and the Ruined King(From what I understand thus far) seems to be the focal point for it's downfall. He is entrapped between the realm of the living and the dead, tormented eternally, driven only by his suffering, and devouring all life and purity that is touched by the Mists. If Nocturne was made into the Ruined King, he could still bare some of the deeply ingrained traits that make Nocturne as he stands now, Nocturne; while fleshing him out as a champion and giving more of a footing for the lore of the Shadow Isles itself.

Now, I personally have always favored Nocturne as being more of an Eldritch horror; which unfortunately wouldn't lend itself well to the Ruined King approach. The only way I could think of to retain both these qualities is to suggest the possibility of the Ruined King being possessed, in a sense, by the accumulation of his grief and madness. In essence, Nocturne would not be the Ruined King HIMSELF, but an anthropomorphic personification of the King's nightmares and paranoia, who upon shattering the barriers between the living and the dead, latched on to his vessel and corrupt it into what he is today(Whatever that may be). This would also add a certain level of tragedy to his back story that would make him easier to sympathize with for players who don't like Nocturne as a one-dimensional evil.

But seriously, if none of that peaks any interest, then let me just throw a ball way out into the left field here and say that Nocturne would also be REALLY REALLY FRIGGIN' HELLA COOL if he were made into something similar to Dream(Morpheus), from Neil Gaiman's 'Sandman' comics (But more spoopy and corrupt 'n stuff). That would make it easy to slip him into the ethereal spirits/personifications slot, alongside the Kindred, Bard, Aurelion Sol, etc. Nocturne, lore wise, was probably one of the most overpowered champions before the retcon, and I'd be a little sad to see him knocked down to just 'spooky ghost' level. No pun intended.

Thoughts? Discussion?

16 Comments

GreenLore3 votes

I once thought about this myself,mainly based on this shadow isles icon http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/8/8b/ProfileIcon_Harrowing2014_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141023153438

Back then I assumed that it depicts the ruined king and it kinda looked like he is sleeping.

And while I doubt that I am right about the icon,I think the idea is still pretty solid.

Alternatively though I could see them turning Nocturne into a demon.

Grylos1 votes

{quoted}

I once thought about this myself,mainly based on this shadow isles icon http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/8/8b/ProfileIcon_Harrowing2014_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141023153438

Back then I assumed that it depicts the ruined king and it kinda looked like he is sleeping.

And while I doubt that I am right about the icon,I think the idea is still pretty solid.

Alternatively though I could see them turning Nocturne into a demon.

Ooh! That's a good tidbit I never would have caught myself. Even if that isn't necessarily right, there are plenty of other things in past installations that I think would lend themselves well to Nocturne being the Ruined King. A lot of the terminology used to describe the Ruined King's downfall reeks heavily of Nocturne's aura. If I remember correctly, the king was described as being overcome with grief, paranoid in his later days as he locked himself away with his wife's decaying corpse, and near the end, sick both mentally and physically, with fevers -- anyone who has had fever dreams knows how insane that can get. Now just throw some magic into that and BAM.

Not to mention in Nocturne's original lore, he was spawned on the Twisted Treeline -- and he almost always builds off of the Blade of the Ruined King.

A demon would work just as well, although I'm not sure if there has been any established concept of what a demon would be on Runeterra. We have angels, fallen angels, Tahm Kench is sort of demonic, then there is Aatrox -- but that seems to be more of his 'look' than what he actually is. If they did take the demon route, it would definitely open up some unexplored doorways.

GreenLore3 votes

Tahm Kench is actually said to be a real demon(a demon also appeared in Shens new lore),in general they seem to be evil spirits that can come in various shapes and forms.

Grylos1 votes

{quoted}

Tahm Kench is actually said to be a real demon(a demon also appeared in Shens new lore),in general they seem to be evil spirits that can come in various shapes and forms.

Thanks for the knowledge, I haven't actually read Shen's new lore yet, I'll have to look!

LitAF2 votes

+1 for my fave champ

Grylos1 votes

{quoted}

+1 for my fave champ

I know the feels, he needs some love, right? >:

DwarvenGiant2 votes

Funny that you say that. Yesterday a friend asked me if Nocturne is from the Shadow Isles. I hesitated for a moment and then responded that he's not very canon is his current form but that Narrative's working on his new lore right now.

But then a thought sparked in me: What if he is from the Shadow Isles, in modern lore? What if he's made of the mist- like Yorick's Maiden, but still quite different?

After a few seconds I told myself that he's a living nightmare. He should remain independent, don't you think?

-_-

A few hours later came Yorick's Q&A, in which I saw this answer by JohnODyin:

He totally does. But they aren't really themselves. The Mist retains all of their memories and can use that to manipulate Yorick.

Now, this really caught my interest. What if Nocturne is the Mist (or at least made of it), like the Maiden? What if he's made of the nightmares or twisted dreams of the lost souls?

Grylos2 votes

{quoted}

Funny that you say that. Yesterday a friend asked me if Nocturne is from the Shadow Isles. I hesitated for a moment and then responded that he's not very canon is his current form but that Narrative's working on his new lore right now.

But then a thought sparked in me: What if he is from the Shadow Isles, in modern lore? What if he's made of the mist- like Yorick's Maiden, but still quite different?

After a few seconds I told myself that he's a living nightmare. He should remain independent, don't you think?

-_-

A few hours later came Yorick's Q&A, in which I saw this answer by JohnODyin:

Now, this really caught my interest. What if Nocturne is the Mist (or at least made of it), like the Maiden? What if he's made of the nightmares or twisted dreams of the lost souls?

I could definitely see it being worked from a direction like that, or similarly. I'm kind of curious to know what inspired the Maiden's design and what her involvement is with the Mists. It seems to be an almost hive mind kind of thing they have going on. Which could also bring up some really interesting opportunities...

At the same time, I do have to admit, I'm still really sold on the idea of him being independent in some fashion, myself. What if there were some way to incorporate both these things into his rework? Now that we're getting more pieces of overarching lore to play with, it's bringing in a lot of possibilities for these old, outdated characters that no longer quite fit into the new framework. What if he were a separately standing entity, still eternal in his own right, but somehow involved with the affairs of the Shadow Isles(either by choice or force)? You and Skelenth have got me thinking.

Skelenth1 votes

I don't understand why every lore-less evil champion has to come from the Shadow Isles now. Fiddlesticks, Nocturne and sometimes Malphite being the focal point of this trend. I mean, come on: Nocturne is a living nightmare, not an undead. He haunts people and kills them in their sleep, basically he's League's Freddy Krueger. The closest undead theme he could fit is a Poltergeist or a Mare, and that doesn't really fit the current Shadow Isles, as they are more about Zombies and Zombie-like creatures, rather than spirits/wraths.

I think Nocturne should stay on spooky ghost level, because he doesn't fit into the Shadow Isles, without massively and I mean extremely changing his core identity. Keep him a manifestation of bad dreams, turn him into the embodiment of nightmares on a celestial level, I don't care. Just let him stay the nightmare he is.

Grylos1 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand why every lore-less evil champion has to come from the Shadow Isles now. Fiddlesticks, Nocturne and sometimes Malphite being the focal point of this trend. I mean, come on: Nocturne is a living nightmare, not an undead. He haunts people and kills them in their sleep, basically he's League's Freddy Krueger. The closest undead theme he could fit is a Poltergeist or a Mare, and that doesn't really fit the current Shadow Isles, as they are more about Zombies and Zombie-like creatures, rather than spirits/wraths.

I think Nocturne should stay on spooky ghost level, because he doesn't fit into the Shadow Isles, without massively and I mean extremely changing his core identity.

When I say 'spooky ghost level' I'm referring to making him a part of the undead. Trust me, I'm not super big on the idea of actually placing him in the Isles either--- I have 3+ years invested in roleplaying him, built around an entirely different perspective than what I posted here. I would LOVE if they made him into more of a generalized spirit, or personification, like I mentioned in the bottom of my initial post. I remember reading elsewhere that Riot actually doesn't want to source every 'evil' character from the Isles, either.

But at the same time, with all the changes to the overall lore, I don't see the harm in exploring all the possibilities for a character that is utterly outdated to the point of not technically existing in the functional lore. I haven't seen even a hint of them knowing what they might want to do with him, and while I know that that might just be because they don't feel it's a good idea to bring up any of their concepts for him yet to the community, it could also mean they're stuck. So, why not bounce some ideas around for them? Maybe this will help them!

And honestly, anything is better than Nocturne = ZED FROM TEH FUTURZ, to me.

GreenLore2 votes

I've never seen anyone suggesting that Malphite should be from the shadow isles,that sounds really dumb.

And honestly in Nocturnes case it kinda makes sense considering that he was from the twisted treeline in the original lore,which is a part of the shadow isles nowadays, and because Nocturne looks like a mix between a ghost and a shadow.

Samflash31 votes

Idk...maybe he meant Maokai. I kinda confuse the both of them sometimes .

GreenLore2 votes

But Maokai is already associated with the shadow isles...

Skelenth1 votes

I've seen someone sometime suggest Malphite to be from the Shadow Isles.

However, Nocturne was released before the rework of Twisted Treeline, when it was still an area near Zhaun and not located on the Shadow Isles. And I'm not saying he doesn't look like he could be from the SI, but it doesn't fit his identity of haunting people in their dreams. The SI ghosts are purely physical, they don't affect your mental status directly, except by being creepy looking. Nocturne however manifests himself in your dream and kills you there

GreenLore2 votes

Yeah,but Maokai was also from the Twisted treeline before it was part of the SI and he is now also considered part of the SI-lineup.

And there is no reason why Nocturne can't be be something different than the regular undead,I mean Yorick managed to escape the corruption(mostly),Maokai is still alive and Mordekaiser was already undead before the shadow isles were a land of the dead.

The opener of this thread himself talks about the possibility of Nocturne being the nightmare of the ruined king,in which case Nocturne wouldn't even be undead and still come from the shadow isles.

Iwinatlife422 votes

Malphite is not even evil. He is a physical embodiment of the concept of order. So distinctly neutral just disgusted with the chaotic world of Runeterra nad lonely because he was separated from his hive mind.Ill be sad when all that goes away

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