So with Fiora's new lore, I'm a bit curious, and possibly confused about the state of Demacia. In some ways, it feels more cruel than Noxus. These people are so obsessed with honor that they're willing to kill each other for it, while dishonor means either the offender is exiled, or the entire family.
Then we have gender roles in Demacia. Fiora had to escape being seen as a political doll, but what does that mean for other Demacian women?
Sharjo12 votesI think the thing that stuck with me most from Fiora's new lore is how Patriarchal Demacia was made out to be. Kind of ironic considering Demacia's the only major Runeterran nation with more female than male champions representing it in game.
Looking at that for some women, for instance Sona and Lux, these things don't affect them as much because they were raised in to this establishment and likely are more accepting of it, and overall seem content with the whole thing, but then we have Vayne, Shyvana and Quinn, who're all women in roles that are likely very peculiar from the perspective of a Demacian. Shyvana probably gets it worst because not only is she a woman, but she's also a half bred dragon. The two combined likely hamper her way more than if she was a man. Quinn'll probably get a lot of the "know your place" stuff since she's a woman from outside the capital.
Kinda speaks volumes to Jarvan considering he's on good terms with both of them and has a great deal of respect for them.
Now I'm wondering about what people in Demacia think of Vayne. Considering that she's the head of House Vayne, a hunter of monsters and wicked sorcery, and a woman.
Chromatic Eagle4 votesI don't think they "hate" women, but they had issues with a woman being the head of a house. Lux's old lore never emphasized gender roles, only the military. Seeing as how the old lore made Lux desperate for an identity, maybe the new lore will have her regretting being so obedient to this culture.
Also makes you wonder how they'll write Katarina and Riven.
Sharjo6 votesYeah not so much of a hate thing but more of a "women have their place and this kinda isn't that." sorta deal. It's not like women aren't respected individuals but being women in positions of power is not the most common of concepts, very much like old medieval culture. It's also something probably more prevalent in the higher echelons of society; people from outside the capital and in the rural territories are likely way more liberal about that stuff.
GreenLore4 votesI think that women among the fighters are more accepted.Shyvana and Quinn are both in no leading positions,so I think them being women is easier accepted.
In vaynes case it is probably because the rest of her family is dead.I mean Fiora still has her brothers,but vayne doesn't have anyone. Also vayne doesn't seem to care that much about politics,I think it is likely that she lost most of her political power anyway and is more seen as a rich woman by others.
Sharjo2 votesI think that women among the fighters are more accepted.Shyvana and Quinn are both in no leading positions,so I think them being women is easier accepted.
The getting there might be a bit harder though, depending on how much those views bleed in to the military of Demacia. I agree the situation is likely different, but it's potentially not as well.
In vaynes case it is probably because the rest of her family is dead.I mean Fiora still has her brothers,but vayne doesn't have anyone. Also vayne doesn't seem to care that much about politics,I think it is likely that she lost most of her political power anyway and is more seen as a rich woman by others.
Yeah I get that. My main point of query though is how does Demacia at large view her? I mean the common folk likely view her as a venerable hero and slayer of evil, but further up the chain?
GenoXx1 votesLots of people probably doesn't regard Vayne in "higher up parties." If I was a noble in Demacia, and learned about a fellow nobles tradgic life that left her resulted in her present state, I wouldn't include her in those parties either.
This coming from expecting her to be rash and sway from proper "Demacian ways." I mean she stakes people. Thats always gonna leave Demacians calling her actions questionable....even though they have such harsh laws.
Sneak Dog2 votesVayne is nobility. Or at least, was. What happened after her fathers death is unclear to me. However, the night hunters identity is a secret, as such a vigilante would be pursued by the law:
Though she is an agent of justice – many would say vengeance – Vayne's activities are not sanctioned by Demacian law
-Vaynes judgement
freeformline3 votesI think Riot's writers are making an effort to ensure Demacia is not stuck in the clear role of "the good guys" compared to the "the bad guys" in Noxus. They seem to be trying to emphasize the rough parts of living in a society obsessed with justice and honor, so Demacian ideals can provide just as much personal conflict as the Noxian ideals that drive the likes of Riven and Darius. I am mostly pleased that they are keeping Demacia and Noxus in shades of grey, but I am a little concerned that they might spend too much time emphasizing they good parts of Noxus and the bad parts of Demacia that they will wind up simply switching which state is the obvious, if morally imperfect, "good" city-state.
LyrebirdSong2 votesI think Riot's writers are making an effort to ensure Demacia is not stuck in the clear role of "the good guys" compared to the "the bad guys" in Noxus. They seem to be trying to emphasize the rough parts of living in a society obsessed with justice and honor, so Demacian ideals can provide just as much personal conflict as the Noxian ideals that drive the likes of Riven and Darius. I am mostly pleased that they are keeping Demacia and Noxus in shades of grey, but I am a little concerned that they might spend too much time emphasizing they good parts of Noxus and the bad parts of Demacia that they will wind up simply switching which state is the obvious, if morally imperfect, "good" city-state.
I think you're right. I've read a few forum posts that seem to think that Noxus and Demacia have a clear Evilness/Goodness respectively. I think that its better to think of what the society values. Demacia seems to value honour and perhaps, rigid adherence to the rules - regardless of the morality behind the rules. Noxus values personal strength, even at the expense of others. Both value courage.
TenshouSNK3 votesIs it true that a homeless guy on the streets of Noxus can become a commander or general if he has proven himself on the battlefield?
That's pretty sick if that is true. I don't like Noxians but if they give everyone an opportunity to shine, regardless of social status, that philosophy is highly respected by me.
Celio Hogane HD2 votesNot just in the battlefield, if you prove yourself in ANY place (Probably including ART) you will get respect.
Noxus respects people who demostrate that worth something.
NegaDKR2 votesYou don't want to be too useful though, Noxus doesn't respect strength, it thirsts for it. Which is why they turned 
, a war hero and 
, a patriot, into abominations used only for war, unable to find peace in death. 
was also able to avoid arrest for double homicide when he walked back into Noxus after learning hemomancy, at least in the old lore.
Celio Hogane HD1 votesTo be serius the Sion release lore talked about how noxians were FREAKING SCARED of what happen to sion, it was not NOXUS who did it, it was SWAIN and his predecesor.
Defin8lyNotScott3 votesI agree that the new Fiora lore is a a new direction when it comes to gender roles in Demacia. This is definitely new, since there were no objections based on her gender in her old lore.
I'm not sure how having such sexist attitudes aligns with the women they have serving in the military. Traditionally serving in the military is a great leveler, because when you fight, bleed, and die in each other's company the walls tend to crumble and you take those attitudes home with you.
I'm sincerely hoping that the overwhelming sexism shown in the new lore is only a small percentage of Demacian culture. I'm not looking forward to each and every female Demacian champion having to overcome the obstacle of sexism. Poor Quinn already has to overcome classism and ageism but now she has to fight sexism too?
It has ramifications for every woman even associated with Demacia. With such a sexist culture, why to some of them stick around? Why doesn't Bandle City send a male ambassador? Kayle loves justice, but does her definition include inequality for women, or is she willing to put up with it because it's the closest she can get? Why doesn't Sona take a tour in Ionia and stay there?
Adding gender roles doesn't only affect the women. The men now have a choice between aligning with society (and being sexist) and being rebelliously progressive. Since Jarvan and Garen are both touted as ideal Demacian males, if Demacian ideals include sexism, they should be sexist, but I really don't want to see that played out.
Ralanr2 votesIt's kinda funny. Demacia sticks to tradition. Noxus experiments with new ideas.
Crowe Stalker1 votesAn interesting thematic is that these ideas don't always work out as planned. I mean, look at . How do you think 
's Chemical Warfare influenced how the world views Noxus?
Ralanr1 votesDangerous, unpredictable, dishonorable, and a threat.
redniwediS1 votesGo read Lux's Judgement. It's part of the old lore, so it's not really canon anymore, however you should find it to be an interesting spotlight on Demacia's other side.
Chromatic Eagle1 votesI know about signing people up for the military, that how do you go from that to waging honorable duels and exiling people? You'd expect them to be more militant and disciplined. It also raises the question on whether or not Lux is expected to marry someone.
redniwediS1 votesAs a Champion of the League that would be doubtful, however the League does not exist in the current timeline...
It's possible a storyline will come up where Lux finally snaps, likely due to a forced arrangement like this. She follows the rules because she has nothing left, so what would happen if she is about to lose herself too?
Chromatic Eagle2 votesI'm not talking about the League, but the old lore made Demacia look militant. Everyone serves, or is expected to be a fighter, even the nobles. New Demacia feels more like a traditional kingdom with political marriages, but now have a huge emphasis on honor.
Dreamspitter1 votesAs a Champion of the League that would be doubtful, however the League does not exist in the current timeline...
It's possible a storyline will come up where Lux finally snaps, likely due to a forced arrangement like this. She follows the rules because she has nothing left, so what would happen if she is about to lose herself too?
Dat laugh doe.
GreenLore5 votesI think Fiora might be actually jealous on Lux,because Fiora always wanted to be a fighter,but was never really given the chance,but lux was basically forced to become a fighter.
Dreamspitter1 votesI think Fiora might be actually jealous on Lux,because Fiora always wanted to be a fighter,but was never really given the chance,but lux was basically forced to become a fighter.
Interesting angle.
Gapybo1 votesIt seems like the same Demacia too me. You break the law, you get executed.
Helmight1 votes[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=sw6lwvr4,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-08T21:03:36.324+0000)
So with Fiora's new lore, I'm a bit curious, and possibly confused about the state of Demacia. In some ways, it feels more cruel than Noxus. These people are so obsessed with honor that they're willing to kill each other for it, while dishonor means either the offender is exiled, or the entire family.
Then we have gender roles in Demacia. Fiora had to escape being seen as a political doll, but what does that mean for other Demacian women?
The only reason that House Laurent was to be exiled is because Fiora's dad fucked up big-time by trying to sabotage a duel. Duels are meant to be honorable battles, and breaking that honor - especially for a duel between nobles - is unthinkable. That's why they were to be exiled - and I'm sure that that punishment is quite rare indeed.
The only reason Fiora's dueled so many men is because they don't respect her, and because she prefers bladework to politicking anyways. Fiora'd much rather fight than deal with slights against her house in a more peaceful manner, and the men from other houses keep thinking that she's just a pretty face because of their gender roles. The two facts play off each other quite nicely.
Other Demacian women avoid dealing with gender roles - for the most part - by being warriors. Quinn and Valor proved themselves and got a fairly massive reward indeed - but it is mentioned that a lot of people in Demacia weren't happy with their becoming noble. Lux is in the military, which is likely to be a lot less restrictive due to its nature. Shyvana's a half-dragon - nobody's going to try and put her in a box she doesn't want to be in. Vayne doesn't give two shits about Demacian culture, given how obsessed she is with hunting down black magics. She likely never uses her noble status at all. Sona was born into it, but gained a special status because of her fame as a performer.
I actually really like it being clearly stated that Demacia is patriarchal. It plays up their hypocrisy and finally gives us something bad that we can hang on Demacia's door. Noxus has always been so evil in appearance and Demacia's never had something to tarnish their reputation. Now, things are a bit more grey between the two.
Chromatic Eagle2 votesLux didn't choose the military. She was drafted by her parents and it messed her up.
I'm not against Demacia having some greyness, I'm just not sure why they went for patriarchy and obsessive honor instead of a possible religious fanaticism for the military. Will we still get that with Lux and Garen?
Helmight1 votesOf course we'll still have that with Lux and Garen. It'd be pointless to retcon them, and that way we have both. Multiple things can be wrong with Demacia, after all.
Chromatic Eagle1 votesBut why would Fiora have to fight so hard to avoid noble tradition, if Lux, who's a noble as well, gets to avoid that by being forced into the military? Why would her parents force her out of one gender role into something unconventional if her parents also appear to be traditionalists?
Feels like Demacia will be rewritten in some areas.
what you deserve1 votesSo.. Basically like Japan?