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Rioters put more than you'd think into making these skins. So cut them a break guys

Hexs Fortune·11/25/2019, 4:53:41 PM·45 votes·15,387 views

I was casually checking in on MF mains when I came across a thread discussing Riot Stellari leaving her job after being unable to get over the disappointment some folks expressed towards GGMF. Many of us really like the skin, but the loudest voices tend to be the most brutal.

The major issue was the severe animation limitations imposed as a result of GGMF's silhouette being so different from standard MF. They did as much as they could, and then some (Thanks for the custom theme song intro) within that limited design space.

Stellari described how every skin afterwards felt like a personal mandate to make up for GGMF , from the KDA skins to True Damage Ekko.

She has now moved on to a new passion, leaving the door open for a possible return to gaming in the future.

Another thread came up over the new AAtrox ranked skin.

A new Rioter was given the opportunity to design it and took to social media to exclaim her excitement. Many folks responded well, with encouraging words and useful feedback, but others attacked her for being inexperienced, despite the fact that the project went through many hands before reaching the final product.

Rioters are people too. They do the best they can like any of us, so give them time to grow and learn and improve and don't forget to celebrate their successes.

(and a little note from me: Thanks for the awesome True Damage Ekko, (as an MF main) GGMF is literally my most played skin since it came out and please consider updating base VO)

[sg-miss-fortune]

61 Comments

KawaiiDespair11/25/2019, 7:12:53 PM37 votes

rioters are people yes but they are not immune from criticism lol and thinking so because of "muh feels" just promotes mediocrity.

GelsominoKiller11/25/2019, 7:56:30 PM30 votes

Skins are a product. A product is paid in money by the customer and is object of judgement.

I utterly don't care - can't stress enough how much i truly don't - if Rioters are people. Everybody is people.

What matters is that they are professionals, and professionals should have standards, skill and qualification for they are expected to deliver a certain task. If they fail their task, they should be held responsible for it.

TL;DR: I won't refrain from saying my car is a chunk of junk because Joe who made it feels bad about my statement. If Joe is so sensitive, he can deliver a better car, next time.

Noraver11/25/2019, 6:28:49 PM24 votes

So, I have to say I support both sides of this.

In the first case, I hardly believe quitting your job over feeling badly about a skin you've created is the right reaction. I believe the skin looks alright. Only seen it a few times, but it looks fine. To work in the gaming industry, you need thick skin. People are going to give you feedback constantly. That's how these games work. If you can't handle it, then despite being able to design nice things like skins, etc., perhaps this isn't the job for you.
The new Aatrox skin has been widely received as bad because it A) Looks too similar to his previous skin B) It's a theme that doesn't really fit him

Not only does it look incredibly similar to his Justicar skin, but it looks plain awkward. Almost like Aatrox is running around in spandex. The justicar skin was a nice alter-ego skin, but the Victorious skin took it one step too far. I would've personally gone for a new them entirely this year, and used Aatrox as an example to start a new "Victorious" line; One where they could make him look bruised, beaten, damaged, but came out "Victorious" in the end.

But I digress. The game design industry is an environment where you're going to get feedback 24/7, whether you like it or not. Developers should be glad they have players giving them feedback every day; they should be looking forward to it and treat it all as a learning experience, whether it's good or bad. Hell, I work in IT, and I get feedback all the time from users. It's a good thing.

On the other hand, it should never go as far as insulting the person themselves. I mean, yeah, some people are exhausted with some of the devs for creating brokenly OP champions or items, and they get insulted (Called stupid, etc), which comes from frustration of playing a competitive game against these things. But skins? They're entirely cosmetic, added purely for the addition of fun. There never needs to be insults thrown at a designer because they've designed an "ugly" skin, especially when they may not have any say in it. They could be given a "Hey, make this champion a skin in this theme line!" instruction, and that's all they get, we don't know.

Give feedback, even if it's bad. Just be kind about it.

Coins11/25/2019, 6:39:04 PM23 votes

It sounds like she needs to grow a thick skin. You can't please everyone.

Predatorator11/25/2019, 6:50:01 PM21 votes

Skarner Xerath more than 4.5 years since the last skin is quite a break if you ask me, especially when yasuo gets 2 in a year, and kai sa 6

Grouchy Poro11/25/2019, 7:06:00 PM15 votes

no they don't they just want to spam generic skins fo the same 20 champions

Tokishi711/25/2019, 7:37:07 PM13 votes

Damn, if the people who make skins are feeling bad, I imagine the people who design and maintain the client must be feeling like Hitler themselves these days. And if those guys feel bad, imagine how the people who help design the ranked match making system feel. :(

TheDelighted11/25/2019, 6:50:54 PM12 votes

Feedback is always good, no matter the feedback. Yes, sometimes it can be devastating to have something you worked for tirelessly for days and nights be crushed by the community. However, it's something that all creators know, whether they are a Rioter, a youtuber, an artist, a music composer, a plant, someone will always say something bad of your work.

On the other hand, if the community doesn't like a product then that means there is a flaw within Riot's design process, NOT WITH THE ARTISTS THEMSELVES. The artists themselves go above and beyond to provide content for the game and I'm most grateful for them and respect their work. However, in GGMF example, I'm pretty sure that people were that mad, not because of the quality of the skin but with the price. So if anything the marketing department should be to blame.

Back-end developers, we love you, but when something is wrong/bad, then obviously there's gonna be negative feedback thrown back at you. It's not something personal, but currently we can safely say that this game has nurtured us. It's been 10 years. If there's something bad, we gonna shout. <3

So, good luck on Stellari with her new project, she provided some amazing content for the game and she will be missed.

hiyares11/25/2019, 7:28:48 PM8 votes

honestly, it is not the employees fault it almost never is but the problem of just being okay with whatever a company will give you is even worse. its like you go out to buy a tv and it was advertised as a paper thin big screen and when you pay for it they bring out an old 18 inc tv with a built in vcr and say well its the best we could do enjoy.

Y ì11/25/2019, 6:04:01 PM7 votes

If it's a good skin, it's a good skin. If it's a bad skin, it's a bad skin. But yeah, you're right in the part that we shouldn't be blaming the artists. We should blame riot themselves for putting such limits on a ULTIMATE skin.

Ahri Baka11/25/2019, 7:11:11 PM7 votes

I get your point and I wholeheartedly agree , but it's also sad how 90% of who upvoted this are the same people who complained about the Aatrox skin anyway.

2Charmnot2Charm11/26/2019, 4:34:05 AM7 votes

Rioters are people too.

So? If they want me to buy a skin then they better make the skin good (especially when it’s a ULTIMATE skin.)

I have gifted a friend pulse fire ezreal back in 2013, brought DJ sona for myself on DAY 1 and the E.Lux for myself when it went on sale. (E.Lux is definitely worth the full price but I was saving RP for other skins)

If this game manages to last another 10 years I will still be able to look back and not regret buying these skins, because for their time they really felt like they were the best skins ever.

That feeling is 100% something I’m not going to get from buying the GGMF skin. Hell I got that skin for free on my smurf account and I still play with other MF skins over it.

To me GGMF is just an half assed legendary skin with the ability to swap chromas between 3 (or was it 4?) during the game. Sure there is a few different animations for her ult, but that’s about it. Meanwhile the Lux skin forms are drastic changes from the model, the spell visuals and sound effects, and her voice change to fit that form. And the best part, there are ten forms for E.lux. 10 legendary quality skins in 1!

The only reason GGMF is legendary+ Imo is because it has a voice over. All the 2017 legendary skins that came out before her (Ahri, Riven, Lee, Yasuo, Vayne, Cait) clearly had more effort put into them and the “must stay close to base” excuse falls flat when the whole purpose of legendary skins (especially ultimates) is that they are a complete reimagining of the champion.

Sucks an talented skinner couldn’t handle the one time her work doesn’t completely wow the community. But its not like we actually begged for her to re-sign, we just didn’t fork over the money (the skin still sold well regardless) and simply chose to forget it exists.

It could have been worse though. She could have been the one behind piss tails Ahri [sg-miss-fortune] must suck for whoever had to take the fall for that mistake.

KFCeytron11/26/2019, 7:30:56 AM6 votes

An artist who can't handle criticism is like a restaurateur who can't handle accounting and cleaning. Also:

There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses.

–Bjarne Stroustrup

CominTowardsYa11/26/2019, 4:44:20 AM5 votes

Who are you, Riot Stellari's boyfriend or something?

If people make crap skins, they don't need any encouragement to do anything but to not let the door hit them in the hind quarters on the way out, so someone else can design the better skin.

Good products are good only if they are good.

Do men who design skins need positive feed back and encouragement for their crappy skin creations they design too?

Aatrox had the worst skin ever as a ranked reward. Worst!

Did any men quit their jobs because of all the negative feedback on the forums?

Why aren't you talking about that?

RyzeRework11/26/2019, 6:52:53 AM5 votes

I feel like if your quitting your job because of what some kids say on the internet then you shouldnt work at a place that puts you in the position that's like working for Gordon Ramsey and making a mistake and expecting him to not roast your ass

ﬂoo11/25/2019, 7:30:47 PM5 votes

I don't know what people have against gg mf, it's not a bad skin at all.. I love every last bit of it and really started playing her because I got it from loot.

Aatrox doesn't have to be everyone's favourite, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.. the animations are pretty nice, the splash art is amazing and despite what some say, his model far from the worst, come on.

In addition to this, the recently leaked skins for preseason are incredible, all of them!

Argent Wolf11/26/2019, 2:14:33 PM4 votes

It's art. We don't have to like it. I'm actually sorry I bought that ggmf skin because I never use it. I bought it the second it came out because MF is one of my favorite champs. I was super excited about her getting an ultimate skin, but after playing it and seeing the bugs, I was pissed and felt ripped off. It's also not as smooth as something like Captain Fortune, and frankly not Ultimate Skin quality. That's why Riot isn't releasing ultimate skins anymore. They said 'maybe someday', but I feel like they'll just do prestige skins instead. Actually, I wonder if it's too late to refund GGMF. I forgot about that option.

RhastaFhasta11/25/2019, 11:05:29 PM3 votes

of course they do, cause it makes them money thats the only thing they care about! who cares about the insults and or criticism you think they care? NO! all they care about that cash they make from people buying skins

HeroineSam11/25/2019, 9:52:52 PM3 votes

"but the loudest voices tend to the most brutal."

... Truer words have not been spoken.

PaffWasTaken11/25/2019, 11:26:46 PM3 votes

In any single professional sphere there is out there who gravitates around client opinion, not a SINGLE piece of feedback should be considered a BAD piece of feedback. If you can't handle that what you did wasn't the right thing to do for some people, you either failed to deliver or expectations were too high for your situation, p e r i o d. You shouldn't be immune to feedback solely because "you tried your best" or "people were mean to you :(", the whole point of feedback is to either adapt the product, or do better on the next. Do Riot skin designers adapt the product? They NEVER, and I mean literally NEVER redid a skin from sketch based on community (read: CONSUMER) feedback, so they fail on this point. Do they try to do better on the next one? Depends of which designer. If the one you are talking about quit because of a past mistake, it clearly was because they didn't feel like they fulfilled their expectations on how they can do better. Is this normal, to quit a work space where expectations are too high? YES. IT ABSOLUTELY IS.

Even if you say "Riot employees are people too", LITERALLY EVERYONE IN A SIMILAR ENVIRONMENT OF WORK ARE PEOPLE TOO. Are they under the same expectations? Yes! And they aim to fulfill them, they are not immune to what the customer think of the service/product they deliver to them and they should not be, or else this service/product looses ALL its value. I've had formations and studied to become a Programmer. I've had several classes and formations who didn't rely at all on anything related to programming; those classes were completely focused on how to identify and fulfill a client's needs. In this kind of contract, on the opposite of those based on artistic products, the client doesn't know anything about what they want and how they want it. So, this whole process is based on F E E D B A C K and, guess what?? Negative feedback is NECESSARY, or else you can't identify a client's needs.

Let's come back to Riot's skin designers. What if they have the big sad because some big meanies said bad things about their work? Does it mean they the meanies should stop? NO. The bad feedback is the reason why an updated or future product will get POSITIVE feedback! Who cares if this feedback is aggressive or not? Should they be protected from it like children because they have a small fan club representing a vast minority of the customers, or because "omg they are people too!!!1!", like everyone else? Big and hard no. If they can't improve or can't handle the heat, we shouldn't hold their hands and go down with them, we should encourage them to do better.

The Dreamwalker11/26/2019, 4:28:22 AM3 votes

I don't think OP was saying not to give criticism, but that people shouldn't be like "YOU FKING SUCK THIS SKIN IS HORRIBLE KYS". I think instead giving useful feedback is far nicer than just straight up insulting the person. So, actually say what is wrong with the skin, what you don't like, and so on.

There is a hard difference between giving constructive criticism and straight up being a d word.

VelvetCrotch11/26/2019, 6:42:33 AM2 votes

What she left just cause of that?? And not cause some other guys sexually harassed her and farted in her face? Well art is always heavy dependent on taste. But leaving for one harsh criticism?

Honestly even the skin didn’t match ultimate standards it was much more pretty than many other skins in league in my honest opinion!

Impersonally can’t get behind starguardian cringyness or some Halloween skins and especially these cowboy skins.

I would love some balance guys would leave after getting flamed all over again or the guys who are responsible to Lee and Ryze buffs every worlds

TheMan29211/26/2019, 3:16:10 AM2 votes

I think most people dont get mad at the people making skins. I think most people (including me) get upset at the people who decide who gets skins

Captainn Ginyu11/26/2019, 1:57:05 AM2 votes

my issue is the very small pool of champions they use for skins there are some still sitting around that havent seen a skin in like 4 or 5 years

Tormentula11/26/2019, 7:51:22 PM2 votes

So a skin designer who plays league of legends quit the company because of critism?.

I don't think she was working in the right franchise if this is why she truely quit. She plays the game, right?

Regardless, she seems a very soft shelled about the subject, she did amazing work with the KDA skins but now quits because after reaching expectations she's too pressured to continue making quality? If I got an ultimate skin for my main, solidifying thats the only ultimate skin I'd ever get for it, and it was so clunky and bad that riot themselves wouldn't charge full ultimate price on it, I'd be pretty upset about a missed opportunity too. Idk how many MF mains are happy with just getting the skin in the first place, but majority can agree that low quality ultimates shouldn't become a standard and they should push for full price quality each time instead of pump out whatever they rush for the deadline. Take your MF skin, and now imagine if it had more development time to be full price.. yea it could be that much better if you already love it.

Riot especially showed that mediocrity in skins does warrante improvement; I didn't hear anyone cry about the feedback for 2015 SKT skins being redone after collective feedback from even SKT said they were trash, they owed up to it, remade them, even created an additional skin, and everyone was pleased.

Another thread came up over the new AAtrox ranked skin.

A new Rioter was given the opportunity to design it and took to social media to exclaim her excitement. Many folks responded well, with encouraging words and useful feedback, but others attacked her for being inexperienced, despite the fact that the project went through many hands before reaching the final product.

Ok no, vic aatrox is inexcusable lol. Not only was it a poor choice just like the recent past victorious skins (fucking maokai?), but what they pumped out only reflects to riot that free skins don't deserve the same quality as regular skins, and that season rewards will just be mediocre and not worth grinding for year after year. That's not even getting into specifics such it just being a justicar clone. I don't agree with attacking the designer directly, but whoever ok'd the final product or came up with the idea does deserve to be criticized for it, and refraining from that to show we'd be ok with even victorious amumu next year with just blue and gold bandages isn't acceptable. By giving the "you tried" sticker you're just proving they don't have to try very hard to make a product, push it out without harsh backlash, and get a paycheck.

Deathfall11/26/2019, 5:56:28 PM1 votes

I think the frustration comes more from a place of why these champions are not getting model, kit and art updates. Nothing these Developers do will be good until the art, kit and model is modernized. Old models, art and kits are the problem and take away from the potential of what talented artists can do.

Stellari is actually a sweetheart. I didn’t mind Gun Goddess MF. I have more of a problem with MF’s outdated model and VO then anything else. It’s the same thing with that new Karma skin. Players are frustrated her art, model and kit problems are not being worked on. No decent looking skin is going to make players feel better about their champions being flat out ignored, when champs like Lux and Ryze get something every year.