Things in Fiora's lore that need explaining

"There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of the thirsting gods"

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"Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt"

"By their deaths you shall know them."

#IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FUTURE...

http://i.imgur.com/rgg81Te.jpg

That comparison is so fucked because even the Imperium is Egalitarian as fuck because it's literally "humanity vs every god awful thing that crawls, walks, slithers, and flies in the galaxy". Which is what Demacia has been set up for as a while so this misogyny doesn't make SENSE.

Noxus was built around a goddamn skull mountain, for Mike's sake - they have evil painted all over them. Demacia meanwhile was golden-haired knights in shining armor with nothing awful about them at all.

Ah, I do hope Riot keeps this mental image. It's amazing. I feel it's what Demacia and Noxus ought to look like from a surface-level.

Lux's story implied a darkness to Demacia. Instead of going with a military culture, they decided to go with a traditional patriarchy. Someone being upset at the story doesn't mean they did a good job. Not saying they did a bad job either.

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Still a part of Demacian culture. Remember that Fiora was a noble - in places like Demacia, I guarantee that nobles pay their way out of their commissions more often than not. I'm also assuming that the "dolls and dresses" part was before she was old enough for compulsory service.

But we haven't SEEN that at all. We've seen quite the opposite honestly. Nobles being hauled off without their consent to the army because it's expected of the nobles to give EVERYTHING to Demacia. And even if it was before she was old enough, why would she still have to train in secret? She is simply practicing before her inevitable term in the army. Why would you not want your daughter to be prepared for that?

Demacia never had a meritocracy. They were always ruled by the nobles, and it was always implied that it was a patriarchy. Even if the implication was never there, it fits with what we know about Demacia's hypocritical society and stands as a sharp contrast to Noxus, where anyone can rule if they have power.

Xin Zhao, Poppy, Quinn, Shyvana, hell even GALIO are all given their positions based entirely on merit. The patriarchy was never really implied outside of there being a line of Jarvan Kings, and even then we don't know if that's just because the oldest child was always a son and never a daughter. Also how do you go from "There was always one implied, and if there was never one implied" from sentence to sentence?

And nothing about Demacia has been hypocritical. It's simply zealous and committed to a point of extremism. Their ideals held true but they were very iron-fisted about it and DIDN'T accept hypocrisy.

Nor has the power of their women decreased. If anything, it's increased because the champions we've seen have had to fight for what they've got against the cultural restrictions.

Yet all those women are now in a spot where every single one of their character arcs is going to be about how they fought the patriarchy. I would've been fine had it just been House Laurent, but making EVERY Demacian household work this way takes a lot from all of the characters by making their arcs largely the same.

Everything that has come to light has been completely on par with Demacia of old.

It is most certainly not but okay.

Demacia's thing was and has always been "justice - by law, or by sword." If you break laws, you are expected to be punished for them. Having draconic laws makes sense, and at any rate the "one man's crime" was a big deal. Planning to sabotage a duel between nobles is unthinkable, so it makes sense that his entire house would be punished too.

Draconic laws are fine, but this is OVERLY Draconic. It's like that aspect of the Demacians was ramped up to 11. To be able to murder a woman (and by extension his father since he must take up the duel) because she refused to marry you being ALLOWED in Demacia verily shits on what their image was before this.

Not everything is settled with duels to the death, but Fiora isn't respected by the men of the court and prefers bladework to politicking anyways. The men believe they can beat her - after all she's "only" a woman - and then get offed. And nobody's learned yet.

"Refuse to marry me? DUEL TO THE DEATH!" "Someone in our house committed a crime? DUEL TO THE DEATH!" "Talk shit? DUEL TO THE DEATH!"

And honestly that's still unexplained and random misogyny that has no real place.

Constitutional monarchy's still in place, but they don't have to get involved in every noble spat. That's what the law is for.

Is it? We have no reason to believe this isn't changed. And a reassurance that it is would still be nice considering.

It's still grey, mate. Patriarchies are not inherently evil, and the use of the trope here is important for the development of Demacia in contrast to Noxus. And at any rate, Demacia needed way more grey. Noxus was built around a goddamn skull mountain, for Mike's sake - they have evil painted all over them. Demacia meanwhile was golden-haired knights in shining armor with nothing awful about them at all. They needed more to dirty them up, and using something that people nowadays regard as awful is a good way of going about it. The fact that you're this upset about it means that the Riot staff did a good job.

It's not important to the development of Demacia. Retconning them into misogynists when everything that they stood for before has them as being very egalitarian isn't "developing". It's simply smearing their image uncreatively. Demacia had MANY flaws and the fact that you say this shows how little you're actually being subjective here.

They had incompetence on nearly every level of command. They were surrounded by enemies and creatures, becoming the punching bag of nearly everyone without any chance of retribution. (Cho, Malphite, Kog, Hecarim, Sion, Swain, LeBlanc, Talon, Katarina) They were zealous and overbearing, sending children to be trained and brainwashed into super soldiers. They held judgement on EVERYONE equally, and the Measured Tread is one of the more ominous things written about them. They are isolationist, quick to accuse, overly subjected to authority.

Like they had a host of flaws but were still good, and deserved that because of how fucked over they are in literally piece of lore they show up in. Now they're assholes who are overly ignorant in the face of adversity for no real given reason.

And no, me being this upset that Riot has, in my eyes, fucked up. I'm fine with Demacia having flaws, but I want their previous flaws to be expanded upon rather than their previous positive attributes simply being done away with so that the setting can be more grey.

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I thought NOXUS was the meritocracy of all meritocracies, where only strength, ability, and skill mattered -not race, class, gender, or who your parents were?

That aside, compulsory service is the reasoning behind Lux's old League judgment and I don't know what's going to happen with that.

Quinn's still promoted to knighthood, Poppy and Shyvana are promoted to high offices simply based on merit. Both Noxus and Demacia work off a very military focused meritocracy, but a meritocracy nontheless. Just Demacia's was less about being ambitious than it was dutiful.

I'd have to reread Fiora's lore, but I think her being at the top because of birth doesn't equal gender roles. Fighting for them doesn't necessarily mean gender roles either.

Lux's family also served in the military. That doesn't equal sexism.

Vayne's story doesn't really explain what she had to go through to maintain being the head, but that doesn't have to include sexism.

That is true with Shyvana, but that felt more because of her being a half-dragon than a woman.

Quinn wasn't a noble. Demacian could've had a classicism problem rather than a sexist one.

Demacia wasn't bluntly sexist, and only vaguely sexist. Feels weird to make them the sexist nation compared to Noxus (Katarina), Bilgewater (Ms. Fortune), or even Freljord (Ashe and Sejuani).

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The thing about the patriarchy...it was always there.

Fiora was head of a house because she had to take her honor back. Even in her old lore was it suggested that her ability to be at the top was purely because of birthrites. She ahd to FIGHT for them.

Lux's position doesn't even have power. She was forced into the military because her BROTHER was famous and a great soldier, and they wanted their daughter to not seem useless, so they tried to fashion her like him.

Vayne is the head of her house because she's the only one LEFT in it.

Shyvana is an outcast and made it in because JARVAN gave her a chance.

Quinn has her position because she proved her merit DESPITE being female.

Demacia was always a patriarchy. They just had more female champions.

Sona's adopted mother was also the head of her house, and no it wasn't a patriarchy because that's STILL 2 women being the heads of houses compared to a confirmed 1, which is Big Papa Jarvan. We don't know who between the Crownguards is Master but they seem to have equal footing from Lux's judgement. Also Quinn proved herself despite being a COMMONER, which is what her lore was originally about.

You've also completely ignored Poppy in this post.

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The patriarchy implications in Fiora's expanded lore do need some light shed on them. I've taken to understanding them as something done by the 'noble houses', but the implications are far reaching in their society. It's a really dirty shotgun blast that can hit a lot of characters and not make it pretty in the process.

In what fashion?

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Come on Jaredan & the lore people!This is released content.You guys should be willing to talk about this.

It's been an hour.

Good reply to OP question but how can you forget about the Lady of Luminosity :P. I think she is different though her family is much closer to the crown and they are the main branch of the crownguard, her family had more expectation for her rather then making her a pawn for marriage. Not only that she is a talented sorceress which can be more reason to not use her as political marriage but use her for military purpose.

Also I just realize why Fiora is rival with Lux. Lux is treated better then Fiora. Fiora has always been belittle because she was a girl but Lux has always been given respect.

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Maybe nobles(or women) are an exception here? I mean Fiora was more or less raised to be a tool for political marriage,so it wouldn't surprise me if noble women like that could be an exception.

This is something I'd liked explain. If so does this mean that Lux is a special case? Along with Quinn? And is this just so they don't have to draw women getting eaten in Splash arts along with all the other Demacian soldiers?

The compulsory military always made little sense to me,I mean does Sona look like she was/is going to the military?Quinns lore also sounds more like she joined willingly. Though they might have compulsory military services in times of dire need.

It made a LOT of sense. Demacia's constantly beset by shit like Brand, Cho'Gath, Kog'maw, Malphite apparently, Sion, Swain, LB... They're constantly surrounded by danger, so it makes a lot of sense that they MUST bolster their forces with conscriptions.

Also the military does not imply direct fighting. Sona could've gone 2 years as a healer or a morale-raising performer. There's a lot to do in an army.

While demacia has many female champs,how many of those are actually in some kind of leader position?Right the only one is Fiora. Vayne is the head of her house because everyone else is dead,Sona is a noble,but not in the military,quinn might be exceptionally skillfull,but still has a rather low rank,shyvana is in a similar position. The only other woman who has some kind of political status is poppy who is an ambassador. Its not that they see women as simply inferior,just that women are usually not seen as leader figures and that sometimes noble women are supposed to be married off to an influental suitor.

Sona's mother, and if the implication in Sona's lore is that her mother died without leaving any heirs, then Sona herself even though she is an ADOPTED IONIAN WOMAN, is the leader of House Buvelle.

And it's very implied that Quinn is risen to the ranks of nobility similar to Knighthood, and there's nothing else stating that the nobility keeps people from joining their ranks this way. The most we get is Quinn's village telling her it's too lofty a goal and that there were those in the Military who thought that Quinn lacked the proper training.

Also this isn't a "sometimes women are married off", the lore expressly states that being married off is a noblewoman's ONLY PURPOSE.

Demacia was always said to be rather draconic when it came to stuff like honor and justice,its just that this was always kind of an informed attribute of them that we never saw in the lore. While I agree that a whole noble family getting exiled for one incident is kinda over the top,it was already a part in fioras old lore that duels to the death are not an uncommon way to handle these things.(Fiora herself threatened to kill her father in the old lore) Now you are seeing the world in a black&white view. Yes Demacias system isn't all good,but just because there is some bad stuff in it doesn't mean the whole country is suddenly evil. Grey happens if you mix black&white.

"Rather" Draconic does not mean "Your entire family is exiled from Demacia for one crime, and I challenge a woman to a duel to the death because she refused to marry me".

And I'm not, had you read the end of my post. This isn't making Demacia "grey" by simply retconning what made them good in the first place with no explanation as to why. Demacia was always grey because of implied Xenophobia, zealotry, CHILD SOLDIER BRAINWASHING, and their "everyone is equal under Justice" applying harsh but fair punishments to even minor offences.

This is taking an aspect of them that made them optimistic and good and simply erasing it in favor of a more cliche system of government for no given reason.

Uhm what? This was never the case in demacia(except for the gender roles) I mean seriously thats the one thing that has always been criticized about demacia,that your birth determines what you can become and what not. All the generals(and I guess also all the knights) in demacia are nobles,while everyone who isn't a noble has no chance of becoming a general. Thats pretty much the one thing where noxus is the nicer city state,because in the noxian military your skill is the important thing,not your lineage.

Quinn expressly proves that you can rise from peasantry to Knighthood, Xin Zhao isn't even Demacian and he's the right hand of the King, Poppy and Shyvana are raised to high station completely based on merit. Also the ONLY three generals we've seen are Garen, Jarvan, and the unnamed one in Hecarim's lore. And we don't even know if HE'S a noble.

Demacia has always been a meritocracy, but a more controlled and orderly one that rewarded duty, not ambition. One might take YEARS to rise the ranks to knighthood or above, but they can do so without murdering any of their superiors. Noxus you can do in a month before you're offed by the one below you.