There Is No Reason For Shen To Be Neutral

PapaGreg21··2 votes·1,495 views

I expect many downvotes (which is funny) but thing about this logically first.

Outside of several priests exterminating demons, I haven't heard of any times within the lore of humans attacking the spirit world and trying to slaughter demons or other creatures from the other dimensions. However, these creatures are constantly coming over to Runeterra and trying to cause as much mayhem as possible (void creatures, shadow isle creatures, etc.) Shen isn't as much neutral as he is extremely reactionary to violence. I read the story about some priests that were destroying some spirits and Shen decided to murder them. I took the side of the Holy men in this story because they are probably sick of Rek'sai, Kog Maw, Cho, Shadow Isle ghosts, and seemingly thousands of other creatures appearing from out of thin air and slaughtering everybody they see. They probably said "we are going to fight back and try to exterminate the ghouls from this area to save our families from more attacks."

Put yourself in the Holy man's shoes. They spend most of their day praying and living a largely uneventful life. Every so often the sky opens up and unkillable monsters blindly kill everything in sight. These demons may have slaughtered their families or loved ones and completely devastated their lives. So they finally say to themselves "let's be proactive here and try to stop some of these monsters from wiping us out by getting to them first." As soon as they do that, Shen arrives and murders them for it (another instance of Shen being late to the battle). Maybe Shen should have talked to them about why they did it and he probably would have found out that these guys are sick of waiting for Shen to hunt down monsters AFTER everybody has been killed like on the boat. They were being resourceful and proactive in ridding the spirits themselves.

And let's be real here. These demons don't have a culture or conscience. They have done nothing but act like piranhas waiting for a chunk of meat throughout the entirety of lore. I find it hard to believe that Shen will ever fight against humans again to protect demons that they are picking on, whereas he is going to spend 99.9 percent of his battles protecting humans. I don't even know why he wants to keep the two worlds balanced. The spirit world keeps going to the physical world picking fights but I can't imagine the people of Runeterra ever having incentive to want to go to the spirit world and try to mess up some of the spiritual creatures for fun or any other reason except they are sick of constant supernatural attacks.

Anyway, I enjoyed the story nonetheless and am excited to hear more about Shen. The writers are very talented in making these stories come alive. Hopefully Shen realizes his false sense of being neutral is just an interesting character flaw that he will figure out was incorrect along his journeys.

15 Comments

GreenLore7 votes

I doubt that the void creatures have anything to do with Shens job,they aren't spirits,they are monstrosities.

Also the reaction of the "holy man" is rather extreme. What he is doing is essentially "oh some evil spirits attacked us?let's kill every spirit we find",he is pretty much trying to do a spirit genocide here(or at least do one as good as he can),its like burning down a whole town just because there is a criminal in it.

The thing that the holy man wanted to kill at the end wasn't a demon,but a regular spirit that has probably never hurt anyone.

I mean keep in mind that Bard is a spirit and he is someone who protects the balance of the world,so saying that "spirits have never done anything good" is also wrong

PapaGreg212 votes

You can hardly call the holy men's actions trying to genocide an entire dimension of creatures. That is hyperbole. They merely exterminated the ones that were close to their homes as a proactive precaution. If you were in their town and had demons appearing out of the air and ripping people apart, I doubt you would be discouraging trying to rid the area of some of these monsters before Act 2. I assume most people in Runeterra consider the Void and Spirit world to be the same. Just a place from another dimension where monsters come and kill everyone. Though the reader may know the difference these guys probably think they are all from the same Hell

Sluiceway5 votes

It seems to me that the demon Shen spares attacked the village as revenge for the holy man cruelly destroying weak spirits out of some personal hatred of them, or just with zealous fury. As Shen readies himself to kill what appears to be a monster, this happens

"Suddenly, a distressing sound stayed his hand. It was a shrill, ghastly cry, emanating from the very air itself. It sounded familiar, but before Shen could identify the noise, he heard it again. And again. And again, culminating in a chorus of blood-curdling shrieks. These were the cries of dying spirits. Shen’s eyes darted back to the demon, now beginning to stir from its slumber. Shen took one more look at his spirit blade, calmly weighing his options. He then clasped his hands together, carefully focusing his ki, and disappeared in a vortex of crackling energy, leaving the demon alone on its sandbar."

He then appears back at the sight of the wrecked ship, where he feels terror in the air, to find the holy man who gleefully offers him the chance to murder a bound impish spirit that is clearly frightened and struggling against its impending destruction. Then Shen realizes that to maintain balance he needs to kill the brutal holy man who provoked the greater demon's attack on innocent fishermen. It is this that makes Shen neutral: he assesses each situation he is confronted with dispassionately in order to determine the truth and act upon it without hesitation.

Placentas1 votes

Spot on man.

GreenLore1 votes

{quoted}

You can hardly call the holy men's actions trying to genocide an entire dimension of creatures. That is hyperbole. They merely exterminated the ones that were close to their homes as a proactive precaution. If you were in their town and had demons appearing out of the air and ripping people apart, I doubt you would be discouraging trying to rid the area of some of these monsters before Act 2. I assume most people in Runeterra consider the Void and Spirit world to be the same. Just a place from another dimension where monsters come and kill everyone. Though the reader may know the difference these guys probably think they are all from the same Hell

Thats why I said

do a spirit genocide here(or at least do one as good as he can)

He obviously can't kill every spirit,but he kills as much as he can;).

And like I said already,the holy man kills all kinds of spirits,he kills innocents as well.

Also again you disregard the fact that there are good spirits as well,as Bard is described as a spirit.Spirits have the ability to be good or evil just like humans. And the void creatures seem a lot more physical than the spirits.

The Last Ballad4 votes

Shen's neutrality isn't a interesting character flaw, it is his entire purpose in life, which he struggles with. His neutrality serves to make sure that his actions are just, but being just isn't always the compassionate thing to do.

And your assessment of the spirits lack of culture is entirely unfounded, as none of the story takes place in the spirit realm. Ionian's entire theme is based on Asian culture, and in Asian myths the entire spirit realm is a complex structure of beings with a hierarchy, usually based on age. The demons are destructive and attack humans, before being dealt with by hero's, while the benevolent spirits shower good gifts upon heroes/the populace in general.

And who is it to say that the spirits don't have issues of there own that Shen helps them out with?

Dreamspitter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Last Ballad,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ngw38V0F,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-04T06:42:11.483+0000)

Shen's neutrality isn't a interesting character flaw, it is his entire purpose in life, which he struggles with. His neutrality serves to make sure that his actions are just, but being just isn't always the compassionate thing to do.

"But without it....we'll die."

http://i.imgur.com/uudiAcm.jpg

Bard " ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬"

http://i.imgur.com/hWLKuDj.png

Tesla Effect1 votes

Balance in all things = True Neutral

GET IT RIGHT!

Valaran Nara1 votes

Well, I would like to assume that Shen looked at the demon more like a random animal that ate a few chickens from the farm and the holy men as hunters that go out killing random animals for sport.

One did it for survival. The other did it because they wanted a trophy.

This isn't to say the holy man did it purely for sport, but the way he treated the imp spirit in the end showed that he may actually have some form on enjoyment from hurting the spirits.

Dreamspitter1 votes

{quoted}

I expect many downvotes (which is funny) but thing about this logically first.

Outside of several priests exterminating demons, I haven't heard of any times within the lore of humans attacking the spirit world and trying to slaughter demons or other creatures from the other dimensions. However, these creatures are constantly coming over to Runeterra and trying to cause as much mayhem as possible (void creatures, shadow isle creatures, etc.) Shen isn't as much neutral as he is extremely reactionary to violence. I read the story about some priests that were destroying some spirits and Shen decided to murder them. I took the side of the Holy men in this story because they are probably sick of Rek'sai, Kog Maw, Cho, Shadow Isle ghosts, and seemingly thousands of other creatures appearing from out of thin air and slaughtering everybody they see. They probably said "we are going to fight back and try to exterminate the ghouls from this area to save our families from more attacks."

Put yourself in the Holy man's shoes. They spend most of their day praying and living a largely uneventful life. Every so often the sky opens up and unkillable monsters blindly kill everything in sight. These demons may have slaughtered their families or loved ones and completely devastated their lives. So they finally say to themselves "let's be proactive here and try to stop some of these monsters from wiping us out by getting to them first." As soon as they do that, Shen arrives and murders them for it (another instance of Shen being late to the battle). Maybe Shen should have talked to them about why they did it and he probably would have found out that these guys are sick of waiting for Shen to hunt down monsters AFTER everybody has been killed like on the boat. They were being resourceful and proactive in ridding the spirits themselves.

And let's be real here. These demons don't have a culture or conscience. They have done nothing but act like piranhas waiting for a chunk of meat throughout the entirety of lore. I find it hard to believe that Shen will ever fight against humans again to protect demons that they are picking on, whereas he is going to spend 99.9 percent of his battles protecting humans. I don't even know why he wants to keep the two worlds balanced. The spirit world keeps going to the physical world picking fights but I can't imagine the people of Runeterra ever having incentive to want to go to the spirit world and try to mess up some of the spiritual creatures for fun or any other reason except they are sick of constant supernatural attacks.

Anyway, I enjoyed the story nonetheless and am excited to hear more about Shen. The writers are very talented in making these stories come alive. Hopefully Shen realizes his false sense of being neutral is just an interesting character flaw that he will figure out was incorrect along his journeys.

I don't know...but my gut says maybe.

http://i.imgur.com/dQT9AEP.jpg

Stars Shaper1 votes

There is a differnece between being neutral and keeping balance.

Neutrality is kind of "I don't want to get involved, do as you want", while balancing means interfer against the dominant factor to bring things on a 50/50 ratio. Also don't foerget that Shen can actually travel and see the spirit world himself so he might have a better knowledge of happening, we might not even know if anything of the Runeterrans do can have bad consequences in other worlds/dimensions/realities. Also the "natural" state of the universe is chaotic which means Shen and the order will have toa ct accordingly to bring things in a balanced state in order to preserve the actual state of things.

PapaGreg211 votes

I agree that Shen is more balance than neutral. Perhaps I used the wrong word there. However, to create balance within the world doesn't mean the same thing as improving the overall condition. Let's use a fridge of food for example. Would you want a good balance of rotten and good food inside of it? Of course not. But on the flip side you would want a balanced diet of food with grains, fruits, meats, etc. So in one example balance is favorable for the overall environment but in the other instance balance is unfavorable.

Because of the hostile condition of most of the spirit world (from everything we have learned so far in lore) we have an extremely lopsided balance of spirits attacking the physical world as opposed to physical world attacking the spirit world. The spirit world is quite often the instigators in these conflicts. Could there be an equal amount of peaceful beings in the spirit world that are constantly under attack from humans trying to destroy them? I doubt it. As humans ourselves we can understand there is little incentive for us to go to all the trouble of interacting with the spirit world just to start destroying creatures once we are able to do so.

The "Holy Men" in the story of Shen seems to be not only an extreme case of humans invading the spirit world (it makes no sense that this would happen often in Runeterra), but because of the one sided nature of the attacks, I feel it was probably justified if we knew more about the Holy Men's history. If they were just killing spirits out of religious obligation it would certainly be a unnecessary and possibly unethical action. But I am assuming that these men have had some interactions with spirits before and had seen the great evils they could do as so many people are constantly being slaughtered by ghosts or monsters or void creatures, etc. that they were probably just sick of being the bottom of the food chain. Thus their killing of the spirit creatures was more of a per-emptive move to ensure their own safety rather than an arbitrary act of viciousness.

Just my feelings on the subject. All of this is just something that was created in the minds of a writer though, so who knows.

Stars Shaper1 votes

You are assuming that spirits = evil since you are making the rotten food comparison. And yur reaction is exactly what's to be expcted by a "average guy" and why Shen's mission is not clear by outsiders. It's clear that the Twilight Order (or whatever is called) has a deeper knowledge of the spirit world than most of Runetrrains and us. He acts not without a previous judgement over the situation, to make a comparison see how in his long lore he gets right in the center of Noxus to fight invisible enemies basically saving the ppl who had invaded Ionia.

Ofc everything will be filtered by our perception of "right" and "wrong" and we also set the edges of the "grey zone" which (from what I guessed) doesn't exist for Shen, he sees the line of balance clearly and he knows the means to keep the world on that.

PapaGreg211 votes

I appreciate your thought out response and agree that not every spirit is incredibly malicious. However, let me ask you how often do you think the physical world is attacking the spiritual world as opposed to the opposite? This was the main goal I was trying to make with my post. The instance of the Holy Men killing spirits has to be incredibly rare while spirits attacking the physical world seems to happen all the time.

I feel like the Holy Men's attack is almost forced into the story just to make it seem like there is some need for "balance" between the two worlds as opposed to Shen being simply a "protector" for the physical world (which would make much more sense.) If the Holy Men story didn't exist as an isolated example of attacking the spiritual world, it would seem bizarre that there was a need for balance at all with the lack of attacks on the spiritual world.

Stars Shaper1 votes

To be fair, I don't have the slightest idea. I just put my trust in the writings and that our lack of knowledge of how the spirit world and its connection to ours works might make us unable to understand many things.

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