Leona: Old vs New

Mandaari··25 votes·2,649 views

A lot of people are saying that the lore changes are no big deal because the characters are pretty much the same. As a big fan of Leona I'm here to say that they're not. Ending up in generally the same place doesn't make you the same person. Skip to the analysis if you know her lore well enough already.

#Old Leona Leona was defined by her utter refusal to harm people. She detested the culture she grew up in. As a child she would routinely break up fights between bullies and their victims. In her reflection (remember those?) she doubted that she made the right choices in defending the weak. When the Rite of Kor her doubt caused her to blame herself for all of the kids' deaths.

When it was her turn to fight she refused to inflict any meaningful harm upon her opponent, Molik. Then she proceeded to publicly denounce the culture of killing and accepted her impending execution. Her friend, Pantheon, tried to convince her to finish Molik yet she still refused. Even as she was about to die she was noting her happiness in how her shame would overshadow Molik's.

Instead of being executed she was saved by the sun's light and claimed by the Solari. The Solari gave her the special armor and sword and then trained her.

At the end of her reflection we discover that she's still guilty about failing to protect all of the kids that died during the Rite of Kor.

#New Leona The first few paragraphs of the new lore describe the harsh society Leona lives in and why it's necessary to be a strong warrior. Then it mentions how Leona killed all of the creatures and "pallid, eyeless strangers" (yes, that means people) that came down the mountain without a second thought. That is until one day she had a change of heart and refused to kill the helpless, bat-wing child.

The next thing she knows she has to fight Pantheon, who ratted her out for showing mercy. During the fight they're wounding each other, and both are trying to land death blows.

Before the fight could end naturally it was interrupted by the Solari elder. It was the elder who believed that Leona would be the one to fulfill a prophecy. The section about the trial by combat ends with her being brought to her new way of life.

Following the her trial by combat she trains and studies hard, becoming a warrior-priestess. Eventually she comes to command her warrior-priest order and gains the reputation of being "just, devoted and, some might say, [a] zealous servant of the Sun." (Oxford comma where?!).

Much later she escorts Diana to the elders. Some stuff happens, some elders die, and Diana runs off. Leona claims the only path open to her is to hunt down Diana with a vengeance. Leona followed Diana up Mt. Targon, enduring by "letting fury sustain her."

Instead of finding Diana, she finds the bat-winged boy she spared so long ago. Upon taking his hand, Leona gained the divine power of the sun. She was still in charge of her body, but shared it with some divine presence that granted her knowledge and power.

Finally she set off to share her new knowledge with Diana.

##New Leona: The Lightbringer

In this story Leona defended her people from a band of raiders. For brevity's sake I'll try to heavily summarize it:

Raiders attacked. Leona and her Ra-Horak defended. The spirit inside Leona wanted to instagib the raiders, but Leona restrained it even though she, in part, wanted to let the spirit cleanse the them. Eventually her will to protect her land overcame her restraint and she let loose her power.

#Analysis There's no good spot to put this, so I'm just going to put it up front. Leona and Pantheon are no longer friends. Even worse, they're enemies. That's a big "fuck you" to a lot of people. HAVE YOU SEEN THE COMIC?!

The first things I note when I compare these two lores is that the new one is way more fleshed out and that Leona has more purpose. She has a reason to chase after Diana, and she has an enemy that she actively needs to defend against. The old lore didn't have either of those. It ended with her being some holy figure or, if you go back to the reflection, with her joining the League for some pretty weak reasons.

The part that drives me crazy about the new lore is that it changes who she is. In her new lore she is unyielding in her drive to protect her people. She shows restraint, but aside from the incident with the kid she never showed mercy. Growing up she's presented as just another (albeit talented) defender from her tribe. In her fight with the raiders she showed restraint, not mercy. She never gave them a chance to turn away and she never tried to disarm her opponents. The scene immediately went to fighting.

In her old lore she actively defied her culture of killing. She broke up fights, refused to harm people, and she would rather die than take an innocent life. But Mandaari, the lives she took in her new lore weren't innocent so it's not a fair comparison. Correct. The old Leona was never put in a position where she had to choose to kill someone evil or let someone other than herself die. Sure, she doubted her actions because they may have indirectly led to deaths, but she never directly let another die through inaction. So yes, it's not at all a fair comparison.

The thing is that I have no idea what old Leona would have done in that scenario and now I never will. Instead of testing her character by forcing her hand Riot just made her a different character who has no problem killing someone in order to save another. Honestly I hope Leona would kill someone if put in that position, but I'm also OK if she doesn't. I want to read that paragraph where she desperately looks for a non-violent answer and fails. I want to see how her morals let a loved one die and how she deals with the guilt. If she evolves into the warrior she is in the new lore then so be it, I will be 100% on board with that.

As I started to write this I thought that the old and new Leonas more or less ended in a similar position and that it was really the journey that changed. However, as I delved into their stories I realized how completely different they are. The only similarity in her character that I can find is that she's still a fierce defender and that she has a moral compass. How strictly she adheres to her moral compass is a different discussion. There are all sorts of bits and pieces where her character is different. Old Leona never acted out of fury or vengeance and she would sooner accept her death than take someone's life in trial by combat.

Don't get me wrong, I like where she ended up in the new lore. I like that she has a sense of direction and how she's a fierce protector. I like the depth of the storytelling. I like that she has to restrain this being inside her. I'm on board with changing the events surrounding a person to a degree, but not one shred of that matters to me if you take away the most important part of Leona: She was a pacifist to a fault. That part of her is 100% gone.

36 Comments

JacctheInsomniac10 votes

[deleted]

Mandaari6 votes

I think there were two things that Pantheon had that people attached to:

  1. He was the pinnacle of human ability.
  2. He was friends with Leona.

Neither of those are true anymore.

Mirage Night7 votes

Outside her 1 time lapse in judgement, new Leona is almost as murderous and zealous as old Diana. Some how, they effectively swapped places. Considering their play styles and in game narratives, the new lore are far from what I know them as.

GreenLore3 votes

I'd say that new leona matches her playstyle a lot more given that Leona is one of the most agressive supports in the game.

Also Leonas ingame dialogue doesn't really contradict her new character either(and at the end of the lore she might have been back to her old self after she had the revelations about the history of the solari)

Diana on the other hand really seems a bit odd,considering that her VO is full of hatred and bitterness and that her position in the story basically changed from antagonist to protagonist.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

To be fair, Leona doesn't actually do anything to help her ally other than diving and CC. She doesn't heal, shield (without items) or provide the ally with any buffs (other than her passive proc). When you're playing Leona, you are there to kill the enemy, because if they're dead, they can't hurt your ally.

Mandaari2 votes

Why is it the lore that got it wrong and not the gameplay?

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

Neither, I just think people emphasize way too much the "Peaceful Pacifist" they think Leona is. Sure, she is agaisnt killing an innocent, or even facing agaisnt tradition, but they need to keep in mind, sometimes you need to protect others by eliminating the threat.

Mandaari2 votes

How is it being emphasized too much? Pacifism might not be the right words, but stopping violence was her entire character. Like I said, I'm sure when put in a position where she needs to eliminate a threat she probably would. There's a big difference between doing so without a second thought and doing so reluctantly. The new lore shows zero reluctance.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

It shows zero reluctance because the people were murderers and killers. Why? Because they are dangerous people who will inflict harm on others if they live.

But when she was faced with a helpless monster kid, she couldn't bring herself to slay him, helping him instead. Doesn't that say something?

Mandaari3 votes

It says she has the same morals expected from anyone. You could substitute virtually any other "good guy" in that situation and it wouldn't change. Again, old Leona hated violence to a fault and that described her entire life, not just one out-of-character scene. The old Leona would not have just refused to kill the boy, she would have owned up to it without being ratted out and then refused to duel Atreus to the death. Old Leona was a martyr. Again, there is absolutely no reference to this in her new lore.

Spitemaster1 votes

Well, to be fair, she'd probably duel him. But she wouldn't kill him.

GreenLore1 votes

The thing is that it is still outstanding among the targonians.

I mean by that logic then any other "good guy" would have refused to kill their opponent in the rite of kor...

Not to mention that old Leona did fight her opponent during the rite of kor(and she knew it was supposed to be a fight to the death),she merely didn't kill him off.So going by that old Leona would have likely fought atreus,but would have refused to kill him if she won the duel. New leona however never even managed to get that far because atreus was just as strong as her unlike old leonas opponent who was rather weak.

Mandaari1 votes

Making her outstanding among Targonians isn't saying much. It's also beside the point in that she was much more than outstanding among Targonians before. She was outstanding period. If she had been from Demacia and broke up fights on the street that still would have been outstanding. The fact is that Riot changed her personality. It doesn't matter if it fits better with the society or if it's more realistic. They should not be changing anything about her whatsoever.

I don't see how it follows that any other good guy would have refused to kill their opponent. New Leona is a good guy in the sense that she has morals, but will do what's necessary to protect her people. I keep seeing people say that it's normal to kill people to save your people regardless of your morals, and that that's why she's still like old Leona. Old Leona was not "normal" like that. Everything in old Leona's story leads me to believe that her ability to kill someone to protect her people would be compromised in some way, whether through hesitation, guilt, or refusal.

Old Leona fought but she didn't aim to harm or maim. She disarmed her opponent and didn't shed any blood at all. She never fought with the intent to take his life. New Leona fully intended to kill Atreus. As far as we know from the new lore she felt no remorse about trying to kill him. Let me ask you this: If old Leona had fought a stronger opponent do you think she would have fought with the intention of killing him?

Old Leona fought the rules of her society, not just bad people. The only part of her entire story where she showed any semblance to who she was in her old lore was when she spared the kid. That's one single scene whereas her old lore's entire theme was about her showing mercy.

Clouded Magi7 votes

TLDR; If you enjoyed the lore from before season 4 then just pretend the new lore doesn't exist because absolutely nothing Riot has put out since the Freljord event have done anything but drive core fans away (bilgewater event aside) while trying to wow casual players who don't know what the original lore was.

InHaruhiWeTrust5 votes

agreed. panth was a little bitch that snitched on her rather that confront her? wtf? and diana now has all the angst.... [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Baron of Bread2 votes

Atreus probably knew he was going to have to fight her when he told his parent about what she did. He wasn't avoiding a confrontation, he was going through the proper avenues of starting one.

InHaruhiWeTrust1 votes

are you a male?

Baron of Bread2 votes

I don't see how my gender has any relation to this discussion. Please elaborate as to why it does.

InHaruhiWeTrust1 votes

male is sex, but w/e lol men i general are raised to be upfront and not be shady. my dad always taught me to never snitch on someone and to confront them like a man and let them know you have a problem. this is something that women rarely understand or can relate to.

Baron of Bread2 votes

I don't see how going through the proper authority is being a snitch. Does calling the cops after seeing a crime instead of running over and giving the criminal a stern talking too make you a snitch and emasculate you? No, it doesn't.

And for your reference, I am male. It should be obvious considering my summoner name uses the male version of the Baron title.

InHaruhiWeTrust2 votes

snitch: "to turn informer; tattle." verb. tattle "to let out secrets." verb. that's how... first it depends on the crime i guess. if i see someone getting mugged i'm not gonna call the cops i'm gonna go help the person, not sit there talking to on the phone while this person is getting their ass kicked and then wait for the cops to show up 15-45 min later after the muggers left.... but i think a decent analogy is if you see someone smoking weed and yes you are a snitch for calling the cops because you see someone you think is smoking weed(i use weed as an example because(like not killing the batkid) there is nothing wrong with it other than being against the law(which says nothing to somethings morality)) ex pantheon didn't know who it was that she letting through and could have asked her to explain herself. that is what an honorable man would do, and think a "warrior" would be even more so inclined, instead of jumping to conclusions and going a telling his daddy like a little bitch.

plenty of dudes use female titles and things in their name and visa versa. i never assume i know anything about someone base solely on their name tag.

Baron of Bread2 votes

Nothing wrong with it other than being against the law? As far as I could tell basically all of other spirits that they had been told to kill were dangerous. Leona believed that the bat-kid wasn't, but what if she was wrong? Laws are laws for a reason (especially in that kind of society) and disobeying them can cause danger for the entire tribe.

What would have come of confronting Leona immediately? If bat-kid turned out to be dangerous then Atreus would only be making it easier for the thing to kill them both. If the thing didn't then he would be circumventing his tribes laws. It would be a lose-lose situation for him.

He wasn't being a sissy, he was abiding by the laws of his people.

InHaruhiWeTrust4 votes

"as far as you can tell" means nothing. they could have been dangerous they could have not been. the "law" was to kill/murder whatever came down regardless of what it was innocent or otherwise. laws are nothing more than an opinion that is enforced with violence by whoever holds the monopoly on force in a specific area. the solari hierarchy hold that monopoly in this case. what if the bat kit was the savior of her entire people?(spoilers he kinda was) "what if?" is not an argument. what would have come from confronting loena? idk probably she would have said "this boy is scared and quite obviously harmless. then ex panth would have agreed or not(probably not) and told her to do her duty or he will be forced to turn her in. she then probs would have said she could not fulfill her duty and went back and turned herself in and fought panth and been back to the same place the story went anyway.(thats actually more interesting than what they wrote IMO). not everyone thinks in "what if?" all the time like you do. men of action, take action when they must and deal with what comes. ex panth was(supposed to be) a man of action which makes his decision to tell his daddy what the big bad leona did while he was peeping on her or something not make very much sense(or at least is very lame and uncharacteristic) he was a sissy. i would never have done that because it was dishonorable, and i would be condemning someone to death without knowing everything about the situation. i would rather die myself then let and innocent person die because of my own ignorance and unwillingness to find out what was really happening. but i guess thats the difference. i'm not going to follow a law if it is unjust or wrong, while you think people should follow the law even if they know its wrong.

Baron of Bread1 votes

"radiant creatures that kill at random and muttering voices that whisper unspeakable secrets to drive mortals mad." Yeah, pretty dang certain that the vast majority (if not all but that one) of the things from the mists are very dangerous. That law about killing them seems pretty justified.

"the laws of the Rakkor" The law she broke was not a Solari law, it was a Rakkor law. But that's beside the point.

Atreus didn't condemn an innocent to death, he decided that she should explain her actions to the tribe and that his moral judgement was not better than that of his tribal elders. When it came time for Leona to say her part she didn't dispute anything, she accepted her elders' ruling. She accepted that she had wronged her people in helping the bat-kid, and she was ready to pay for it. Atreus did what he was supposed to and there was no reason to not do what he did.

What you would have done in the situation is irrelevant as you are not Atreus (and you aren't old Pantheon either), no matter how much you think that you are similar. You did not grow up in a highly religious warrior tribe in a land of scarce resources and otherworldly monsters. Your ideas of honor do not apply to Atreus, they probably don't even apply to a Brit from 300 years ago (guy touched my hat, honor dictates I duel him). If you want to try to understand who Atreus is then you need to drop your modern ideals and think in terms of his world.

Besides, even using modern ideas about honor i don't see how anything Atreus did was dishonorable. All he did was report the breaking of a law to the authorities.

DragonShea1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nME1Jbjq,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-02-27T09:27:54.040+0000)

Atreus probably knew he was going to have to fight her when he told his parent about what she did. He wasn't avoiding a confrontation, he was going through the proper avenues of starting one.

Atreus is a bit of a bitch. but Panth seems like a demigod that possesses a body when shit about to get down.

Baron of Bread2 votes

Why do people think that about Atreus? He went and climbed a mountain for months so he could gain the power he needed to protect his people, a mountain that kills basically 99.99% of the people who climb it. Everyone else who went with him either ran away or died.

joliesse5 votes

All I wanted was for Pantheon and Leona to be good friends item 3070 and honestly when they announced that there would be extended Mount Targon lore coming up I was so looking forward to seeing that confirmation...

Valaran Nara3 votes

Well, if I'm correct, in the old lore, Leona became the celestial aspect of the sun sooner in her life.

And while you say she did change a lot, I can equate this to Batman.

How?

Well, in Earth 1 (which is the universe of the original Batman), him ad Superman (Pantheon) or good pals.

Superman: "Hey, Buddy." Batman: "How are you, Old Chum?"

Now, there's current Batman and Superman who, since they don't know each other, are constantly at odds due to trust issues. So, what happened? Well, each of the characters were given more depth in who they are at the core.

Now, I'm not going to say your'e wrong about the original Leona NEVER giving in to rage to try and attack someone, but at the same time, that Leona was also created as the pure "defend all" character. Her inner conflict would purely be "should I kill"? Which, while I do understand can be a big one, seems a bit short sited if it's in a very general sense in a society all about "Kill or be killed".

Old Leona was able to get away with what she did because as far as we knew, it was just a cultural thing to be "great warriors." Did they fight for any other reason than for survival and to be great warriors? Uh...not really (and yes, I know how crazy Malphite's run through Targon was). No. Now we know that they have enemies at the base and monsters that constantly appear.

The difference between current Leona and past Leona is the fact that she's willing to survive and do what it takes to protect her loved ones. Even if it means ending another's.

Now, in her color text, she could have let them go. She WOULD have let them go. She wanted to show them mercy, but she knew that the enemy would return. It was a decision that flashed through her mind. Should she let them go after killing their leader. She knew they would fall apart as long as the leader is dead, so she aimed for the head of the snake to lessen casualties on both sides. After that was done, she thought about her next action as the enemy ran. She concluded that they will only come back (as warriors would) to continue fighting in what they believe in and for their homeland, so she pressed the R key. If they weren't warriors but a random band of thieves or bandits who didn't understand the might of Solari, should probably would have let them flee, thinking they'd have been frightened to the point of never watning to pick up a blade against another again. Unfortunately, she had no luxury.

The only time in the lore she was afforded that Luxury was with the demon boy. She showed him restraint by not killing him. She showed him mercy by assisting the winged boy.

Also, if you really want to make a cheap shot at old Leona (which I'm about to do, so you may rage at me for it)...

Don't you think she's a bit of a goody two-shoes? I mean, in a culture where they raise warriors from an early age, she decided to say, "No, cause hurting others is bad!" in the old lore, she probably would have been the only one to listen to Diana's plight, but Diana is full vengeance mode, and might fight Leona who embodies and personifies exactly what she despises. And given Leona's position, it doesn't make sense for someone who refuses to hurt a soul be the one sent to say "Hey, stop this," towards a violent murderer. But nope. They do it, cause Leona will be typical good guy hero.

Mandaari6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valaran Nara,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nME1Jbjq,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-02-27T07:17:20.241+0000)

She concluded that they will only come back (as warriors would) to continue fighting in what they believe in and for their homeland, so she pressed the R key.

Yes, except in the process she didn't show any qualms about it. Not one. She only restrained how much power she'd unleash in killing them. Not one sentence even mentioned her distaste of killing.

Don't you think she's a bit of a goody two-shoes? I mean, in a culture where they raise warriors from an early age, she decided to say, "No, cause hurting others is bad!" in the old lore, she probably would have been the only one to listen to Diana's plight, but Diana is full vengeance mode, and might fight Leona who embodies and personifies exactly what she despises. And given Leona's position, it doesn't make sense for someone who refuses to hurt a soul be the one sent to say "Hey, stop this," towards a violent murderer. But nope. They do it, cause Leona will be typical good guy hero.

Yes. I do think she's a goody two shoes. In fact it's what I like about her. But it really doesn't matter what she is like. Riot shouldn't be changing anyone's character, period. It really doesn't matter how bland a character is or anything. Riot made a character, let it simmer for half a decade, and then changed it. That's not cool.

Baron of Bread2 votes

She never gave them a chance to turn away

When they have marched many miles and came up to the very doorstep of the Solari they had many chances to retreat. Leona even waited for them to make the first strike, she and her warriors let the marauders start the fight.

I never imagined Leona as a pacifist. She might pass-a-fist through your face instead of her sword, but she never struck me as wholly against violence. If she was so against violence then why wasn't she rocking the Braum-style shield fighting? What use would she have for her sun sword if she never planned to kill someone? Heck, even in her judgement she was pretty quick to get violent on Jagen when he stabbed her.

Hildebrand2 votes

Leona used to refuse to hurt people!!!!!1!!!!1!11!

Okay, but none of that is reflected when I could go 16/0 as her top lane.

Fowus1 votes

i'm fine with Diana's lore but what was Riot thinking when writing leona's wtf?????

Kadavik1 votes

Like their new motivations and personalities or not they are definitely more fleshed out than they used to be. Leona and Pantheon's personality other than what little we were told about them were heavily molded by the community through constant fan comics fanart and fanfics. As time progressed everyone had the same head cannon about said characters. Pantheon and Leo are BFFS and Leo is an all caring protector. While one of Leo's most defining character traits in her past were refusing to attack those she cared about and protecting them in no version of her old lore she actively refuses to kill someone whom if not stopped would harm her people. But as time progressed we made assumptions, filled the gaps ourselves and collectively decided on this lovey dovey view of Leona. Now that our own headcannons are being shattered by this fleshing out of their personalities we are lashing back.

Mandaari2 votes

It doesn't matter whether anyone likes them or not. The point is that's it's different and that's not OK.

I'm not saying that Riot has to make fan-fic cannon, but when the majority of the community is on board with something they should show a little respect and not do the complete opposite thing.

While one of Leo's most defining character traits in her past were refusing to attack those she cared about and protecting them in no version of her old lore she actively refuses to kill someone whom if not stopped would harm her people.

I'm not saying that Leona would refuse to kill someone if she had a good reason, but no part of her old lore lead me to believe that she would do so as readily as in the new lore. And like I said in my OP, you're right that she never had to kill someone to protect another. The right way to go about that scenario is showing how Leona evolves by being forced to kill someone, not by rewriting her lore so that her entire life is about killing aggressors. Her first kill (or inability to do so) and her mental state at the time is something her lore should have focused on. The new lore basically says she's been killing aggressors the entire time.

Xulsigae2 votes

Merely because a character is more fleshed out doesn't make that something automatically good. If we got more story and information on Draven that made him actually scared of the sight of blood, it wouldn't be good even as we learn more about him. More details are good to have, but not when they are done poorly or don't fit with characters and what the community thinks of them.

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