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Over a year late to the discussion (IoW Lore changes)

Epiku··3 votes·672 views

Greetings, Summoners! I've never been an active member of the community; choosing to always lurk instead. And I haven't even been doing that as much for so long, until recently. I had stopped playing around Season 4's preseason (I think Yasuo had just come out?) for various reasons. But after I stopped, I still sort of floated around League for some time, following the subreddit and a few Youtube/Twitch channels.

During that time away, I had heard of the lore change/new direction with separating lore from gameplay and, while admittedly silly, it honestly kept me away from League for all of Season 5 as well (there were some Sona aura changes that made me a bit sad, but I haven't tried them myself and those didn't really keep me away so much). Now we're in Season 6's preseason and I want to get back into playing but I'm having an issue with the changes. It's kind of hurt my enjoyment of what League is and what it is compared to other games like it.

And I know it shouldn't, it really shouldn't have this effect on me, because I want to enjoy the game again like I did. From what I can tell, there hasn't been anything in place to fill that void after the removal of the Institute of War, even if it would be equally contrived (which I don't mean as an insult).

I'm not here to whine (especially over a year after the fact), I guess I'm just trying to follow a direction. How did those who really disliked these changes get through it to still be here? Or another way, can anyone just convince me of another side of the argument? I don't disagree with why these changes happened. Riot made that clear. But what was changed and what was left... it doesn't seem satisfactory. (My sincerest apologies if this is the wrong subforum to post this in.)

15 Comments

Sharjo3 votes

But what was changed and what was left... it doesn't seem satisfactory.

Well that's because shit ain't finished. I mean we can measure the quality of the stories gotten thus far, which is essentially two and a half with the broken Shurima storyline, Burning Tides: Reckoning and Shadow and Fortune, but there's still a huge void in the lore right now because not everything's been adjusted for this new Runeterra. The good news right now is that the major development issues that held back the lore before, which were mainly Narrative structural changes and the website/client being shit have been ironed out, so things are actually moving forward, but the bad news is there's still way more to go.

Now personally I like the new lore and I never gave a damn about the institute, so when it went away while I was shocked; didn't see that coming from a mile away, I didn't shed a tear so to speak. I'm also way too damn patient so I don't think I've complained about anything because I'm just happy to get something no matter what it is. With what we've gotten this year I've greatly enjoyed what we got: I really like Bard as a character, Tahm Kench is awesome and the mystery around him is great, I really enjoyed Burning Tides and the Harrowing stories this year. All of these things interested me and engaged me far more than anything to do with the Institute ever did because it's the champions I cared about from the start, and from those champions I'm not experiencing a wider world that's being fleshed out and developed as time goes on, which only furthers my interest. Because of this I'm looking forward to the future what's coming down the road, but there's many who dread what the future of the lore will bring and there's things I can't and won't deny about the lore right now:

1: Shit's still not fixed entirely. We're closer to that goal now than we were even a few months ago but things are still broken and it's not acceptable by anyone except me, who's way too sodding patient a guy. 2: Shit changes. I've personally been either neutral or happy with any lore changes that have come in, but these changes have been DRASTIC in some areas and it's burned many people. 3: Years worth of lore is getting replaced. People really loved the JoJ and it's being taken apart and removed piece by piece. It's hard to say what's gonna stay and people have a right to be upset.

People didn't get over the changes that were made to the lore; they've either railed against them, endured them or accepted them, with margins of error in between depending on what the hell's actually happened at any given time. I'm in the latter camp because I like this new direction and I love the new lore far more than any of the old lore, but that's just me talking and I can't speak for this board. There are people on this board who will vehemently defend the IoW till the cows come home. There's folks who still roleplay with the IoW in mind and play Factions, where the IoW is still treated as a thing that exists. Many people will never be satisfied with the changes that have been made and will continue to be made.

What I'll say to you good sir/madam/whatever the sod you address yourself as is simply this: don't get back in to lore right now. There's too many broken pieces scattered about the place and too much ambiguity about what remains from the old lore and what's going away. This is not the time to get back in to the lore or to start getting in to it at all. I'd almost say you'd wanna wait another year before that, provided it's all done and dusted by then.

If you wanna get involved again then go for it, and take a gander at Burning Tides: Reckoning, Shadow and Fortune, and the extended lores for Gangplank, Miss Fortune, Graves, Twisted Fate, Fiora, Kindred, Kalista, Mordekaiser, Hecarim, Thresh and Karthus, with Illaoi on the horizon and Poppy somewhere around the corner. If you don't wanna get involved then feel free to take that step back and wash your hands of this. I don't believe it's my place to convince you that the new lore is better because objectively it's not right now; it's different. These things aren't quantifiable right now except in the point of the state of the lore as a whole, which is very dubious for the new stuff. Either way we'll be heading back to Shurima soon to pick up the pieces of last year's technical catastrophe for lack of a better word, and then off to Mount Targon to figure out whatever the sod a Targon even is. AFter that? Who knows, but you're free to join the ride or get off now.

I hope this meant something, because I rambled on so long I think I lost the sodding plot somewhere in there.

Epiku1 votes

I hope this meant something...

I think it did. Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to this.

I understand things are still a bit hectic (looking through some old lores, like Fiddlesticks and Nocturne reveals that). However, a friend who never left had told me a little bit about the Bilgewater event and I really like the Freljord event that was going on/concluded as I left. I'm very glad to hear the world-building is getting better and more involved.

Your words do give me hope. I suppose what I am missing is the context that ties everything together right now. Questions I shouldn't ask like, "What is Summoner's Rift," "Why is Ashe against Miss Fortune," or "Why do these people keep coming back to life," which were solved by the old lore are still finding a place. I wasn't trying to insinuate that the old lore was better or anything against the new lore (I don't even really know the new lore, yet). I like the stories they are telling but they just seem so self-contained to me, the very little I know.

Thank you very much for your patience. I was/am worried that maybe this sort of thread pops up weekly and that yelling/dismissing happens shortly thereafter. (I don't really know how these message boards are.)

Sharjo1 votes

To answer one big question about the state of the game, essentially things work like this: the game itself isn't canon. Now that might sound weird, because it kinda is, so I'll expand on that. The maps in the game are locations in Runeterra, the items are objects from Runeterra, the champions all come from Runeterra, but the gameplay of League of Legends is NOT a part of Runeterra. It's pretty much like Smash Bros in that sense, but instead of multiple franchises coming together to duke it out in a game in our case its people from around the world that the lore is set in that brawl in a game. In that vein the maps aren't to scale with their actual in lore counterparts, the items don't build out of other items in the lore, and the champions aren't all able to compete with each other as the game would lead you to believe. If A fellow like Xerath met Teemo in the lore, Teemo'd probably just die right there and then, no questions asked.

The game itself is a nebulous ball where things are dragged in from this setting we call the League of Legends universe, so champions aren't really fighting, and in reality most have never actually met each other. The world's a pretty big place and there's no center stage anymore. Instead the focus is on the nations, the people, and the events that transpire in the world. There is no actual reason behind why the champions fight each other because in reality, they aren't. That's probably the thing that annoys people the most.

One thing I wanna add, even though it'll probably only add to the confusion, is that Summoners apparently still exist, but that's all we know. Summoners are still a thing, but what they do and what role they play is totally up in the air for us at this point. Riot knows, but they have yet to divulge the details on what that means. Whatever they end up bringing out in that regard'll probably have some big affect on how we view game - lore, or maybe not. I honestly don't know.

Long story short here: while the game infers from the lore the gameplay itself, the act of you playing a game on Summoner's Rift, is not tied to the lore in any way. Summoner's Rift exists somewhere in Runeterra, the champions all do their thing, the items are all things in the world, but these things don't come together to make the experience you have in the game within the lore itself.

I hope I didn't screw up the explanation of that and just make it more confusing.

Epiku1 votes

The words you used here fit perfectly with what I've been trying to tell myself. (In fact, literally down to the "Smash Bros." example. o.o)

We went from something like Street Fighter, with interconnected stories crossing due to a contrivance (a world tournament being like the IoW) to something like Super Smash Bros. (not counting Subspace Emissary). A game in which unconnected characters (but with potential to be more fleshed out, given their time in their own spotlights) battle for seemingly no reason or context in random locations.

I suppose I prefer to former and I'm struggling with that change (I'd be heartbroken if they did the same with Tekken, trying to take the same characters but removing the rather flimsy contexts). But neither is better or worse, it's a subjective thing, right? Like it or leave it, I guess (and pray for a bright future). ^_^;

And I didn't know Summoners still existed! I thought they were gone except as what we, the players, are called. That's interesting news to hear.

Thank you again. (Also, I like to think that Teemo can potentially take Xerath in his current partially-still sealed form! Actually, reading Xerath's new "lore" I'm not sure if he is still lacking any of his true power or not... )

Dreamspitter2 votes

There's a lot more people out of the loop than you think.

I've seen 2 threads this month, and maybe in the last 4 months or so, about 5 threads in all.

Sneak Dog2 votes

Welcome to the story board (among others). Things can get heated here at times, especially when talking about retcons, so apologies if that happens and I myself will try to stay constructive.

I'll first talk about the retcon of the IoW, which I can accept, and then about the retconning of champions, which I won't accept.

Personally, I can see why Riot retconned the IoW. The reasons they gave in the dev blog were awful though, at least one of them being factually incorrect. However, I can see how making the game immersive can limit the lore and character motivations more than Riot wanted to. I can accept the removal of the IoW if Riot is not comfortable with writing immersive lore for a moba. Not happy with it, but oh well.

I find that the new stories have been written rather well, so I'm not regretting that decision of mine. Looking at the Shurima short stories Arisen and Vengeance, and the events Burning tides and Shadow and Fortune, I must say the quality of the writing is amazing.

On top of that, the world is fleshing out rather well. I don't like every aspect of it, like Riot insisting on separating the countries so harshly (they insist that a bilgerat might never have heard of Demacia, even though they live in a city of smugglers and sailors, which is just a blatantly ridiculous notion to me), but it feels thought-out and alive.

However, I still have an issue with Riot. They just don't seem to care about the old characters.

I understand that when retconning the IoW, a lot of other things will get retconned. That's fine. I don't particularly care about the geography and we never really got specifics of the culture in Bilgewater. Even a champions' background story can be changed to fit in the new lore, that's all acceptable. It's the champions' characters, who they really are, regardless of situation, that I care about.

And yet Riot retcons this too. The retconning knows no bounds.** They retconned a whole champion out of the game**. One of my favourites too, making me especially passionate about this ordeal. All that was left after this retconning was a mere shell of the old character, a skin. Never again will I read a story about him while he is in this state. (If you disagree that the new Trundle is a different character, feel free to, but thoroughly read this post please and you may note that it pretty much states they're different.)

After Trundle, Riot continued with their disregard for characters. I have seen people argue that the new Ashe and Karma are different, though I have too little knowledge to argue the same. Xerath however, has been portrayed as the politician ascendant, rather than the magus ascendant. (This might be fixed by simply releasing more stories about him though -,- )

Unless Riot, the writer of this lore, actually cares about its characters, I don't want to either. They could be retconned again at any moment. I can't invest in a story where this is the case, just like I wouldn't start reading the first book of an in-progress series of a writer infamous for never finishing its series. Riot has lost my trust.

Unless Riot fixes their mistake, they won't regain it.

So yeah, that's my personal stance on the retconning.

Epiku2 votes

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and opinions.

I'm very glad to hear the world is being built up to be more towards something. Although, that loss of each game having lore connections, having that immersive lore I think is what I am missing. (It's not the end of the world, it's just a nagging feeling in my mind as I play/watch.)

I think I remember the Trundle change. It was shortly before I left, during the Freljord event, right? They were making a lot of champions connect to the region. Some seemed to fit nicely (like Anivia), others, oddly (Gragas), and Trundle was sort of thrown in there, too.

Your words paint a far more cautionary take on the lore as it's evolving than others I've read here. But thank you for them. Any champion lore that has yet to be updated, I should take with a grain of salt that it could change during these times?

Sneak Dog1 votes

Your words paint a far more cautionary take on the lore as it's evolving than others I've read here. But thank you for them. Any champion lore that has yet to be updated, I should take with a grain of salt that it could change during these times?

Very well could. Someone like Gangplank went mostly unchanged, but Trundle got removed. Honestly though, I think Riot might've finally gotten the hint. However, that might also be me just being optimistic. It's hard to say. I hate this situation :/

Kadavik1 votes

I started playing a month before the Retcon. In that small window of time I managed to read all of the JoJ and all the champion bios. When the retcon happened I joined the bandwagon and bitched on with everyone else for about four months. Then after that I started to see the flaws in the old system and just sort of moved on. Then things started to look up. Foundations was created and reds besides Bioluminescence started communicating with us. The turning point for me was when Azir and Xerath's updated bios came out, they were (are) magnificent and very well written. Then Burning tides brought us the awesome Reckoning story and new TF, MF GP and Graves lores. I've loved every second of it, especially all the awesome TF moments since he's my main. Anyway, now I discuss on these Boards to help make the current and future lore be the best it can be.

Epiku2 votes

Oh, so a lot of people were upset when they announced the change? I kept my head out of all of it, so I only know how I felt/feel.

From how it seems the world is growing, and that's great to see. (I just wish there was more of a tie between story and gameplay, something LoL was unique in having compared to other MOBAs that it seemed remove from itself. It was a big reason I started playing in the first place.)

What is Foundations? Is that the Riot team that designs these lore events?

I'm sorry if I'm just treading on ground that was covered, burned, or razed months ago.

Sneak Dog3 votes

Oh, so a lot of people were upset when they announced the change? I kept my head out of all of it, so I only know how I felt/feel.

It erm... was bad.

What is Foundations? Is that the Riot team that designs these lore events?

Foundations is the group in Riot responsible for world-building. They're fleshing out the geography, nations, cultures etc.

Beyond Legends1 votes

Here is may be some reasons why riot hasn't release there new lore for everyone as fast as possible.

  1. Riot might not have touch any of the older champion ie fiddle, noc...etc because they are also planning a large scale gameplay or visual rework that comes with that champion. They want to release the whole package rather than pieces of it.

  2. Riot had a lot of tech issues regarding the websites and in game systems. This is one of the major reason why the Shurima event was so mediocre compare to everything else.

  3. Retcon takes time. People don't understand how long it is to write and make lore. Sure it doesn't take time to think of an idea, but you have to realize that is only an idea. You have to first write up a first draft, then they have to due editing, getting permission form the higher up, edit once more before they are allowed to release anything. This takes weeks if not month to do, it doesn't help that the narrative team isn't the lore team. They have other responsibilities other than writing things for peoples favorite champions. Riot wants to take time in developing its champion rather than rushing some half bake story point that the Iow was.

Epiku1 votes

My apologies. I wasn't trying to insinuate that Riot or the lore was moving slowly. I just wasn't sure what had been announced about the future of these changes and such. I've missed a lot.

I know and accept that lore-wise, some champions are in limbo. It's just how things are, of course.

Also, I had no idea the Shurima event was seen at all as "mediocre." I'm sure they will learn from it if it was, community feedback being as... colorful as it can be.

Sneak Dog1 votes

Also, I had no idea the Shurima event was seen at all as "mediocre." I'm sure they will learn from it if it was, community feedback being as... colorful as it can be.

The event itself was kinda mediocre. Have you seen the videos narrated by Nasus? They're kind of... boring. Yet they were the main lore of the event.

Kadavik1 votes

I liked the second one. Were Azir ascends and we see the sun disc rise majestically.

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