Congratulations Riot - You've started a timeline!

Oleandervine·Apr 30, 2016·85 votes·11,054 views

I wanted to applaud the Riot lore team for finally giving us some lore that starts to weave together the events of Runeterra and give us an anchor for when things take place. The Bird and Branch story effectively places Cassiopeia's betrayal of Sivir and Azir's revival of ancient Shurima with Sivir's blood slightly before the Noxus invasion of Ionia, given that Taliyah had recently escaped Noxus forces when the merchants told her that Azir had revived his capital city. Well done. Now to begin weaving the other free floating story lines into a cohesive world so that Runeterra feels like a living world, instead of a montage of vignettes.

47 Comments

RiotRiotJaredanMay 1, 201624 votes

Thanks, Oleandervine. You need to move the slider along the timeline just a little further than you're stating, but yeah, we want to keep the clock ticking for the world.

ImpetualMay 1, 20164 votes

I"m sorry Jaredan, but LoL's lore has been screwed up so much over the years with you in a position of power (I think...Come to think of It, what are your personal feelings about the Retcon?)

To be honest, it's kinda hard for me to celebrate the creation of LoL lore when I've mostly just been witnessing its destruction of LoL's lotr with you at the wheel Jaredan.

Remember the Journal of Justice? We don't get that kind of quality lore these days. Were you the one that cancelled it Jaredan? Do you agree with the decision?

ImpetualMay 1, 20165 votes

Jaredan,

It's kind of depressing to see you comment on small inconsequential posts on the lore forums while you've continued to ignore most of the bigger broader questions about lore for years.

Jaredan, I'm starting to think that you are just a customer service specialist. You keep responding to hard questions about lore with soft answers in an attempt to keep dancing around telling people what's going on at Riot with Lore.

Since the Retcon, I don't really have any connection to this game anymore. I don't feel invested anymore. I don't care about this game anymore...

Although I do care about it's lore...the original lore. I think that it's the saving grace of the League of Legends.

DownfallMay 1, 201619 votes

Impetual,

I disagree with you.

Tesla EffectMay 1, 201612 votes

{quoted}

Impetual,

I disagree with you.

Everyone that has a brain disagrees with him.

ImpetualMay 2, 20161 votes

But for some reason they mostly don't ever seem to have an actual argument to support that point. They just say they disagree and move on, like sheep following their shephard.

And also, I get the feeling that a lot of League of Legends lore fans probably didn't play this game in season one. Sure, there's a couple of people out there like me who have, but I think a lot of people haven't. I'm not trying to play the elitist card here, I'm just trying to say that a lot have people who currently play League of Legends never actually experienced how awesome the lore used to be...and from that stand point, it's easy to hate what you don't understand.

I'm just trying to explain how different players may have different interpretations of what LoL lore should be.

I personally tend to hold Riot's lore production to the standard of Season 2. It's fallen quite a lot since then in my opinion.

Savage DeviMay 2, 20162 votes

Do we need more? It's all based on opinion, and explaining it isn't necessary to someone like you. You're the one claiming that your opinion is superior, and that Riot should bend to the will of the minority simply because. You're the one with no actual argument, just "change is bad"

ImpetualMay 2, 20161 votes

Are you seriously asking the question: "Do we need more?"?

Riot's shown us that it can create better, more interesting lore at a faster rate that is currently is! And then you, as a consumer are asking " do we need more?"

It isn't about what we need, it's about Riot's potential...especially when it is seemingly purposefully under-producing compared to it's previous works.

Riot has shown us it CAN provide more!

I love League of Legends and want Riot to produce the best game it possibly can.

If Riot can do more, then it should. Although I admit it may unrealistic for Riot to strive for this in all things, the pursuit of being better will likely be beneficial to the company overall.

Savage DeviMay 2, 20162 votes

"Do we need more" was actually me asking if people really need to go into further detail to explain their opinions, not if we need more lore. That's my bad, I worded it terribly.

As for the quality of the lore, it's still subjective, but seems that the majority on the Boards disagrees when you say the lore used to be better "pre-retcon". But the quantity? When did Riot supply us with lore more plentifully than they do now? I'd say things like Exploring Targon and The Bird and the Branch show that we're getting a steady enough supply of lore to read. I don't recall a time when we got more, but I sure can remember when we got less. If there truly was a time, could you educate me on that?

XIII VanitasMay 1, 20164 votes

http://ask.fm/RiotJaredan

PyrodiniumApr 30, 201611 votes

I think it is wrong to assume that Taliyah was part of the first wave of Noxian invaders, since Jaredan confirmed that Yasuo met her years into his exile, a the Unforgiven's disgrace occured during the invasion.

GarentheonMay 1, 20161 votes

When ans where did he confirm? Please link please

PyrodiniumMay 1, 20161 votes

http://ask.fm/RiotJaredan/answers/137225812165

GarentheonMay 1, 20161 votes

Thanks

RiotRiotJaredanMay 1, 201637 votes

Yup, it wasn't in the first wave of Noxus's invasion force. The timeline is still there, it's just not quite at the point that Oleandervine speculated. Though it's completely understandable to assume that.

ImpetualMay 1, 20163 votes

Just firmly establish your lore in a concrete way so that there isn't room for conjecture.

This is a retcon. The Lore of League of Legends is going to be raped and destroyed. Don't try to soften it. That's what you did RIot. Accept it. Deal with it.

Own up to it!

Sadly, this is the decision Riot made. Let's get it over with. There's nothing else to do. We don't have a choice. Riot never gave us one.

You fucked us Riot. I don't like it, but there's no use crying about it. Just plainly tell us the state of things now that it's over so we can move on and get over it.

MarbelaraMay 1, 201627 votes

You're like... 2 years late with that statement.

ImpetualMay 6, 20161 votes

Fair enough, I'm just asking Riot to be honest with their Retcon. They should be open with how much they're fucking up LoL lore.

KisindiánMay 1, 201610 votes

What is the problem with you, brother? Seriously, do you even know how goddamn hard and time consuming is to build a world? "Firmly establish your lore in a concrete way", dude, they try to keep up the interest by giving bits of info like puzzle pieces - you can't see the big picture, and it's great that way. They know what they are doing and I LOVE IT (only if these bits came more faster!) It's like, Luke knows that Darth Vader is his father, and then we don't get that iconic scene.

So stop this whining with big words. Jaredan is doing a great work, he's a real teaser though.

KarKzzMay 1, 20165 votes

It's better that way, because it leave room for the player's imagination.

KisindiánMay 1, 20163 votes

Right????

KnalxzMay 1, 20161 votes

That's really annoying the the majority, so much that people leave the lore because it just feels tired and lazy.

KnalxzMay 1, 20162 votes

World building isn't hard, the hard part is ensuring that the reader is aware of the politics of each people within the world. Because most find it boring to read about politics but at times it's best to get a good understandings of where everyone is.

Best example is Star Wars.

The Prequels overloaded the politics, Episode 7 had NONE which made the threat and those posing it very unclear in their goals while the OG films had it set pretty hard that everyone outside the empire hated the empire even those within disliked how they operated so much to the point of rebellion.

We already know the politics of League, it's been consistent with it even post retcon. So the world is there building it isn't hard when most of it is already constructed. As writer who has worked with another setting and created my own universe I found it alot harder to make it from the ground up then using someone's established rules.

In context a friend is also a writer and I co wrote a mini story with him called Plague of Men. I'm currently working on my own novel, Legacy of the Fallen Star which is an intergalactic tale, managing the politics and people hasn't been easy since I've forgotten multiple times of the dozens of species entangled in the events in the story. Mostly because I get so deep into one side and forget another exists. :/

KisindiánMay 1, 20163 votes

You've just written down why world building is hard, gg. :D

KnalxzMay 1, 20162 votes

World building is easy. Legacy of the Fallen Star isn't my first story, it's just the largest dealing with atleast three dozen species, factions fighting over the entire universe and spanning the tale over 17 trillion years about gods and demons fighting for power over universe.

Something more down to earth isn't really hard to make again like I said the politics is the only hard part only because so many people just find it boring so it has to be done in a special way. LoL already has it's politics established, the hard part is out of the way, fun ahead.

ImpetualMay 6, 20161 votes

It's one thing to create a world, and it's another thing to change it.

Changing an established world with rich lore into something else should accompanied by a massive lore retcon with tons of details about what's changing upfront at the moment of the changes.

Gideon96May 1, 20164 votes

If I may ask, when exactly will you guys be fixing all the lore that got made invalid due to the removal of the summoner aspect? Like me for example, I really enjoyed how epic Jax's lore made him seem, but now he effectively has none. Just want to clarify if and when will you will be fixing all the champion's broken lore. I'm one of those in the community that's REALLY into the lore so this is pretty important to me

an Ode to Jax Nocturne Fiddlesticks Malphite Orianna

The Last BalladMay 2, 20161 votes

As far as Orriana goes, her "father" created her to replace his daughter, you could make her a part of the police force and switch the league aspect to the Piltover police force(to explain why she is weaponized).

MarbelaraMay 2, 20161 votes

Orianna is far too uncanny valley to become a police enforcer. This does not fit her thematics at all. I think she might actually be a replacement daughter as per old lore, hidden away in some place where her father could appreciate her and try to get her to become more human; she fails, and is then lost - and thus the paranoia fuel can begin, because there is a beautiful but deadly and unpredictable robot roaming amidst the folk of the two cities.

DwarvenGiantMay 2, 20161 votes

I think that Jaredan said on his AskFM that those kind of champs are actually some of the top priorities that they are currently writing for. Although, that doesn't mean it's coming soon, for such processes may not only take months, but sometimes fail mid-way. :P

ImpetualMay 2, 20161 votes

Jaredan, you're such a slimeball.

You make these posts at the politically appropriate time in order to get fan support, but when the chips are down, and the playerbase is struggling with negative decisions regarding Riot's lore direction you are nowhere to be found.

Where were you during the Retcon? Seriously, you pretty much didn't post at all during that period of lore re-construction.

I know this is gonna be downvoted, but I don't really care.

Jaredan, you're a cowardly slimeball.

It'd be nice if you actuallly comment on constructive lore criticism for once, while it is relevant and can affect actual change, instead of coming to say nothing of consequence in a thread about Riot actually getting something right after it already happened.

MarbelaraMay 2, 20164 votes

Can you maybe chill?

SharjoMay 3, 20163 votes

Impetual doesn't know how to chill if the years have proven anything. This is likely to only get worse as time goes on.

Tesla EffectMay 3, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Impetual doesn't know how to chill if the years have proven anything. This is likely to only get worse as time goes on.

Even when we do get a lore focused game revolving around Runeterra, he would still complain. I guarantee it.

SharjoMay 3, 20162 votes

Oh yeah. Without a doubt.

NaharaMay 1, 20163 votes

Time... line?

Time is not made out of lines, it's made out of circles. That is why clocks are round.

WaffletimewarpMay 2, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Time... line?

Time is not made out of lines, it's made out of circles. That is why clocks are round.

Goddamn it Caboose, I swear I get a little bit dumber every time you open your mouth.

Tesla EffectMay 1, 20163 votes

A timeline was started in a larger way with the Bilgewater events. Before that we only had small things mentioned within the Freljord and Shuriman champions.

DrugsForRobotsMay 1, 20162 votes

I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I think you should put special emphasis on the weaving of stories.

The rest of this is just my opinion, but I hope we can start a discussion about what we mean by lore.

I think you only touch on the larger issue of story telling for Riot, which is that they are attempting to have a timeline (see Riot Jaredan's quote) rather than timelines. It seems to me that Riot is trying to tell a single overarching story featuring all of their characters, rather than using the narrative devices of a frame story, unreliable narrator, and incongruity, among others. In fact, I think promoting speculation and ambiguity is exactly what they need to do. Nothing (or very little) should be set-in-stone or linear. To quote Thomas Mann: "The well of history is deep - shall we not say that it is bottomless?"

What I mean to say is, everyone seems to think that a character's 'lore' means his or her story, which isn't the case. Lore is, by definition, stories. A body of knowledge, beliefs, and traditions held by a particular group about a particular subject. Our heroes don't all have to 'know' each other, or encounter every other hero in the game, or even exist all at once in the same era. To quote master story-teller G. R. R. Martin, talking about a character from his ASoI&F: "No one can even say for certain if he ever lived. He is as remote from the time of the novels as Noah and Gilgamesh are from our own time."

I think Riot needs to adopt that mindset. It's even in the name of the game - legends. Plural. That's not (or shouldn't be) a reference to the 125+ legendary heroes but the legends about each and every one of them.

Thoughts?

The Last BalladMay 2, 20161 votes

I like you, that was well written.

DrugsForRobotsMay 2, 20161 votes

I try. I expanded a bit on my thoughts here.

SharjoApr 30, 20161 votes

What you said can be countered if we consider that when Sivir got VU'd her lore kept references to her cutting ties with Noxus during the invasion, and then being brought in by Cassiopeia after that. Depending on whether that holds true in Sivir's long form lore (which I'm pretty sure it will considering how safe 2013 lore has been and that sivir's VU lore was likely made with athe future Shurima story in mind), there might be no indication as to when these events happen in a chronology.

VasilisGreenMay 1, 20161 votes

It's actualy AFTER the Noxian invasion in Ionia. Yasuo was already an exile when this story took place, that's after the invasion.

KnalxzMay 1, 20161 votes

A note to make OP is I think they had to in this lore update since they had three different nationalities all working in one story. Noxus attackers, Ionain setting and Shruiman protagonist. It'd be really hard not to bring up some kind of date to the story. Any character lack of acknowledgement of certain events like Shurima Rising would mean that it was before that time.

I guess Riot decided it was better to show progression then leave the idea open to the players who'd likely assume the story took place pre-ascension instead of post.