Boards›Story, Art, & Sound

Ashe got her bow from the Watchers and is working for them.

mrmeddyman·7/4/2018, 8:58:00 AM·14 votes·11,967 views

Swain : "She claimed it was the Frost Queen's grave. They believed her."

Taric "That bow is of the stars, as is its mistress."

So we know Ashe lied about finding the bow at the Avarosas' cairn from Swains' secret knowing demon. Her story of being chased by bandits into a random clearing where she magically finds the burial site of one of the most revered heroes of the Freljord that she just happens to be a descendant of is baloney.

But Taric tells us more "That bow is of the stars" he's talking about Targon? (I'm certain the 'as it's mistress' part is just him macking on Ashe)The enemy of Targon is the Void but there still is no connection to the Freljord there. Until you remember that the Watchers are the masters of the Void. They want Ashe on their side so they can take the fight to Targon after she unites the Freljord perhaps? Thus they promised her power in return for her loyalty. Maybe they want to create more "Iceborn" (to me this means nothing more than Void-infected northerners, basically the Freljordian version of Shurimas' Ascended or Mount Targons' Aspects but champions that represent the Void) but the Watchers think Ashe would be more useful than Lissandra, as despite her continued loyalty she has already failed to protect them once before and maybe they have lost all confidence in her (which is tragic considering that her only motivation is to bring the Watchers back as she was the only one appreciated their "gifts" where Avarosa and Serylda didn't).

TahmKench s' quotes reveal more. For those who don't know Kench has Ally and Enemy voice lines for most of the champs he interacts with. In the Ally voice lines he tells them what they want to hear so that they will take his deal and probably get consumed once they trust him and his honeyed wordsif they are on the enemy team he doesn't waste words and instead chides them knowing he can't manipulate them into becoming his dinner.

Ally: "If you wanna' build an empire of peace, then your mortar will be blood." This might reflect Ashe's mindset. Her mother was killed by the constant warring in the Freljord so it's natural that she hates the neverending strife between tribes. She knows she can't undo it in one life time which is why she turned to Watchers for help who gave her the bow that would inspire people to follow her (Ashe isn't a natural leader her short bio reads "Stoic, intelligent, and idealistic, yet uncomfortable with her role as leader") in return for a united Freljordian army who could be turned into a 2nd generation of Iceborn slaves. Tahm is trying to appeal to her rationale to get closer to her.

Enemy: "Girl, you got as much 'foresight' as a blindfolded mole.", outside of the context of my theory this quote doesn't make any sense. Like I said Kench tells his teammates what they want to hear and his enemies the cold truth.

Enemy Fiora "A duel is a fight between two imbeciles... and you are the greatest." Enemy Amumu "I say, you're as 'fun' as a leaky roof." Enemy Gangplank "Your attempt to be monstrous is as successful as your dictatorship."

So why is he bringing up Ashes' "foresight"? She isn't really known for having a flaw that comes from lacking foresight. Unless you consider the possibility that she is LYING to her people and Tahm Kench is insinuating that this lie will come back to bite her one day.

This puts everything into focus: her marriage to Tryndamere despite him being the epitomy of everything she resents a brutish warrior that prides himself on being able to kill anyone (Aatrox notwithstanding ofc) She bit the bullet and married him anyway to reach her goal of uniting the Freljord despite the fact that she probably despises Trynd.

So many questions. How is Braum involved if the popular theory of him being a Watcher/Iceborn in disguise are true. Did he lead her to the bow? Serve as an inbetween for the Watchers? Their emissary?

Guess we may find out more when Nunu drops and we get more lore on the subject.

I really like the implications of this wrinkle. Before Ashe was the shining hero that completely invalidated Sejuani and Lissandra claims. Now I'm not so sure.

51 Comments

RiotWAAARGHbobo7/5/2018, 1:38:33 AM15 votes

No... but also Yes.

You’ve looked at a lot of clues and realized they are clues, moving towards and revealing something.... But you’ve drawn some wrong conclusions. M I can tell you.... arrrrggg! The lore police are focring my silence... agggghh!

....

Ifneth7/4/2018, 2:39:57 PM10 votes

You jumped from the statement that Ashe’s bow is “of the stars” to the conclusion that she’s secretely working with the Watchers. Just mentioning the Watchers, then Tahm Kench and Swain’s vague impugnments, and asking “Is she really a hero?” is idle speculation at best and character assassination at worst.

Furthermore:

  1. Tahm Kench is an evil, manipulative champion who thrives on corruption and misery. He is not a psychologist dispensing useful information to allies and tough love to enemies. Instead, Tahm tempts his allies with their darkest desires and his enemies with vicious insults, in both cases trying to overturn their psyches. He is anything but a reliable source of information about champions.

  2. Swain is arrogant, cynical, and vague. Everything he says about other champions is negative, accusatory, and vague. He is, again, not a reliable source of information about champions. And furthermore, he never says that Ashe deceived her people; even were her bow not found at the Frost Queen’s Grave, she might have believed her own “claim”.

  3. Arguing that someone is ideal and pure and no-one even insinuates anything wrong about, then proceeding to find some insinuations from whatever source, does not make those suggestions believable, much less prove that the character must therefore be the opposite. You’re grasping at straws.

  4. The story of the Three Queens has been repeated throughout the Freljordian lore. One of them, Avarosa, has always acted like Ashe; another like Sejuani; the third, Lissandra. If those stories mean anything, then Ashe is the Avarosa of her time, not just a second Void follower.

Ashe is peacefully uniting and rebuilding the Freljord. She has ended her people’s feuds, brought the Barbarians to her side, and even made peace with Lissandra. The Avarosans breathe easy and free, logging and farming the rich southern land, while Sejuani and Lissandra’s followers raid and freeze respectively. There are no strange sigils on her flag or bizarre rituals in her culture.

Why would you believe the flirtations of a notorious womanizer and accusations of two demons over what you can see with your own two eyes?

Nylisa7/4/2018, 2:30:24 PM3 votes

[deleted]

DeathBurst7/6/2018, 3:06:19 PM3 votes

Super cool theory!

Just a tiny nitpick about Tahm Kench though.

I don't think his taunts are "what they want to hear" VS "the truth". I think the enemy taunts are simply what would hurt them, what would make them angry, what would make them lose focus and make mistakes. And a common way to do that is to use the truth, because people won't get angry if you say something obviously false, they'll just think you're crazy. But assuming Tahm ALWAYS use the truth is a big leap that I wouldn't take.

Specifically in Ashe's case, I'd say he is just toying with her fears, something that she herself has doubt about, something she wonders in her darkest hours. Tahm probably don't know better than Ashe herself, but by making it sound as if he does, he can torment her.

So that doesn't tell us that Ashe is obviously misguided (by following the Watchers or whatever), but it does tell us that Ashe herself isn't fully convinced by the hopes and vision that she sells to her people. Maybe because she's lying to them, but maybe because she's simply worried despite her best intentions.

Meep Man7/8/2018, 12:50:40 PM2 votes

I think the real story is Ashe wished for peace within the Freljord and made the ultimate crossroad deal to be able to wield Avarosa's Bow, at the cost of a future payment to the Watchers or whatever mysterious force she thought she was speaking with. She is trying to build an empire of peace, but she has payed costs that she can't possibly foresee to be so large. Ashe never realized how much using Avarosa's Bow is going to come back to bite her in the behind.

When the Watchers inevitably return, I think Ashe will find her bow isn't as loyal as she thought.

Jerry SeinfeId7/4/2018, 2:03:20 PM2 votes

I really do think you're selling tryndamere short. I don't really play him but i do like him as a character, mainly because he reminds me of Guts from berserk. The main reason Trynd keeps pushing himself and "prides himself" into beating the strongest opponents in the freljord is because non of them compare to Aatrox, his "final boss". No matter how you look at it Trynd fights for those he lost, his people, those who he shared a bond with. Pride has nothing to do with it.

His lore also states he found companionship in ashe: "The wrathful barbarian has long sought revenge for the annihilation of his clan, though more recently he has found companionship with Ashe, the Avarosan warmother, and a home with her people."

Trynd knows it's his burden to bear in the end but has clearly learned companions are at the very least a valuable asset and as he seems to call it home he has softened up to them(, again much like Guts in berserk).

I'm not saying trynd walked up into the city and suddenly got ashe's panties soaked but i don't think they actually despise each other. At the very least trynd seems to feel good enough about the place to not just go and look for the next tough opponent like certain other barbarian we know.

Linna Excel7/5/2018, 1:41:44 AM2 votes

{quoted}

Taric 'That bow is of the stars, as is its mistress.'

She's Aussie and Soraka's Love child!

AurelionSol + Soraka = Ashe

SHOCK!!!

Jaspers7/4/2018, 2:17:19 PM1 votes

...so what your saying is she's Ascended?

Camille Ferrøs7/4/2018, 10:05:27 AM1 votes

We really need a Freljord lore update with ALL the changes thought the years we don't know what did happen what is retconed etc. Freljord is untouched since 2013...

MasterDClone7/5/2018, 5:58:03 AM1 votes

This is a very interesting theory and would be very fun to watch unfold. I proudly support sejuani's faction and cause, and would like to see the impact on them if this is true because if it is then sejuani will be the only thing stopping ashe from bringing the watchers back since lissandra is so devoted to them.

Oleandervine7/5/2018, 2:48:31 PM1 votes

I think you're extrapolating a bit much here. First of all, there were 3 Sisters - each claiming to be the Frost Queen. Ultimately, Lissandra outlived Averosa and the other one, which left her as the Frost Queen. Therefore, it can also be assumed that Swain's secret knowledge is that Avarosa isn't the Frost Queen - Lissandra is. Therefore, Ashe's assumption that she got the bow on the Frost Queen's grave is wrong since Lissandra isn't dead.

Taric's line towards Ashe is also pure smooth talking and flattery. I don't look very deep into many of his lines for other champions, and this is definitely one of them.

As for Kench, his point about foresight is in reference to her dream and desire to unite the Freljord using peace and diplomacy. He's saying her dream is basically stupid, naïve, and ill-conceived because she's trying to unite war mongering using the wrong methods.

The Iceborn7/4/2018, 11:47:03 AM1 votes

Its very interesting an honestly its thinkable that concept of yours but I doubt it very much... Ashe lied about where she found her bow, she might aswell not be an avarosan after all... The watchers have been in the pit for a very long time now and ashe is very young still so there was no contact between them! The watchers wouldnt contact a traitors bloodline so as avarosa did betray them and ashe is supposedly her decendant :/ Lissandra is powerful she tried to work it out and she gave her best to protect them but she is only one against an army of iceborn back then when the war was fought.. The watchers love lissandra as she had a prestigious place to interact between the watchers and the iceborn as a seer :)

A lissandra lore update is coming with nunu as she did imprison him :)

XIII Vanitas7/6/2018, 6:44:38 PM1 votes

My guess is that Ashe didn't find the bow by random chance, but it was given to her by Lissandra, who is covertly playing both sides of the conflict between Ashe and Sejuani in order to weaken their respective tribes.

Stars Shaper7/4/2018, 2:21:28 PM1 votes

Where is written that the watchers are the masters of the Void?