@Riot Unpopular "Monster" Champions - Defining a Monster, are they really unpopular?

Void Kaiju·3/22/2019, 12:46:25 AM·21 votes·15,277 views

##Howdy

(Apologies if this is on the wrong board. Not sure where to stick it)

So, I've been involved in a handful of discussions with people regarding this: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-au/2017/11/champ-popularity-mixing-math-art/ Particularly, the section on "(Un)Popularity of Monsters." I think this chart has caused a damaging attitude amongst the community and potentially within Riot towards monster champions on the whole which should be rectified.

As one tackles the data in comparison to the other charts, it can be easy to take it at face value. But the term "monster" is far less solid than "reworked champions" or "adc." The monster chart in particular seems quite arbitrary in what it defines and does not define as a monster.

#What's A Monster?

They state that there are eight monsters. Aurelion Sol, Rek'Sai, Anivia, Skarner, Cho'Gath, Vel'Koz, Rammus, and Hecarim. And as the conclusions and graph indicate, none of those champions are popular. (Some are niche, though!) But I think that this data is flawed at its very base. As stated previously, what is used to define a monster seems completely arbitrary.

Is it having an inhuman body shape? Then why does it not include champions like Kindred, Warwick, Tahm Kench, Nocturne? Or Kha'Zix? or Twitch or Volibear? How about Galio? Malphite? Maokai? Ivern? Alistair? I'm intentionally leaving out creatures designated as other human-level intelligent races: vastaya, yordles.

Perhaps they were waiting for champions who had already fully settled from any large changes. The stats used in the article are from patch 7.16. Warick and Galio had been recently updated, so perhaps they were excluded because their novelty may have been interfering with analysis of the popularity of their "monster" theme.

Not including them because you're unsure of their popularity being entirely due to the quality of the champion does not mean that riot has failed to make monsters appealing, already highlighting a flaw in the conclusion. But I digress.

Volibear and Twitch can be argued as just being magical animals. Thus justifying not including them. But in that case, why are Skarner (a magical scorpion) and Anivia (LITERALLY THE SISTER OF VOLIBEAR AND A MAGICAL BIRD) included?? What about Rammus, whose lore until relatively recently was that he was just a weird runeterran animal? Not that Volibear would have actually skewed the stats much, but it is an inconsistency.

Were they shooting for _champions whose ways of thinking and decision making are hard to empathize with? Those that have minds that are distinctly nonhuman? _ Warwick was formerly human (although he is also literally based on the hollywood MONSTER the wolfman). Malphite and Ivern both seem to have personalities of their own that reach beyond "rawr, tree man." Tahm Kench speaks and acts like a man. But so do Skarner and Aurelion Sol. And those two are included. This still leaves out Kindred and Kha'Zix, as well as Malphite (his personality is literally just "I AM MADE OF ROCKS").

et cetera.

#Forgotten Beasties and Their Places on the chart

The particularly egregious exclusions imo are Kha'Zix (every other voidborn is on that chart), Tahm Kench (He's a giant catfish on legs who eats people and lacks any semblance of empathy), Malphite (rock solid), Nocturne (his whole identity is monster who kills people in their dreams. He's arguably less human than Hecarim), Maokai (treeant, classic monster. Ivern falls into this category too despite his kindness. Does kindness exclude one from this category? If so other issues with the current selection arise).

This already brings up our number of monster champions from 8 to 12 (13 if we count Ivern). But the other champions I named previously also could fall into the definition of monster based on various metrics.

If we decide to include several from my original speculative list, the results don't necessarily match the conclusions provided. On thair chart, Ivern falls squarely into the unpopular, alongside Tahm Kench. Maokai, Twitch, and Kha'Zix all fell into popular. Malphite was **broad **alongside Alistair. Nocturne, Kindred, fell into the niche category with the already-displayed Anivia, Vel'Koz, and Kog'Maw. Broadening the definition to champions who aren't dominated by failed gameplay updates and long-untouched lore/gameplay challenges the idea that monsters on the whole are unpopular.

Overall, the chart feels skewed by the champions included on it. At the risk of sounding accusatory, it seems like the more popular monsters were left out in order to further the idea that monsters are unpopular as a whole. The issue would be better served by taking a look at monster champions who are unpopular and trying to find out why on an individual basis. Warwick sells the wolfman fantasy very well. His kit, lore, design all compliment it and help the player really get into the moment of chasing down their hopefully hapless prey. Cho'Gath isn't handled as well as he could be due to his age, but he does sell the idea of growing into a massive monster who smashes the earth and chomps down on his enemies. Rek'Sai (who is pretty popular right now, if memory serves) has many features in her kit that really reinforce the land shark fantasy. At the time of the chart, she was unpopular due to being rather weak and unviable unless one really invested into her.

THen we have things like Skarner, whose gameplay does not reflect him as a giant scorpion much. His tail is used only for his ultimate, and his thematic leans more toward the general idea of "crystal". He's adrift in space. Aurelion Sol, though I think he is great, is also not particularly reflective of his identity as a space dragon. The creature himself could be replaced by a larger star in the center of the others and his gamplay would still fit well.

Kog'Maw is a rather generic ADC with a different shape. He's supposed to be a hungry curious little void creature but all he does is spit and make irritating noises. He's not actually cute enough to fit the identity of a "void puppy" which many players latch on to, and his kit doesn't offer room for mastery (especially since Triforce stopped being his go to post-rework and revert).


#Final Thought(s)

Overall, monsters actually have plenty of potential to be popular. Riot damned themselves with an oddly restricted and seeingly arbitrary definition of what a monster is. THey haven't failed to deliver monster gameplay fantasies on the whole, but they certainly have failed to make proper use of what they can do with the unique body shapes and feels of monster champions on a number of occasions. There were success cases even at the time that information was released. There are success cases among the monster cast that players are passionate about and love. The idea that monster champions are unpopular hurts them. Hurts their chances at a skin, and reduces the ability to make crazy kits that reflect the body shape of crazy creatures.

Feel free to share your thoughts in the comments. Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps I wasn't including champions that you think are monsters and should have gone further, perhaps you object to their list for different reasons. I'd love to have this discussion!

27 Comments

mrmeddyman3/22/2019, 3:15:52 AM8 votes

They didn't literally mean monsters, they meant non-anthropomorphic. Most League player couldn't care enough about the lore to distinguish Tahm Kench as nothing but a catfish frog man, but he's got fingers and walks on two feet, and even wears clothes so they can connect with him on an evolutionary level. Champs like Rek'Sai who are played straight as feral beasties... less so

Crow Nebula3/22/2019, 11:00:11 AM7 votes

Excellent post. I've never been convinced by the idea that League's non-humanoid champions are unpopular because they're non-humanoid. Seems to me that it's more a case of League's non-humanoid champions tending to have awkward or boring playstyles (the perfect example being Aurelion Sol - let's not forget that the League community was crying out for a proper dragon champ for a very long time, so it's not like people didn't want to play as a dragon -- they just tried Sol's kit, realised he was one-dimensional, uninteractive, and played nothing like one would expect a dragon to play, and so rejected him).

I Smell Pizza3/22/2019, 3:48:36 PM5 votes

I hated this study bc it proves nothing. They give complex and rewarding kits to human looking champs and give really boring kits to monsters. I WONDER WHO ONE TRICKS WILL WANNA PLAY. Stuidies like these are everywhere and just push a narrative. In lol it justifies making more skin sellers

GreenLore3/22/2019, 5:50:22 PM5 votes

The problem I see with their graph about monsters is that it kinda fails to think about the actual kits for the characters.

AurelionSol is a character where riot expressed that it was an error to give him such a gimmicky kit,because it turned a lot of people away from him, hence his small popularity is not caused by him being a monster, but because he has a gimmicky kit.

And to be honest I'd say a lot of these "monster"-champs have kits that likely contribute to their lack of popularity.

Frog goes moo3/22/2019, 2:39:26 PM4 votes

I'd disagree on hecarim being a "monster" champion. He still has a human upper half, the centaur theme doesn't really make him fully monster.

Anu3isII3/22/2019, 9:20:15 AM3 votes

It seems they left out a lot of examples. I am surprised they didn't mention Urgot at all, I think everyone agrees he is a monster from many perspectives.

From the looks of it, their definition of monster is a character without a humanoid body (without any resemblance to the body structure of a human). Considering this, Nocturne and Urgot are the forgotten ones. I guess they could argue that Nocturne is more of a spectre and Urgot is half-human, but it still kinda feels weird to leave out a lot of the "traditional" monsters.

And, to be fair, most of the monster champs they mentioned are unpopular because of their in-game kits and balance:

  1. Some kits are really old and feel pretty one-dimensional (Hecarim, Skarner, Rammus, Cho'Gath)

  2. Some of them went through continuous changes that overall drove people away from them (Rek'Sai, Skarner and, arguably, Hecarim)

  3. All the mage monsters are extremely vulnerable to most common picks (Assassins) when played poorly and are very difficult to master, requiring a lot of experience with the champion just to learn how to play them (Anivia, Vel'Koz, Aurelion Sol).

Shahamut3/22/2019, 1:17:33 PM3 votes

Personally, as someone who loves Skarner , I think he has a lot of good stuff going for him:

His lore is fantastic for one, and he is someone that you can easily feel sympathetic toward.

I like the simple expressions in his kit: his Q is the spammable AoE which is basically his angry thrashing about in combat, his ultimate is super iconic and unique.

W and E I think mostly fill a gameplay need, but they help with the running you down style of combat: no blinks or dashes, just raw aggression.

His passive is the eye sore of his kit. It doesn't make sense in gameplay or lore and I cannot wait for their eventual removal.

nosafterburn3/22/2019, 2:32:09 PM3 votes

you know who my favorite monster is? Jhin .

Rebonack3/22/2019, 4:56:13 AM3 votes

As a Koggers main, I would argue the reason he's unpopular has basically nothing to do with him being a monster.

It has to do with him having a kit that's totally lacking in agency in addition to being a niche pick.

See, ever since Riot changed/nerfed Kog's Ult he hasn't had a way to be proactive with his abilities. He needs to either wait for someone to try trading with him, or for an ally to pounce on a foe so he can capitalize on the initiation. He can't really proactively use his abilities* or aggressively position himself since he's totally immobile.

Most ADC players really like proactive champions. The fact that Ez and Vayne are nearly always at the top of the pick list shouldn't come as much of a shock.

*AP Kog can proactively poke with his Ult, but any time AP Kog becomes popular Riot nerfs the hell out of him.

AceAlex0313/22/2019, 2:25:00 PM2 votes

Velkoz ¨Knowledge Through....... Disintegration¨

Jerry SeinfeId3/22/2019, 1:45:55 PM2 votes

Volibear and Twitch can be argued as just being magical animals.

monsters are almost always just magical animals. But you can't just go on a quest to kill some animals can you? wolves are a common "monster" you fight early on in many videogames even.

I also feel like this take on WW is pretty bland too. He's far from just a werewolf at this point and isn't based on any hollywood monster anymore. He's a chimera and his whole theme is being stuck between man and beast. His character shows a man struggling with urges he can't control, it's interesting.

Rek sai shows this the best. Tell me what makes her an actually interesting character? she's pretty much just an animal in the lore.

aside from that alot of people asking for monsters seem to expect some grotesque beast or humanoid, which is a much more niche theme than "i'm a knife cat".

Paletongue3/22/2019, 5:48:56 PM2 votes

In my opinion, the definition of monster falls somewhere along the lines of having 2 arms, 2 legs, and a defined (or separated) head.

Nocturne is missing legs, while Hecarim has too many legs. Tahm Kench technically has his head separate from his body, while Rammus and Kogmaw do not. Kha'Zix may be a hunched over insectoid, but still has 4 limbs and a separate head.

Now that we're past that, I agree its BS that they say monsters are unpopular. It's the kits and gameplay that truly define is a champion is fun, and the looks and personality is what ties everything together. Anivia and ASol are clunky, while Reksai is super boring. Skarner has been a balancing issue on top of being Niche. Quality of life changes and buffs where appropriate could easily make most of these champions popular again.

And wasn't Hecarim extremely popular a couple of seasons ago?

Serge THE GREAT3/23/2019, 3:26:26 AM2 votes

Riot wants to have sexy anime girls in their game. They don't care about monster characters. They didn't years ago and they still don't now. I remember how excited people were for a female monster character. Then we got Elise. A big tiddied human that can also be a spider. Being a spider wasn't good enough--she had to have big ol' tiddies. If Anivia was released today she'd be a damn Harpy.

Brotha3/26/2019, 5:01:21 PM1 votes

As a Warwick main who has to bear with best doggo constantly talking about how he is a beast and a monster I really think he should have been included as a monster. He's a human who was genetically altered into a chimera and now runs the streets of Zaun serving as a kind of boogeyman for the criminal populace. If that doesn't make him a monster I really don't know what does.

SomeStars3/22/2019, 2:32:53 PM1 votes

a little upset you didnt include the biggest, baddest monster. urgod

FlameHalbrdOkido3/23/2019, 2:26:31 AM1 votes

I think more than anything the popularity of a champion has to do with the gameplay because when its all said and done, when it comes down it this is a game at its core, what you spend most of ur time doing is playing and using the mechanics of a champion.

If u don't like or understand the mechanics of the champion odds are eventually you are more likely to not play them as much

So even if the theme/design/lore is well executed, or if people like the one/all of those things, there's a higher chance of them dropping the champion after the initial wonder has worn off if they can't either achieve enjoyment, success or growth with the champion's kit

Basically alls they gotta do is rework the older monster champs and give them indepth kits that match the theme/design/lore better and really make them shine for those virtues

For example, the 1st champ i ever wanted to play was Noct, i liked his theme/design/lore, but I didn't enjoy his gameplay and it didn't fit his theme/design/lore so i dropped him. Pivot to Morde i dont PARTICULARY like his theme/design/lore all that much, at least it not my favorite out of the champs I play, and it pales in comparison to Aurelion Sol imo, BUT i DO like his gameplay, I can succeed with it, and there's room for growth and experimentation

thats why although I was initially drawn to Noct, i dropped him, and also why i stayed with Morde, its moreso about replay-ability rather than theme/design/lore

Tho I SHOULD point out that upon seeing that post i made it a POINT to start playing more unpopular champions, i hope that they DO come with some great reworks for the older monsters, and that they aren't discouraging themselves from making any monster champs...now I feel like i gotta experiment and try to design a monster champ... WAIT i HAVE HAHAHA!

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/sGKjnkFv-champ-concept-semi-global-range-mid-support-myrsky-the-climate-of-change https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/RVsWWvaV-champion-concept-itaoska-the-vacuum-of-the-void https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/yluUljGw-faoug-the-spirit-crypt https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/bwOanZdf-experiemental-cc-crypt-curse-of-the-black-edged-claymore https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/FEL4jafs-argoth-the-indomitable-infestation https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/MQdJhlb0-champion-concept-haya-the-ouroboros-tamer https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/l6WhXeEE-champion-concept-waloon-the-gale-bringer