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Is Tahm Kench even real?

turkeyBACON·7/2/2015, 8:34:19 PM·11 votes·16,553 views

Tahm has been confirm to be a demon by a rioter. BUT I wonder if they're only using that term for lack of a better word (until his full reveal anyways). Demon as an idea is problematic due to the Judeo-Chrtistian connotations, which his lore writer already said wasn't the right area to be looking at.

So what is Tahm Kench? I believe he's the personified idea of Hunger, the same way the Grim Reaper is the personification of death. The Reaper isn't Death but the idea of death that we attach a visage and name to make it easier to understand and deal with. In this same way Tahm isn't a demon of greed or rivers but the myth/fable that is given to one of man's greatest basest aspects especially in Bilgewater, a pirate cove and trade port.

Hunger is a universal feeling which is why "the world is a river" that Tahm can universally travel through. This explains why "all of the Yordles have encountered him at various times." Yordles with their desperate need and desire for community and friendship would definitely have encountered Tahm in some form in their hearts. This also explains why Tahm can seemingly travel through time since hunger is timeless and so too is Tahm.

But this brings me to my title question. Does Tahm actaully exist? Does he have a physical form in Runeterra or does he exist in story in the same way the Reaper exists in our world as story?

Sure you can say that he's a playable character on the Rift but that doesn't mean that he's real. Remember the Rift doesn't exist in Runeterra. The game and lore are separate from each other now. The Rift we play on exists as an almost warped mirror of Runeterra that exists solely that we can play an absurd/impossible game when you try to justify it with the current lore. While I originally disliked the idea of the retcon, perhaps it allows us to play a character that doesn't actually explicitly exist (flesh and blood) in the world of Runeterra.

Kalista appears to exist in the world (her reveal cinematic seems to indicate so) and she too appears to be a personification of vengeance. But are Kalista and Tahm the same? It seems too early to tell for me. We don't have enough info/lore on either to make that judgement but I'd wager they aren't. Kalista appears to have been betrayed herself and through that betrayal became what she is, but Tahm doesn't have that transformation moment revealed to us yet. He could be all talk but Tahm appears to have always been. Now that doesn't mean Tahm isn't a god of sorts, similar to Death, Dream, Desire, etc. exist as The Endless in DC comics. While this is a possibility, I hope it's not. The Endless is the basically the zenith of this idea and to try and copy it nearly directly cheapens both Tahm and them, to me anyways.

So what do you guys think? Does he exist? If he does, how does he fit in the pantheon of near godlike characters that exist in Runeterra (Soraka, Bard, Kalista, Aatrox, etc.)?

31 Comments

RiotFauxSchizzle7/3/2015, 4:28:48 AM8 votes

{quoted}

Tahm has been confirm to be a demon by a rioter. BUT I wonder if they're only using that term for lack of a better word (until his full reveal anyways). Demon as an idea is problematic due to the Judeo-Chrtistian connotations, which his lore writer already said wasn't the right area to be looking at.

So what is Tahm Kench? I believe he's the personified idea of Hunger, the same way the Grim Reaper is the personification of death. The Reaper isn't Death but the idea of death that we attach a visage and name to make it easier to understand and deal with. In this same way Tahm isn't a demon of greed or rivers but the myth/fable that is given to one of man's greatest basest aspects especially in Bilgewater, a pirate cove and trade port.

Hunger is a universal feeling which is why "the world is a river" that Tahm can universally travel through. This explains why "all of the Yordles have encountered him at various times." Yordles with their desperate need and desire for community and friendship would definitely have encountered Tahm in some form in their hearts. This also explains why Tahm can seemingly travel through time since hunger is timeless and so too is Tahm.

But this brings me to my title question. Does Tahm actaully exist? Does he have a physical form in Runeterra or does he exist in story in the same way the Reaper exists in our world as story?

Sure you can say that he's a playable character on the Rift but that doesn't mean that he's real. Remember the Rift doesn't exist in Runeterra. The game and lore are separate from each other now. The Rift we play on exists as an almost warped mirror of Runeterra that exists solely that we can play an absurd/impossible game when you try to justify it with the current lore. While I originally disliked the idea of the retcon, perhaps it allows us to play a character that doesn't actually explicitly exist (flesh and blood) in the world of Runeterra.

Kalista appears to exist in the world (her reveal cinematic seems to indicate so) and she too appears to be a personification of vengeance. But are Kalista and Tahm the same? It seems too early to tell for me. We don't have enough info/lore on either to make that judgement but I'd wager they aren't. Kalista appears to have been betrayed herself and through that betrayal became what she is, but Tahm doesn't have that transformation moment revealed to us yet. He could be all talk but Tahm appears to have always been. Now that doesn't mean Tahm isn't a god of sorts, similar to Death, Dream, Desire, etc. exist as The Endless in DC comics. While this is a possibility, I hope it's not. The Endless is the basically the zenith of this idea and to try and copy it nearly directly cheapens both Tahm and them, to me anyways.

So what do you guys think? Does he exist? If he does, how does he fit in the pantheon of near godlike characters that exist in Runeterra (Soraka, Bard, Kalista, Aatrox, etc.)?

I'm not the writer on Tahm Kench, but I mentioned this post to Waaarghobo. He said "smells like a cookie".

Sharjo7/2/2015, 9:56:45 PM5 votes

This has been hard to put in to words for some reason.

As far as I can tell he does exist, he's just more of a negative force than a tangible entity. The being we see is the physical embodiment of the demon, but this isn't his first or only form. Tahm's bargains involve him giving and then taking from his clients; the Gambler wanted a fresh start and the price was the man's despair. Tahm took everything from the man by devouring it, not really sating a physical hunger but sating his hunger for despair.

I don't think this demon is a god or godlike in any way, he's more like a primal evil. A force of nature given life and voice from simply having grown to big and powerful. I'd imagine Tahm's conscious was sort of "born" and grew over time to become as it is now. He hasn't always been around even though he's been around longer than humans, and by extension he hasn't always snacked on human despair, so he hasn't always been able to walk and talk as we see him do.

I see some severe differences between Tahm and Kalista. Kalista can be seen as an avatar of retribution but she isn't vengeance incarnate, rather she is an incredibly powerful being who is not a fan of people backstabbing others. She was once human and while her soul is kinda lost in a sea of souls, those to are human (maybe there's yordle ones in there to but I dunno) and are a part of her. Tahm is a legitimate avatar of despair, as he is a force that brings and consumes it. In the style of "you are what you eat" I consider Tahm, or atleast the demon who bears the name Tahm Kench, is physical despair. It reminds me of the Sha from world of warcraft; creatures that were born from an Old God's dying breath and manifested when negative emotions appeared in the inhabitans of Pandaria; feeding off of them.

Actually that explains it pretty well. I think Tahm's like one of Sha from World of Warcraft: embodies some negative force - manifests when said negative force appears in abundance or just in one individual strongly enough - is not 100% dead even if you kill it, as it can be drawn back out with the right stimuli.

All in all many details are kinda sketchy because we don't know anything about Runeterran demons. As far as I can tell they're beings that feed off of negative energies, or atleast that's what they've become with humans and yordles entering the picture. What they were before then I dunno. We're gonna have to wait for more demon related information to come to light.

On a slightly unrelated note, I took that "all the Yordles have met him several times before" to mean that he recently came to Bilgewater because of the Harrowings adding to the amount of negative stuff going on their basically being a buffet for him, and that before he was hanging around Yordles due to their need for social interactions and potentially more vulnerable state of mind.

Panwar7/3/2015, 6:23:37 AM3 votes

I think he exists, but I definitely think you are on the right track. He is the personification of greed, or maybe even more to the point, the personification of the ruin that short term greed eventually brings about.

I think Runeterra in general is a magical place, and while things like the Grim Reaper are just concepts here, the magic of Runeterra means these strong emotions and ideas held by millions of sentient creatures can be given real form.

Matezoide7/3/2015, 3:26:46 AM2 votes

Personally, i picture Tahm as the physical manifestation of Hunger.

As long as there is greed, there will be Tahm.

Stars Shaper7/2/2015, 8:41:33 PM2 votes

LoL is a convergence of Occidental and Oriental mythologies which means that "demons" can also be related to "evil spirits" as a concept: Nami is a good spirit, Tham an evil spirit.

Peridition7/4/2015, 7:11:04 PM1 votes

I think TK is more like the eastern concept of demons, not like the Abrahamic ones. He seems more reminiscent of a Yaoguai. Basically an evil animal spirit.

Dreamspitter11/24/2015, 9:48:04 AM1 votes

Flashback.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3bzey3/tahm_kench_originnature_possible_explanation/

This is an interesting post that supports some of the OP

Remember, this game is League of LEGENDS -and what "Lore" we have isnt encyclopedic its legend and LORE. It may not be accurate, and may have conflicting versions.

*When the Gambler hears the song that calls on him to chance his luck again -- A gambler, thinking the way out of his misery is by trying that last gamble. *"The singer was a creature, with the biggest mouth the Gambler had ever seen (...)" -- Your thoughts become very persuasive when it comes to convincing you to indulge in your addiction.

So the Gambler ends up travelling away to try his chance again (sort of gambling isn't it?) *"Now when that hungry beast finally did rise" -- When the Gambler's hunger for "dice and cards" (gambling) rouse. *"And although the Gambler tried to cast him out" -- Although the Gambler tried to supress his own vices. *"It ate the gifts, the house, and gold!" -- His gambling addiction ended up consuming everything. *"This hunger's a burden, but it's the last time I swear, so please forgive" -- Now, are these the words of a demon/spirit? Or the Gambler's own words?

Basically I'm saying that Tahm is the materialisation of a person's own "demons", and Tahm will take the mannerisms of wichever person it wants to feed on.

He is the spirit of people's own, self made shackles.

Tahm let the Gambler try his luck again by going to some other land start fresh, but you can't run from yourself. Should the Gambler redeem himself it would have been wherever he was, with whatever problems he had caused. By trying his luck again he was letting the beast in - I think whenever the Gambler indulged, he let Tahm in.

Bits from the Q&A now, Q: Tahm says that "the world is one river, and i'm its king. Ain't no place i can't go, aint no place i cant go again." Is this true? (...) And how does that work anyways? (...) Not every lake, river, ocean, pool and oasis is connected, (...) Maybe there is a massive underground ocean that only he knows of? A: There is an ocean of darkness in every man's soul.

Q: In the River King video, Tahm makes a bargain with the gambler then comes to collect years later. Why does Tahm even need to make a Faustian deal in the first place instead of crashing any party whenever he wants? Is he bound by certain rules? Is that what he meant by being "let in"? A: Yes. Traditionally there are always rules with demons and devils. The gambler is making a bargain (ultimately with himself). It is the bargain that allows Tahm to create the human misery he feeds on.

Q: Why does Tahm feel the need to trick people? He could easily walk up to a village and eat everybody, since he obviously isn't threatened by most beings. He said that when he devoured the gambler's wife, it left him satisfied. Does he have some sort of physiological disorder? Supposedly he feeds on "despair", but i'm pretty sure anybody getting eaten by a giant monster will be in despair. A: If I can answer a question with a question. Who's despair is Tahm eating in the story? How is his bargain causing the maximum amount of sorrow?

His bargain gives hope to the Gambler, who thinks that he has been given a new chance -- He has not. He gambled his way out, and "a person is its own worst enemy". By raising the Gambler's hope, then watching it being destroyed by the Gambler himself Tahm created the most misery outta that.

Tahm didn't get fed off of the wife, he got fed on the Gambler's misery and failure in escaping his own conditioning.

5D Paragon7/2/2015, 11:56:58 PM1 votes

So...What if he was a monster composed of the universal negative energy that everyone has had at least once in their life. The reason he eats people is because like the internal conflicts that reside within us, these conflicts eat away at our well-being until we learn to conquer it. Therefore, Tahm eats away at people, until someone can defeat him.

BA Tetsuo7/3/2015, 5:10:54 AM1 votes

Is Tahm Kench the gambler that this demon made a deal with? My thinking is Tahm made a deal with a demon for whatever reason people make deals with demons, and after a time, the demon came to collect on his deal by possessing tahm and consuming everything he cared for.

So cry if you want, boy, 'cause you had a chance to walk away. Instead you're the fool, the fool who let me in.

I think this is quite literal. Tahm is the fool that let this demon in, and now the demon wears the name and visage of one "Tahm Kench"

Rebonack7/4/2015, 6:08:14 AM1 votes

He's another one of Dinosaur Gnar's action figures, obviously.

Hizsoo7/4/2015, 9:28:40 AM1 votes

Just imagine a man laying in a hospital bed and being in come, but he hears everything around him. Apply those senses to the Teen Ninja Mutant Turtles before they encountered the chemicals, which turned them into mankind, than apply the whole story to catfish Tahm Kench. That is how I imagine him, but Riot never supposed to explain it fully. Sure, he is the personified form of hunger, but what fits into our tales may perfectly fit into the continent of Runaterra.