What I've been seeing a few times is that people really don't like the new lore about the Targon champions. I mean personally I thought Riot did a decent job and it might have not been the best but what I want to know is why does everyone else have a dislike for it? From what I've read, people don't like it because it heavily changed the characters and I could possibly see that but I specifically want to know how it changed them and why it makes people mad.
Ebonmaw Dragon6 votesAs far as i know, some people disliked the fact that Leona is now more "aggressive" because she killed people and things like that
... Seriously people, she has a weapon on her hand... you think that is a decoration or something? weapons are usually used to kill.
(and the "pantheon" isnt "pantheon" problem as well)
Leona is Waifu2 votesI didn't dislike the killing, I disliked the transition from a "protector" which is her VO and old lore. To an "attacker" which is more in line with her gameplay. Her visuals go either way, as she has a sword and a shield. In her old lore, she was kicked out and adopted by the Solari because she refused to participate in a duel to the death. In her new, she is actively trying to kill Diana, whilst before she was just defending herself. I do have hopes, as the articles were all well-written (even if I didn't like Leonas) and the last line of hers gave me hope.
Beyond Legends1 votesHer VO and her old lore clashed more than with her new one. She was basicly a pacifist monk in her old lore, hell she was barely seen in Diana's old lore despite that fact she was a literal avatar of the sun at that moment.
She was design as a agressor in both Vo playstyle but her lore seems to handle by an entirely different team that was clueless to her thematic.
Leona is Waifu1 votesAs someone would likes, well, everything about Leona (besides the damn boobplate and heels), I don't really feel qualified to unbiasedly judge what is good or bad about her. But, I don't really see how her old lore clashed with her playstyle to the point of cluelessness. There is some, but I see resemblances. For instance, while playing Leona, I often feel like I'm protecting my teammates by CCing the opponents.
Beyond Legends1 votesSo it doesn't bothered you that her lore potray her as an extreme pacifist despite the fact her vo talk about breaking enemy lines?
Her playstyle is more of a lock diver than a protector.
Decrit4 votesI personally think was a very good lore, and that the player complaint ultimately boiled down to not understanding what happened.
They always thought Leona as a pacifist monk that would not hurt a fly and when they noticed that she can actually use a weapon to kill invaders they overreacted. Then there was the Atreus and Pantheon whine where they liked the new character ( because that is what Atreus was, a new character ) that got killed immediately, making up then the whole "space parasite" thing and projected it into every other aspect.
So yeah, the complaints in these boards were buried deep into misunderstanding and projection. Leona is stil Leona with a developed prospective on how she deals with the violence and how her order works, Diana is still Diana with a developed prospective on her mission, Taric is finally not a joke character and Pantheon is what he was always supposed to be - a cold distant warrior.
Beyond Legends3 votesI'll be honest I still trying to find valid reason other than muh feel regarding the targon update. I've been resorting to telling them to fuck of at this point since they can't be reasoned with at this point.
I mean there was barely a change, they remove the bad messiyah like trait from Leona and Pantheon lost his friendship with leona? To be fair pantheon was flat as pancake in term.of character before.
Star Guardían3 votesI think people in general were content with the Targon lore changes. It's just a vocal minority that were kind of upset. It was really only 2 or 3 people repeatedly starting discussions on the boards about how much they hated it.
LordHippoman2 votesA lot of people think the whole "Aspects" thing takes agency away from the champions and puts it on the space Targonians, so "Pantheon" isn't really "Pantheon", he's the alien thing that inhabits that body.
There's also some disagreement about if the whole "Space Empire" thing was too far for League to go, like, scale-wise.
Personally I liked it, as I think that if handled right, the aspects can coexist with the champs in a good way, and "X is a random thing from space" is not new for League. It was the original lore for: 
, and probably a few I'm missing. I understand the complaints, I just think that the pros outweigh the cons.
GreenLore2 votesIn general the opinions on the targon update were rather split. Its just that those who dislike a change are more likely to get vocal about their opinion than the other way around.
In general the most divisive points seem to be: 1.The targonian space-aspects,mainly because they are largely shrouded in mystery,while affecting the targon lore to such a large extent and might be the mightiest faction of them all(after all they have Aurelion sol at their command) 2.Pantheon being retconned from a regular badass-soldier into an aspect,especially since said aspect gets pretty much no characterization in his lore and comes off as a jerk. 3.Leona being more agressive in her lore(especially the part where she was ready to execute Diana) 4.Diana being less agressive and ready to find a peaceful solution with the solari,which contradicts her ingame-quotes
Decrit1 votesAlways thought Diana to not be less aggresisve after the lore. She states that Lunari and Solari should work together, but she still held no simpathy for the zealots what want to force a faction over the other ( in this case only solari basically ).
TL;DR "Work with me or i slash you down"
GreenLore1 votesIt does say that she was "appalled by her actions",meaning that Diana herself wasn't happy about what she had done.
Besides her lore directly says that Diana knows that the lunari and solari don't need to be foes,yet ingame her dialogue is clearly antagonistic towards the sun(having quotes like "bring down the sun" and so on)
Decrit1 voteshhhhm.
shit. guess riot has to fix something here xD
Beyond Legends1 votesAlot of the updated champion needs a VO update.It's goinh to take some time before they get to that though.
TBakes2 votesI think more people took issue with the development of the characters from pre-Aspect to post-Aspect. For example, Pantheon was known by a different name and he was abused and whatnot, but then he gets inhabited by a mysterious celestial force of war that completely defeated the purpose of his pre-Aspect character development. That's all.
I, personally, like it. I think that there is some strange connection between Aspects and Ascendants and the way magic works and the cosmos. I believe Riot has some mechanics in mind for the Runeterran universe that underlie several different pieces of these stories. It just makes more sense that way.
Warlord Dienekes2 votesWell, I dislike it a lot so I'll bring up why and then get yelled down for being a whiner or whatever.
In any case, let's make something clear. The old lore was never very good. Unfortunately, the new lore also isn't very good. There's more of it, but the quality of that lore is really lackluster, in my eyes, and the changes made are often very strange and not exactly necessary except as a means of forcing the elements into the lore of the stuff I really don't like. Taking the few parts of the old lore that actually were good or at least interesting and either pointlessly altering them or replacing them with strange things that don't interest me at all.
The big one is of course, the Aspects themselves and how they warp everything around them. From the old lore, Leona was still Leona, Diana was still Diana, they simply got a power boost from their gods. But every mistake they made was still them. Compare that to what has happened in the new lore, and Leona was acting as Leona right up until she gets possessed and then suddenly her entire personality changes to match with what she was before the lore change. Which is unnecessary and kind of weird.
Really, Leona's entire story is muddled. At first, she acts like the Leona the original fans of the character liked. She stepped up against the codes of the rather barbaric Rakkor, and got herself almost killed for her conscience. Good, that's exactly what her fans wanted to see. Then, she goes to live with the Solari, and suddenly her personality changes. Now, I am sure that the argument for anyone disliking her personality change will say "Oh she was always aggressive, she has a sword" or "Now she has more depth" but I really don't think that's the case. For the first part, there's a difference between being aggressive and what Leona actually was in her new lore.
In her new lore she is literally fantasizing about killing Diana the first time they meet because Diana was saying things she didn't like. Not doing anything wrong, this is before she kills the Elders. She's just talking and Leona is reveling in her role as an executioner. Which, none of her old fans really saw her as. But then we know how that plays out, Leona runs up the mountain, meets the alien thing, gets possessed and suddenly she's fine with Diana again.
Why that's strange, because that is literally Leona's personality pre-retcon, and at the beginning of her own lore. Her sudden shift of personality doesn't add anything, in fact since it wasn't explained why she changed or how it really just comes out of nowhere as sloppy writing. Where the characters personality is warped to get the effect that the writers want without paying attention to what a character was before that point.
Even stranger was how Riot itself seemed to kind of ignore the retcon. At the end of both their stories, Leona is fine with Diana and wants to share their knowledge and Diana is trying to find peace with the Solari (which is not at all what her in game dialogue is like, but whatever, I assume that will be changed when they get around to updating dialogue for non-reworked champions sometime in the next 3-4 years or so). But then a month or so later, Riot made a big poll event about who would win in their grand rivalry, Diana vs Leona. But, the rivalry was just written out of their lores, Riot members even said in the thread that yeah this rivalry is no longer canon, and yet their rivalry was still such a huge part of what the community sees in them that they're still setting up events around it.
Which goes again to promises, set up, and execution. For the few folk who liked and even cared for the old Leona and Diana stories, the writers and designers were dropping hints like crazy that there was more to the Leona and Diana relationship than we knew. That their meeting would be a heartbreaking thing. And, it was set up in a way that I personally (and this is only personally) found interesting. Because in the old lore, Leona was definitely the "good" person. But she was also unequivocally on the wrong side, which I love when that sort of thing happens. The Solari were the ones who were attempting to stamp out the old Lunari knowledge, she didn't know that, and it created this tension of seeing these two paragons having a theological battle that would be made across the mountain.
The other thing I have against it, is really the entire star empire possessing alien things. Which, reading it I thought was one of the strangest most unnecessary additions to something I have ever read. But this has to do with what I find interesting. I like history. I like normal people dealing with the political and social fallout of their actions. And, I'll admit, I had built up what the Targon lore would develop to in my head, but it seemed so obvious to me. The Solari were leaderless, and they were the religious and vaguely political bodies that ran the entire mountain. The Lunari were on the rise looking for allies to change the political balance of the mountain. And the Rakkor were still there, the wild card warriors, would they choose the Sun or the Moon? And who else would be dragged into this political struggle. That stuff fascinates me.
Then what we got is that very interesting story shoved aside to focus on aliens, with a star empire we never heard of before. The champion that I really liked for being a normal soldier who could fight these monsters and gods, became a really awesome soldier guy. Then got possessed by another alien, and somehow that alien was just as bland and characterless as the character was before the retcon. I mean come on, Riot, I will not say that old Pantheon was a great character. He wasn't, there was stuff there to develop from. But the new Pantheon? He's just as bland, only instead of a Spartan he's a Goa'uld. He still doesn't have a character. In fact he barely registers in his lore, he shows up the last couple paragraphs to kill a few raiders and we get a vague warning about future terrors.
And that's not even getting into the somewhat sloppy little details that Leona's and Pantheon's lores don't even line up properly in a timeline.
Now, I will say. Taric's lore? Actually pretty good. But as a whole the story that those who enjoyed the old lore were waiting to see got rather violently pushed aside in place of dealing with a space empire and star dragon.
If you like the new lore, more power to you. I hate it. It took an event I was looking forward to, a political and social drama of soldiers and ideals. And turned it into a people getting possessed by aliens. The drama I wanted to see barely registers when compared to a world ending dragon and void threat. But, again, I don't care about Sol, or the aliens. The new lore didn't get me to like or become interested in the new story they've delivered. Instead I'm just vaguely rooting for Sol to burn the space Targs all up and leave Runeterra alone.
But even then, what really confuses me. If Riot really wanted a space empire, with a light/dark dichotomy, where the light side probably isn't as good as you'd think, forcing their conflict to come to Runeterra. Well, that's literally what Morgana's and Kyle's lore were set up as. Why didn't they just use them?
Though I will say, the vitriol about the lore change has definitely gone down. When it first happened, there were a lot of people who complained about it. Now, most of them seem to have stopped posting, and a few have stopped playing the game entirely. But, that's to be expected I suppose. It has after all, been months.
Forhonor3212 votesWow. Ok this is a lot for me to take in but after reading it I do have to agree with you on a lot of points. Looking back, Leona's new lore is a little muddied with her suddenly having a executioner personality then being possessed to be like "I'm OK with Diana now." And I will admit when I first read Diana's new lore I was a bit confused. Originally they had written her in a really good way, having her discover her origins and after nearly being killed by the people who took her in decided to take vengeance upon them, with Leona trying to call her to peace. Now it's still like that but now apparently the Lunari were some sort of protectors which the Solari wiped out for some reason and now she is off to protect the world from this threat while trying to convince the Solari to help in the future. While the in game dialogue of her's still is more tuned to her old lore.
On top of that I do remember that poll of Riot's with the Who Would Win. But now see that they say thats the new lore doesn't have them as rivals, but the old lore did and this was clearly based off of the old lore just made that confusing. And overall I really liked the old rivalry between Diana and Leona. It was what made their lore interesting to me, but now it's just gone.
Honestly I don't know about Pantheons new lore but from what I can tell it's less of him being Pantheon and more of him being some awesome warrior, who then gets possessed and then becomes Pantheon, essentially becoming a ghost inhibiting a corpse to walk around in.
Speaking of possessions, why did Riot think it was a good idea to add this whole new space empire into the mix? Why couldn't they have kept it as just like gods of the Sun and Moon and whatnot? It really doesn't make sense for this to happen. The only other time I think that space has to do in any other character lore is like you said, Kayle's and Morgana's. And even then I feel like Riot could possibly do better than that.
Taric's lore is OK and I could buy into the whole alien thing telling him and whatnot, but again it'd probably be better if it were more of an actual god instead. And Sol's lore, again, I haven't really read that much but he's basically enslaved to these aliens and now wants to break free. But why make it stupid space alien things when it just could be FUCKING GODS?!?!?!
Overall, looking back, I'm not too pleased at how they handled this lore. It just seems like a sloppy mess now. I just can't believe that the same company that gave us the Burning Tides story could give us this. And as of now I'm kinda worried about how they'll be handling other lore now. I mean, yes they released new lore about Elise, Eve, and Yorick and they were fine (Eve's was kinda meh but it's probably because she's getting updated so then they'll change it again) but as for the rest I'm just going to be a little concerned now.
GreenLore1 votesAs for the question about why they decided to add the whole space-thing:
They did talk about this around the time of the targon lore update and it was basically to give targon a more cohesive theme.
Before Targon seemed a bit all over the place,I mean you have the war-loving spartans Rakkor who had to kill off their own children in order to survive and the mostly peaceful solari(well peaceful as long as you didn't uncover stuff about the moon) who for some reason didn't have to bother with that stuff and were k with the rakkor.
They wanted to give some connecting theme to the place and chose space because Targon was already linked to 2 celestial bodies(the sun and moon) and then simply decided to take that theme to its logical extent.
Warlord Dienekes1 votesYep. They had a reason, even a reason I kind of agree with. Targon needed to be smoothed over the Rite of Kor was idiotic.
It's only the result I'm unhappy with. Especially since from a socio-political standpoint Rakkor still doesn't actually make sense. Instead of actually making the setting focus on the mountain and flesh out how it would actually work. We went to space. The Rakkor still don't make sense. It's still in a weird limbo of the tribes being under developed with barely the necessary supplies yet being able to have some form of organized boot camp and several competing societies. And apparently a "towering citadel" and apparently even more hidden palaces for Diana to find.
It's still just as slapdash as it was before only now that's all just ignored for a completely new element: the space empire.
GreenLore1 votesOverall I feel the Space theme works pretty good for Targon,I mean we had Leona for the sun,Diana for the moon and Pantheons ult feels a lot like a shooting star or meteor,so he managed to fit that theme as well even if it wasn't on purpose.
Also I'd say the Rakkor do make a bit more sense now as they are now described as a tribe who trains to protect the sun from incoming threats,which does at least explain why they are on positive terms with the solari and the missing supplies don't seem to be such a problem as well(the rite of kor is for example not mentioned in the new lore),though now they have the problem of living on a void-infested mountain,which still explains why they are so few in numbers and all trained.
Though I agree that the space-targonian-thing was handled pretty badly. They are basically a new faction that came out of the blue and that we had barely any info about,yet they are basically the driving force in the targon lore.
Warlord Dienekes1 votesRakkor is better mostly because I don't think it can be understated how criminally stupid the rite of Kor was. I mean damn. Look a society that is barely making a living to feed itself may kill off children. Though more commonly they'd die from diseases caused by lack of nutrition. But what they wouldn't do is raise them to teen age then force them to kill each other. Because once they become a teen they become a part of the work force to hunt or gather crops. So the old Rakkor essentially were raising people when they're a drain on society and then killing them right as they would have been able to economically contribute. Whoever wrote that does not understand basic societal growth patterns.
Unfortunately, the new lore isn't much better. The Rakkor are still described as roughly barely surviving on a cold desolate mountain. Wanna know what cultures who lived in those conditions wouldn't have? An army. At the absolute best maybe the hunting class can defend against whatever small group of potential raiders show up. But no we learn from Panth and Leona that this mountain somehow has 2 fully trained and equipped armies. In articulated plate armor no less.
And they developed towering citadels. How? There is no logical process for this.
But more than that we also learn that Targon has a port. And is a Mecca like location. Ok. That means there has to be trade and highly developed city structures. Rakkor are at the foot of the mountain. They should be a bristling economic powerhouse where the wealth of several nations at least Demacia should mix and allow for rapid progression. And I mean like 10-20 years minimum this would alter the entire landscape of the region.
But no. They're tribes. They're barely surviving. They have it rough. Sure they somehow have late medieval technology. Just agree with it.
And that's why new Targon still does not make sense as a setting. Though yes. Even I have to agree they are way better off now that the rite of Kor has been sent to hell where it belongs.
Stars Shaper1 votesThe big one is of course, the Aspects themselves and how they warp everything around them. From the old lore, Leona was still Leona, Diana was still Diana, they simply got a power boost from their gods. But every mistake they made was still them.
Isn't still this the case? In my reading what I got is that they didn't merge personalities with the Targonians but rather shared memories and informations and each aspect had a different kind of sharing:
Atreus got entirely subjugated by Pantheon which also seems to be the most aggressive of the aspects.
Leona got the best out of it as she understood the most of the situation and about what happened between the Lunari and the Solari, she also went above the all "heretics" thing and now is looking for Diana.
Diana understood what the situation is about the void invasion and about what the Lunari had suffered, being an outcast herself and seeing how the SOlari didn't change a bit she is now roaming to fulfill her duty for the greater good.
Warlord Dienekes1 votes[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=h6f4OspH,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2016-09-24T21:50:01.592+0000)
Isn't still this the case? In my reading what I got is that they didn't merge personalities with the Targonians but rather shared memories and informations and each aspect had a different kind of sharing:
Atreus got entirely subjugated by Pantheon which also seems to be the most aggressive of the aspects.
Leona got the best out of it as she understood the most of the situation and about what happened between the Lunari and the Solari, she also went above the all "heretics" thing and now is looking for Diana.
Diana understood what the situation is about the void invasion and about what the Lunari had suffered, being an outcast herself and seeing how the SOlari didn't change a bit she is now roaming to fulfill her duty for the greater good.
Nope. From the time of Taric's release the writers have stated they had a scale of aspect vs person for the champions. Which determines how much of their core personality is the alien and how much is the human. Taric is definitively just Taric with the Aspect acting as a cheerleader. Pantheon is just Pantheon with Atreus locked away dead with his spirit with his ancestors. The other two are in that line between those points
Which makes sense since reading their lores Diana is being influenced by the voices in her head pushing her toward certain goals. While it is also the best answer to why Leona went a conplete 180 from being a bloodthirsty executioner who just watched her religious leaders get killed on her watch to suddenly wanting to chat with Diana.
The ultimate extent that the Aspects have of control of either of them is still unknown. It's just more than being free of influence like Taric and less than being totally dominated like Atreus.
Tattersall2 votesPersonally, I love the Targon lore, but I also wasn't around for the old lore. I was going to post an old comment by Warlord Dienekes, where he told me why he doesn't like the new lore, but then I saw that he already commented his opinion. So never mind.