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Viktor's status as a villain

Lanceworks·4/14/2017, 4:27:20 PM·9 votes·2,237 views

Sometimes I feel like the community wants the spectrum of champion morality to go from WHITE -> WHITISH GREY ---------------------------------------------------------------------> BLACK with nothing in between. Why can't we have human villains anymore? Why does everyone want their champion to be "misunderstood" For example: is not villain anymore. He's not even an anti-hero. As much as his fanbase likes to think he is one so that he isn't considering a Mary Sue.

Everything bad about him is 100% based on flawed assumptions from the other side ( ). All the villainous actions that Viktor did in Jayce's short story were completely countered by his own story. While I like the idea of having different perspectives of the same story combine to create a full truthful picture, the Viktor/Jayce conflict is does not accomplish. You could totally just read Viktor's lore and get the complete whole truth without even taking a peek at Jayce's side.

The conflict was one-sided before Viktor's bio got released and it flipped to be one-sided again after Viktor's bio got released. It just so happened the community liked the second champion more than the first one. People like to say that they want a more morally grey universe when in reality they just want the lore to be black/white in the favor of their champion.

Sorry if this seems like an attack on anyone but I've been keeping this in for a while now and I feel like I need to vent it a bit. In my own small worthless opinion, I'd like to see Riot be less scared of making champions do less than good things. There are people in the real world who do incredibly shitty things that are almost unimaginable, so why can't some champions do that without being demons/magical aberrations?

I want to note that I really like the new lore in general, this is just a tiny something that bugs me

36 Comments

Jerry SeinfeId4/14/2017, 6:00:54 PM3 votes

He's grey because of his methods. The reason Zaun is such a grey area is because morality depends on the person/character.

His methods would morally not be accepted, but he does it with good intentions.

even characters like mundo, jinx, Singed are grey.

While mundo is a crazy murderer. in his eyes he's "healing" people. Singed wants to further his alchemy, he doesn't care what the effects are on his surroundings but i don't think he's evil. Harming people is never his actual goal. Same goes for jinx but with explosions and stuff.

It's also why these characters are more liked than characters like jayce. Jayce is a cocky guy who WANTS to be a hero (imo). but at the same time he's also shown to be humane and not a complete asshole.

there's also a difference between being evil and being the bad guy imo.

WitchQueen Annie4/14/2017, 5:43:12 PM3 votes

As a Viktor main, I like the new lore because the new lore says:

"Viktor Good. Viktor Badass. Viktor Improve Mankind. Viktor Misunderstood. Viktor Help People."

while it says

"Jayce Bad."

I like it.

A Superb Villain4/14/2017, 6:00:35 PM3 votes

Who says he is a good guy?

The most important transformation brought from the recent additions to his lore is a shift in attention from immoral to amoral.

There is no longer a question of whether or not Viktor wants to convert the human population into mindless machines. Surprise, he doesn't. What he wants to accomplish is introduce a greater level of efficiency in how humans function, it just so happens that some of these improvements require the sacrifice of particular human elements. Viktor views his inventions from an objective standpoint. A spine graft can increase core strength and durability, which is a net gain, but he ignores the fact that the recipient now has sheets of metal jutting from their back.

"Function over form."

Viktor isn't in a place where we are led to believe he is twirling a mustache while he plots the conquest of Piltover. However, Viktor's characterization still enables him to do morally questionable things, such as offering the boy in his story the chance to override certain bodily functions. He doesn't, and that is because the boy declined. Viktor isn't a villain, he is someone who operates parallel to common modes of thought and this mindset naturally clashes with the rationale of many individuals, if not most. He does not see what is wrong with completely altering the nature of humanity because it offers a tangible benefit. This disconnect is what makes him scary now, not the possibility of raising a robot army for nefarious purposes.

He can change the world, but the world might not be ready for how far he is willing to take that change.

HalcyonDweller4/14/2017, 4:34:21 PM2 votes

I mean, this is how the world works too, most people doing evil things don't do so maliciously. It is almost always out of either selfishness or a belief that they are doing 'the right thing'

Maybe Viktor HAS done awful things that we don't know about yet because of his logical methods to everything.

Requiemsfire4/14/2017, 4:40:43 PM2 votes

Because grey characters tend to be more interesting in that their motivation is more complex and that the implications of those actions would actually have a greater toll on the overall narrative and the persona of the character.

The Anagram King4/14/2017, 4:49:47 PM2 votes

Viktor was much cooler, in my opinion, when he was teetering on the 'is he a villain?' line. The beauty of his old lore was that he began as a normal man. A possibly slightly phlanthropically-inclined man, but even then - only slightly (working in waste management and such could be considered nothing more than a career path).

He was just a human. And a little naive. So when Stanwick stole credit for his work; when his plea for justice fell on deaf ears; he became depressed. Horribly depressed. He had created LIFE - Sentience. He (and his team) had created a robot that was, for all intents and purposes, a man. And he WON the right to be considered such, by law.

But Viktor received no credit. He received no justice. And, betrayed, he secluded himself in his lab to try and prove that he could do it again, on his own. He becomes obsessed. He cannot simply EMULATE blitzcrank to gain the respect and recognition of those who spurned him - no - He has to do something better. And so he does:

He begins to transform HIMSELF into a machine.

--But that's not where it ends--

As Viktor begins removing his limbs and suppressing his emotions (whether through self-restraint or actual tampering, we're not sure), he experiences a moment of clarity. He has an epiphany:

What he is working on can change the VERY fabric of human society.

Slowly, his desire for vengeance fades. Or at least takes a back-seat. No longer is this about Stanwick, his peers, or the justice system that failed him. Suddenly, everything - every ounce of his body and spirit - is drive to pursue what he calls a "Glorious Evolution"; the transcendence of flesh. People fear him; people flock to him; and his personality is RADICALLY different than when he first went into isolation.

He is scary; but his vision, tempting. Even so, his inventions and ideas baffle scientist and philosopher, alike - and we have no reason to trust him, other than taking him at his word.

VIktor COULD have been a villain. He COULD have been a hero. He could have been both at the very same time. But now Jayce seems like a jerk who jumps to conclusions; and Viktor like the same guy he was, before his (in the new lore) "COUPLE OF WEEKS" of depression.

I hate it, so. And I would've preferred a story of events, rather than a 'I'm a good guy and he's a bad guy! (IT'S JUST PERSPECTIVES U GUYS!!)" cop-out. :P

(I wanted to rant, too)

ModAcademy Kayn4/15/2017, 6:13:26 PM2 votes

I mean, yeah, you see Viktor's perspective with only reading his own story and you get the whole of it, but you don't understand why Jayce does what he did until you read his. Same way as Jayce's.

That said, I am slightly annoyed by a Syndra discussion I'm having with someone who thinks that it's fully okay to murder someone because you had a few rules put on you.

Hovering Hentai4/14/2017, 5:15:33 PM1 votes

I want void lore...

Because you just KNOW that stuff is gonna be evil

WitchQueen Annie4/14/2017, 8:15:33 PM1 votes

Its just always seemed a bit strange to me that the lore it only mentions that he invents all of these safety, civilian efficiency/live-saver thingies that help with mining, waste management/disposal, health issues.

And then in game he is this walking weapon of mass destruction with lasers and a force field of death like a Dr. Doom. I understand the implication is that he can use his genius to create powerful futuristic weapons too but why is this not mentioned in lore?

Hey he's fun to play but he's WAY MORE POWERFUL in game then the lore would suggest.

6Sfool4/14/2017, 8:37:11 PM1 votes

I'm all for villains, but in the sense of "Doing what I believe is right no matter the consequences" rather than the cliche and infantile "DIE HUMANS I AM BAD GUY"

Nobody wants their main to be the second, but I think more should be like the first. The first is also not necessarily misunderstood. It can make an anti-hero like Viktor, but it also has champs that may actually be evil, like Zed or Syndra (waiting for new lore though).

Meep Man4/15/2017, 8:50:56 PM1 votes

We do have pure villainous characters though, and some are humans: Elise Leblanc Lissandra Malzahar Mordekaiser Thresh Vladimir

I think we can all agree that these guys are definitely pretty far on the sour side of the scale of good and evil. I could add more, but I've gotten a lot of crap before for caling some people evil. (cough Swain cough) The reason Viktor's community wants him to be morally grey is because that's how he was originally. He wanted to improve humanity, but everyone painted him as a villain who wanted to remove the human part of humanity. His "greyness" painted itself. He never wanted to harm anyone except those who stole his work. Beyond that, however, he didn't want harm to anyone.

DoktorKaiser4/15/2017, 6:52:41 PM1 votes

If you want cartoon villains, go watch the fucking cartoons. Gray characters are much more fun and realistic, there is no black and white in real world...

Eternal7914/15/2017, 7:47:13 PM1 votes

I understand where you're coming from but there are plenty of champions that are evil. Thresh and Mordekaiser were evil before they became undead. Urgot is pretty twisted, along with Singed, Jhin, Jinx, Zed and plenty of others in their own way.

ModKnightsKemplar4/14/2017, 5:58:43 PM1 votes

I completely disagree that champs like this don't exist. For starters, I think Viktor's lore is a good example of this. In the real world, both sides think they are the good guy, and poor communication can fuel conflict. That's how it is in Viktor's lore.

In Warwick's new representation, he's also a very morally grey character. He's sort of trying to be a "good guy" but he's lost in his own animalistic ways, and he knows it.

I think Xayah and Rakan's lore does this, too. Xayah shows a distrust of the Kinkou in the new stories, despite the fact that we, the readers, know that the Kinkou would help them fight Zed and his minions. It's a good characters who has conflict with other good characters.

I have a problem, inherently, with attack posts on Riot's strategy that don't suggest any alternatives. So here's my question: what would you do with those examples above to make them more morally grey? What's your desire here?

I'm fine with disagreement, but only if you're willing to give constructive criticism. Criticism without good ideas for improvement is just negative drivel, and it doesn't help anyone. So let's get constructive.