I think there's a problem with Nidalee and Elise

Linna Excel·9/21/2018, 6:04:49 PM·33 votes·14,305 views

is a female jungler with no laning abilities. She is an early game AP assassin who ganks early and falls off late and is a known pro pick. As a shape shifter, her kit revolves around hitting a key skill in her human form so she can finish off her opponent as an animal.

Has anyone else noticed how similar those two champs are? Same role. Same lane. Same Shtick as a female AP assassin that transforms. They look and play a little different but all in all, these two are basically the same champion. Riot, can we get a little more definition and differentiation between these two champs.

29 Comments

YDy2ZkRq029/21/2018, 7:25:56 PM19 votes

I think that you should repost this thread in the gameplay boards. You mentioned almost 0 similiriates related to Story, Art and Sound, the entire post is about gameplay.

DuskDaUmbreon9/21/2018, 6:08:37 PM19 votes

Human form is more mage-like, transformed is an assassin, too.

They really do need some more differentiation. Sure, there's a bit of difference in their mage form (Elise has CC, Nidalee has heals and long-range poke), but they are honestly a bit too similar.

Pale Mask9/21/2018, 6:15:07 PM14 votes

There's no problem with them. They're supposed to be thematically similar.

Nidalee is supposed to be faster, harder to catch and hunt you down from afar. She does it by laying down her traps and throwing spears at you, while keeping herself safe with her heal.

Elise is patient and manipulative. Her damage comes from herself and her pets. Her human form wears you down and prepares you for a kill in spider form by waiting for you to make a mistake and get cocooned, while Rappel is on a much longer cooldown but more adaptable than Nidalee's jump. They're polar opposites in the lore, basically.

It's not much of a topic when you just want to go changing perfectly good champions because you think they're too similar. Fuck their playerbase, right?

Ebonmaw Dragon9/21/2018, 6:33:42 PM13 votes

I dont know if you noticed this but... Nidalee is a cougar and Elise is a Spider

Mindblown

Cetri9/21/2018, 7:32:19 PM7 votes

Yeah, they do have a problem, conservation of mass is really a...

Oh. Gameplay stuff. Nvm.

Summonah123699/21/2018, 10:23:46 PM5 votes

From experience, they're pretty fucking different. Elise relies more on spamming her kit, mostly landing CC tho, and I believe her spider Q can be used like Nidalees takedown.

Idk I'm much more experienced on Nidalee than Elise, still sorta trying to learn Elise. Don't really understand her full human kit. But Nidalee's kit? Oh boy do I understand it... Her W can be used to trigger passvies from enemies in bushes or just a free ward. Elise's CC may be like Nid's Q, but obviously CC isn't designed to do damage like her spears. She has to keep them CC'Ed then proably use her human W and Q in order to make them lower on health just incase they're not dying. If they are however, you can literally just get ready to kill them with her spider Q.

With Nid however, after landing her spear you have to KNOW if you should go in or not. It is a core part of learning her. If you go in when it's NOT safe, you are dead. Also, when it is safe to go in and you know it, she has to get into pounce range by restlessy running towards them, and press W. Unlike Elise, she doesn't really need her rappel for this part unless herprey is out of range. Then she just uses Q.

Plus the most obvious thing that makes them different is their lore and their species. Other than that, contrary to what I said before, they are a little alike, but they still have some differneces in kit and combo, such as Elise not having a heal or ranged jump (Rappel is just a point and click from above), which Nidalee does have. SO yeah, I think because of no heals Elise is more likely to die. I can't say much, just trying to come up with shit.

Thefrostyviking9/21/2018, 8:43:13 PM4 votes

I mean, i´d argue that on hit varus overlaps severely with kog.

Kayle and Xayah overlap a fair bit as well, around average ranges, DPS, survival ults.

And crit varus overlaps a ton with cait and jinx.

.....A number of marksmen are just kinda similar to eachother in several ways, as are the tanks.

Lux and ziggs have a some points of similarity in terms of how they play, poking around, ensuring enemy wont dodge then ulti for a finisher.

Xerath and vel feel pretty similar too, just like someone switched the basic abilities around a bit and modified them then changed the effects of the ults but kept the rooting mechanic.

Jayce and gnar have some points that are rather same too, poke in ranged form then go all in in melee when confident, back off with some CC/mobility if it fails.'

Yi&Tryndamere.......run in, basic attack stuff and use the dash whenever you feel like, one pops ulti first and the other midway and both keeps hitting until they either win or lose.

Ekko , Ahri and sivir all basically have the same Q with some differences in number, appearances and a minor special mechanic here or there like the return true damage on Ahri´s Q then we also have cassio and karthus kinda suffer from the same deal ......syndra too i guess.

In effect Shyv and wukong have the same passives pretty much.

Nunu W and Sion ulti? One isnt unstoppable and the other is.

Riven and Aatrox are also very similar, difference is just that riven have this animation cancelling deal that was originally a bunch of bugs which later got officially adopted.......but overall aatrox Q is like riven Q+W combined with some restrictions.

E´s are basically the same but Aatrox gets a item 3812 sustain passive instead of a activated barrier and 2 charges of the dash.

Both of their ults are just fat stat buffs altho riven can activate hers again for a execute while Aatrox revives if killed.

I´d make a case for morg and lux too, light/dark binding, the shields, instant/delayed damage AOE circle.....only big difference is the ults.

What am i going for here?

OP you might as well drop the idea of true uniqueness,,,,,,its probably already not possible with the 141 champions we have. .

saltran9/21/2018, 7:12:11 PM3 votes

I miss playing midlane Nidalee, but I know that it was cancer.

xxx6Wizard9xxx9/22/2018, 1:58:14 PM3 votes

and both nerfed to ground because of stupid LCS.

Jeddy0179/21/2018, 7:09:56 PM3 votes

Isn't this more of a gameplay topic rather than a SAS topic?

Stephenizgod9/21/2018, 7:38:00 PM3 votes

is a female jungler with no laning abilities

ugh flashbacks from when Nidalee was uncontested queen of Top lane...

DarkSoul19949/21/2018, 11:14:00 PM2 votes

Their similarities begin and end with them both being Female champions who can change forms. Their actual play patterns are very different. For the most part, Nidalee wants to control you, keep vision of you, whittle you down, and then finish you off. Elise, on the other hand, wants to cleanly land all of her abilities and either 1-shot you, or rappel up while her teammates finish you off.

Crispy0Snake9/23/2018, 12:03:35 AM2 votes

Leona Nautilus by the way

La Bello9/22/2018, 5:34:41 AM2 votes

this is what happens when you pump a new champ into the game every 2 months.

Pyke and Blitzcrank are also fundamentally achieving the same goals

Q-Hook displacement W- Massive Move speed modifier E- Crowd Control R- AOE Damage

the difference is in playstyles however as Blitz is more of a sturdy bruiser whereas Pyke is a slippery assassin. They both occupy the same roles too as salt on the wound. This creates a situation where you are simply gonna pick whoever you are most comfortable with or whoever is currently the most overstatted.

Kaisa and Vayne Short range duelist with strong anti-tank options and stealth.

of course once again the newer is better and Kai'Sa for the most part generally outclasses vayne. thats not to say that Vayne cant beat Kai'Sa in a 1v1 however its simply that Kai'Sa has many more tools,strengths and options at her disposal (Hybrid builds and itemization options, ACTUAL aoe Waveclear)

Kayn and RekSai also have the same kinda niche.

A strong jungler who uses nuanced gank paths as a kit focal point. Of course Rek'Sai is a boring knock up bot whereas Kayn either gets to pick between one shotting squishies as Shadow Assassin or being the unstoppable drain tank fighter Rhaast (with a knockup!). There is no reason to pick Rek'Sai cept for her Tremor sense I guess. really niche counter to Twitch/Shaco I guess?

Kennen and Lissandra

"I want a ranged bully top with strong teamfight engage and magic burst!" except of course 90% of the time you are going to pick Kennen because his R damage is like potentially 3x what Lissandra's is and it actually stuns MORE than one person.

I also hate it when Riot cannibalizes past kits or rehashes them

Yasuo Why does he have Braums Unbreakable as a random skill? Braum is effectively balanced around his E his entire kit is based off him jumping between an ally and an enemy then firing off his abilities and fighting them back. Yasuo could lose his Windwall and his kit would still be 100% functional because its mostly about the Q+E interactions with the R for pop-off. Windwall never shouldve been a thing since Unbreakable was a thing.

Sejuani Why does she have Braums Passive? thats just so lazy. should have given her an actual new mechanic or ability instead of just tacking on a Slash n Stab and stealing Braum Passive.

Zyra her new passive is basically just a stolen illaoi passive. Except you have no control over it so yay thats fun....

Sexy Jack Rabbit9/22/2018, 7:49:30 AM1 votes

Despite the fact Elise is listed as an Assassin, with the presence of CC in her kit and the current state of her Rappel she'll always be balanced as a Diver. You need to be mindful that if you grind down ANY two champions, their kits will seem similar.

Altough Thematically yes, they are quite same-ish.

You could quite literally change the word spider/cougar into cougar/spider and then shift a conjunction or two and all of their quotes are interchangeable.

But they WERE designed by Zeronis after all.

mrmeddyman9/24/2018, 5:08:43 AM1 votes

Circumstantial comparisons do not really constitute a problem. Expecially when one of the similarities is literally that both characters are female. Nidalee and Elise play pretty differently

DarkSoul19945/11/2019, 5:01:58 AM1 votes

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