"Why would I need a spirit's help? I am guided by Nagakabouros."

SaltyToplaneGoat·Nov 28, 2015·6 votes·5,870 views

-- Illaoi when encountering A YORDLE. (according to the wiki)

This kind of confuses me, especially when taking the other yordle quotes: -"Little one, I don't need empathy. Seek those who do." -"Go back to where men are weak, and need your inspiration."

I doubt that she just mistakes them for something else due to their non-human appearance...

Also... Considering the theory that yordles are indeed spiritual manifestations, doesn't that open up the possibility that Teemo is indeed the living satan of Runeterra?

44 Comments

SharjoNov 28, 20154 votes

So I tested those lines with a person from the Wiki who proceeded to document them, and yes they are accurate. You can test yourself if you don't believe me; make a custom game with a Trist bot, or an Amumu bot, or a Ziggs bot. I guess Amumu's easy to confuse for a yordle, I mean even Riot thought he was for a long time.

So in line with that the "Why would I need a spirit's help?" Is probably the question for a question a yordle might pose: "Do you seek the blessing of X?" X being whatever spirit Illaoi is referring too. We know little of how yordle culture works in the new Runeterra, but my assumption is that there is a god or powerful entity within the yordle's culture. What exactly that thing is is up for debate, but considering the whole Keeper of the Hammer deal, I personally think that Poppy's long lore might give us a few details.

Considering she knows darkin are a thing, and just about NO ONE knows about them, I doubt she actually thinks yordles are spirits.

RalanrNov 28, 20152 votes

Maybe something to do with the origins of the Yordle race?

SharjoNov 28, 20153 votes

Potentially. A progenitor of their species, a magical being that kicked their evolution in to gear, a remarkable individual among their kind who united them as a species, something obscenely powerful that they commune with, the possibilities are endless.

Finger's crossed for an answer or two in Poppy's long lore!

RalanrNov 28, 20151 votes

Poppy will probably give light to Demacia more than Bandal city.

I'm just hoping for a Bandal city event after a Targon event.

SharjoNov 28, 20151 votes

Oh sorry I'm more talking about the origins of her hammer and the powers surrounding it and her, plus a bit of yordle society insight from when she was growing up. I feel like the hammer might have connections to whatever spirit might watch over the horribly named Yordle Lands.

I'd assume, the way she's written now, that she hasn't actually reached Demacia yet, in the lore, but is well on her way.

And yes, Bandle City event please Riot! It'd be awesome!

RalanrNov 28, 20151 votes

Ah. Personally I think the hammer has some Targonian origins. But that's just because of the runic weapons thing, which might be written out entirely.

SharjoNov 28, 20152 votes

I'd like them to expand on the idea of Relic Weapons in Targon and explain why the sod they're so cool and important.

RalanrNov 28, 20151 votes

Agreed. The closest representation of this is Pantheon 's spear not missing and always returning. But really that's a simple gameplay mechanic that a lot of people want removed (in the form of a skill shot no less) so we have nothing to really represent the power of runic (or is it relic? I can't remember) weapons since the one person in league who is specifically described as using them (because Diana and Leona 's weapons are rakkorian. Runic/relic weapons seem more like a rakkorian tradition. I know Leona is from Rakkor, but her weapons and armor are from the Solari) is Pantheon .

Pantheon 's only questionable ability is his superior jumping skills. His weapons do not showcase much magical effects (since his shield works like an actual shield).

SharjoNov 28, 20152 votes

I feel like having relic weapons be the ancient armaments of the greatest warriors of the Targonians, or potentially being gifts from the Gods, would be a good tie in. I'm imagining Pantheon's spear being imbued with great power so that when he throws it transforms in to a thunderbolt a la Zeus, and then reforms in his hand, and his Aegis of Zeonia being an impenetrable bulwark that can block even the most powerful of attacks, more so than any shield would be capable of doing.

It might be going a bit to far in to the greek myth side of things and be detracting from spartan "indomitable warrior" archetype I feel Panth occupies, but that's just my musings.

RalanrNov 28, 20152 votes

To be fair, Pantheon needs some thematic help in my opinion.

SaltyToplaneGoatNov 28, 20152 votes

Not sure if we are talking about origins here... especially the comment with the "inspire" makes me think.

On another note, maybe there is a connection to the Fae? After all the only person to come into contact with them that we know of is Lulu... (and theoretically Shaco but that is speculation).

RalanrNov 28, 20151 votes

I have a theory that Lulu is the first of her race to interact with the fey in a long time.

Though there are things I haven't considered. Let's say that they keep her "time displacement" thing in lore. Lulu could be showcasing what Yordles used to be like before they advanced in science and engineering.

SharjoNov 28, 20153 votes

Not sure if we are talking about origins here... especially the comment with the "inspire" makes me think.

Well that depends; how does Runeterra as a whole view yordles? That's actually pretty complicated and hard to discern considering we don't know where the horribly named Yordle Lands are in new Runeterra. Assuming there's some similarities geography wise to old Runeterra then yordles come from a part of the world so remote that it's honestly acceptable that some humans have no idea what the sod a yordle is and have never met them. Before you yell at me for that one consider the following about Poppy, if we consider a massive continent like Valoran and her travelling alone and by foot:

Poppy's aim is to get to Demacia.
Poppy's journey starts in Bandle City, on the opposite side of Valoran.
She'd have to go through the Kumungu,
Then through the hundreds of miles wide Shurima desert,
Then around Mount Targon,
Then what would be the Kaladoun if that still exists,
And then through the entire Kingdom of Demacia to reach the capital, which is the most likely place she'll go.

That's a LONG distance. Let's remember that yordles evolved in the jungles of Valoran and only resembled modern day yordles in any way a few thousand years ago, back when human societies were already developed. The oldest record we as readers have of yordles living in Runeterra is Gnar's cave drawings, which are likely from several thousand years ago, when the Frozen Watchers had a massive conquering of Valoran going on thanks to their Iceborn servants. And let's also not forget their empire was not the first major human civilization of recorded Valorian history; the Madelords and Protectorate were.

With that in mind yordles likely only entered the scene of developed societies in Runeterra fairly recently, and seeing them outside of the yordle lands would've been unheard of for the longest time, or got you accused for being drunk and seeing diminutive furry people.

Now on to the inspiration line, well really that sounds like a yordle thing to do considering how upbeat, optimistic and cheery they are. Considering yordles being so unheard of until more recent times, potentially up until as early as a century ago if we really want to push it, then any stories that actually had yordles in them might depict them as just being inspiring as individuals across the board, due to them being so naturally positive. I can imagine old folk tales where people meet yordles and it was thanks to the yordle's inspiration people managed to overcome adversity.

Of course that could all be a load of bollocks, what do I know?

RiotRiot ShadowStormNov 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Now on to the inspiration line, well really that sounds like a yordle thing to do considering how upbeat, optimistic and cheery they are. Considering yordles being so unheard of until more recent times, potentially up until as early as a century ago if we really want to push it, then any stories that actually had yordles in them might depict them as just being inspiring as individuals across the board, due to them being so naturally positive. I can imagine old folk tales where people meet yordles and it was thanks to the yordle's inspiration people managed to overcome adversity.

Of course that could all be a load of bollocks, what do I know?

I have no insight one way or another on the Yordles, but I really like this theory. Another piece of evidence in support? Our friendly local river demon doesn't take too kindly to Yordles...

http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/tahmkench/#champion-lore

GixiaNov 29, 20152 votes

I never noticed that, and it certainly does seem to rouse suspicion that Tahm is rivals with ALL yordles. Also, semi-confirmation that Fizz is a yordle! For the longest time I had thought he was until being corrected, and to this day I still instinctively think of him as one.

Though this raises a semi-related question... How often do champion pages get updated regarding who their allies and enemies are? Because I noticed Tahm view Aatrox as a friend, but when I went to Aatrox's page, Tahm isn't listed there. Are the feelings not returned? Or has Aatrox's page just not been updated?

Edit: Oh snap, no, not ALL the yordles... Veigar's not there! Guess the tiny master of evil doesn't bother Tahm so much.

DreamspitterNov 29, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I never noticed that, and it certainly does seem to rouse suspicion that Tahm is rivals with ALL yordles. Also, semi-confirmation that Fizz is a yordle! For the longest time I had thought he was until being corrected, and to this day I still instinctively think of him as one.

Though this raises a semi-related question... How often do champion pages get updated regarding who their allies and enemies are? Because I noticed Tahm view Aatrox as a friend, but when I went to Aatrox's page, Tahm isn't listed there. Are the feelings not returned? Or has Aatrox's page just not been updated?

Edit: Oh snap, no, not ALL the yordles... Veigar's not there! Guess the tiny master of evil doesn't bother Tahm so much.

So.........how did Veigar escape that Noxian prison anyway?

TahmKench "Boy, the world's one river, and I'm its king. Ain't no place I ain't been. Ain't no place I can't go again... And the price is a minuscule thing."

GixiaNov 29, 20153 votes

I don't think Veigar would be very pleased to hear of anything being 'miniscule'.

SharjoNov 29, 20154 votes

Also, semi-confirmation that Fizz is a yordle!

Well more that whatever the fuck Fizz's people are called have some biological relation to yordles than Fizz outright being a yordle.

DreamspitterNov 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well more that whatever the fuck Fizz's people are called have some biological relation to yordles than Fizz outright being a yordle.

I dont think its either one, it's Fizz's attitude that's similar to Yordles.

Vincent LuciusNov 30, 20151 votes

Veigar has Tahm listed as an ally, if I recall correctly.

GixiaNov 30, 20153 votes

He does not. His only listed ally is Lulu, and his only enemy is Teemo.

That said, he's the only yordle to not be listed as Tahm's enemy, so that's gotta count for something.

Vincent LuciusNov 30, 20152 votes

Lulu is listed as a friend and Teemo is listed as a Rival. What i'm referring to is a third option that was listed around the time that Tahm came out. There were friends, rivals, and allies, and Tahm was listed as the third option for Veigar, although it seems as though they removed it since then.

I kinda miss the Ally section. It left more room for character relations, people that were helping one another without getting too chummy.

NullDragonDec 1, 20151 votes

That makes sense. How'd he get out of the prison? He made a deal with Tahm, of course.

And as payment, Veigar's good naturedness.

Vincent LuciusDec 1, 20151 votes

That I'm not so sure about. Tahm seems like the person to take his payment at the most opportune time, like in his intro video when he waited until the night of the gambler's marriage to claim everything he cared about. Maybe he's waiting for Veigar to go to the point of no return before he cashes in?

jogoblingtonDec 1, 20151 votes

Tahm helped veigar escape prison.

SharjoNov 29, 20151 votes

I personally always thought that given Tahm Kench's rivalry with yordles at large he was hunting them and their despair before he swam on over to the Serpent Isles, and mainly for one reason: their despair is particularly delicious.

Look at Veigar; driven so acutely insane from something that would shake up but not totally stir a human being. Even though Veigar's lore is OLD now if it still holds true then it suggests that yordles have a mentallity that on the one hand is naturally positive and happy, but can go down a super dark road super quickly if things aren't right. For a being like the River King, who feeds on despair, that's efficiency right there; more despair and way less effort on the demon's part to bring it about.

That'd also give some insight in to why he doesn't give to much of a sod about Veigar; he's already fallen to despair and went mad. Potentially our esteemed River King was involved in it, and Veigar made an unwitting deal with the infamous demon, ultimately leading to his incarceration and insanity.

LaoBushidoNov 28, 20153 votes

in the illaoi qand a they said there will be an announcement made concerning yordles soon my guess is this will be explained with poppy's release

SaltyToplaneGoatNov 28, 20151 votes

Also in the Q&A they said foundations will reveal something about the spirits/deities of Runeterra... those two things falling together... TRULY SUSPICIOUS!

RebonackNov 28, 20152 votes

It's possible, given that her people live in the ass-end of nowhere, that she has no idea what a Yordle is and assumes they're a spirit of some kind.

5000000000000000Nov 28, 20151 votes

Hopefully that's just a mistake. I mean, Kindred are spirits, right?

SaltyToplaneGoatNov 28, 20151 votes

The Kindred are not yordles tho... also I doubt that it is a mistake as they surely test those things before writing it into the wiki.

And I also doubt that Riot screws up with three lines at once, especially since she has other lines for spiritual beings.

All Might JrNov 28, 20151 votes

Well shit glad I wasn't the only one to see this.

SaltyToplaneGoatNov 28, 20151 votes

I was kinda waiting for a thread to pop up on the boards about this as it seems a little... strange ^^

RalanrNov 28, 20151 votes

It could be a hint to possible developments. After all, new Poppy points out that a Targonian would want gems if they robbed a bank.

Which Yordle does she do the empathy quote for?

LaoBushidoNov 28, 20151 votes

as all youdle have to meet with tahm at some point you temmo satan thing could have traction

ValexforNov 28, 20151 votes

Is there still someone who doesn't acknowledge teemo as Runeterra's satan?

Sardonic SlothNov 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eLmcd5VT,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-28T18:24:47.021+0000) Also... Considering the theory that yordles are indeed spiritual manifestations, doesn't that open up the possibility that Teemo is indeed the living satan of Runeterra?

Fairly unlikely since it is pretty much already established that Tahm Kench is Runeterra's version of Satan.

AuroramancerNov 29, 20151 votes

TL;DR- Yordles are spirits helpful to mankind. Illaoi seeing one is an insult to her strength and fortitude. Tahm Kench wants to exploit mankind, so he rivals helpful yordles. Gregor from the Howling Abyss is insulted by a visiting yordle because their appearance before him would imply that he is not a proud Iceborn warrior, but a regular human. Yordles physically manifest according to their spiritual nature (militaristic ones will appear as soldiers, scientists will be exaggerated as such, and a righteous one such as Poppy will look like a Demacian soldier), which explains why they all look different.

In lieu of Tahm considering certain yordles to be rivals, and Illaoi seeing yordles as spirits...

I think it's plausible so say that yordles, in general, are viewed as helpful spirits by peoples outside of Bandle City. (Poppy is a good instance of this. She is trying to deliver a legendary hammer to a worthy hero, and would probably be viewed as a helpful wandering spirit trying to give away a fantastic weapon) Whereas Tahm Kench (and his considered ally, Aatrox), seem to be more malevolent spirits that represent different thematics (such as Desire and Wrath)

Of Tahm's rivals, Corki, Heimerdinger, Rumble, Tristana, and Ziggs, all have some form of technology about them, whether they are pioneering it or using it. Tahm Kench hangs around Bilgewater now, and Bilgewater seems to be a bit more primitive in terms of technology, and there is a kind of mythological/spiritual culture about the place. Tahm Kench, being a spirit himself, would thrive here. The technological advancement of the 5 technological yordles contradict a culture of spirituality. Tahm Kench cannot thrive in a world where technology pushes out spirituality.

Lulu and Gnar were suspended in time, so they are technically very old. Perhaps Tahm dislikes them because they know of the world long ago, and may have an inkling of Tahm's true nature, before he assumed the form of the charismatic catfish.

Kennen, being a part of the Kinkou Order (I think that's what it's called??), is a fighter for balance in the world. Tahm thrives off imbalance in the hearts of people, so Kennen and Tahm's ideals conflict in this way.

Poppy, being attracted to Demacia and looking up to the likes of Garen, probably has some ideals pertaining to lawful righteousness and mental fortitude. Again, contradicting Tahm's ideals and success.

I don't know what to make of Tahm's relation to Teemo and Fizz.

And the bottom line of all of this: Illaoi recognizes yordles to be spirits who aid humans.

Another thing of interest is that Gregor (ghost shopkeeper on Howling Abyss), says to visiting yordles "A yordle?! Gah!" What comes to my mind is that Gregor takes pride in being an Iceborn ("I am Iceborn!"), and having a yordle appear to him is insulting his being. Gregor says that the Iceborn "were human once", and he takes pride in being an Iceborn. Having a yordle appear before him would be to imply "you are not Iceborn, you are a regular human". So to Gregor, seeing a yordle is a bit insulting to who he is.

Setting aside the ideals of the above yordles and how they conflict with Tahm, reconsider their spiritual nature: helpful spirits to mankind. Tahm seeks to exploit men for the sake of his own gain, and helpful spirits would undo that. Yordles being spirits would also help to explain why they look so different from one another. They physically manifest according to their thematic/ideal, which may have some implications for Teemo and Fizz's purpose, based on how they look.

All just hypothesis though.

Painkiller990Nov 30, 20151 votes

^ I really like this theory, it explains how every yordle is different and why they are all different. Veigar being bad, teemo being a scout, heifer a scientist etc. To clarify, Tahm kench dislikes fizz because he is the last of his kind. They may have disappeared but my theory is that Tahm Kench ate them. He say's ti fizz "Wouldn't you care to travel to your people's destination?" meaning he knows where they are, or were. We know he can time travel because he says to gnar, "Time is just a river, boy, let me take you back where you belong." This implies that he could take fizz back in time to his people and finish the job. Or just eat fizz when he jumped in his mouth. I have no idea why he hates teem other than this one quote, "You're as likable as a rat in a bridle shop."

Painkiller990Nov 30, 20151 votes

I would like to quickly point out that in the yordle lore it states, "All Yordles have encountered TahmKench at various times. This is because of their races specific nature that makes them more perceptible to inner demons when socially outcast. When not, they are hard to be manipulated, which is why almost all Yordles are seen by this demon as rivals."