I feel like Kindred was a flop.

Shroom Junkie··9 votes·1,222 views

I mean, they try to take this awesome idea of two beings that could have easily been made so much cooler, such as two champions that you switch between to work together like a Shaco ult, or possibly just switch between at spawn with different play types(I saw a great, well-thought out idea like this once), but instead... they ruined that idea. They took the awesome idea of a double champion and they just ruined it and made the other half a particle effect. Literally, Kindred could be someone from Zaun that has jump-boots, a turret, a satellite targeting device, and some kind of Ekko wanna-be device that stops death for a time. Wolf is literally one ability that just randomly bites people in an area, and is an annoying voice in the background.

When people refer to Kindred, they refer to 'them' as 'she' because Lamb is the prominent figure.

When I think of Kindred, I think of lamb. When I see the splash art, Lamb is the prominence while Wolf is like Helmet Bro in the Talon splash art. He's big, he's easily noticeable, but he's not the prominence. He isn't equal to lamb when he should be. Lamb is the one people attack, its the one with the higher, more noticeable voice in the VO, she is Kindred. Wolf is not. Wolf is the weird, dark, unseeable particle. If memory serves Nocturne was made brighter because he was too dark to see and was a problem. Or maybe that was a champion that had its lore changed so it didn't look the same. Either way that is Wolf, he's so dark I never even really see him, when I see the AOE of the ability he's in then I finally notice him. Heck, when he's coming to bite me and slow me and set the mark for the three-hit, I barely notice its wolf and not just a black blob.

Maybe its just me, but I think Kindred's lore should be taken and replaced with a new champion. They should change Kindred's lore, look, VO, etc., and take either Kindred or a new duel champion and make it into an actual duel champion that is noticeably contributing to the game, that can be seen and thought of when we think of or see the champion(s).

21 Comments

Elite4Runner4 votes

I was prepared to fight you on this, but ... I can't. You're absolutely right. I was going to fight you because I like Kindred's kit as a champion, but SHE is not a dual champion as described.

YCitizenSnipsY3 votes

I've said it from the release that kindred is not a dual champion. That wolf is only as important as Ori's ball or the little bird that circles Janna, just a tool the actual champion uses. Wolf doesn't even feel like part of the champion. I'm also slightly biased becasue I absolutely hate "their" lore and the whole cheap angle of "they are literally death."

Furor Nexis3 votes

Considering Kindred is the first type of duo champion of it's kind we've seen where they interact with each other too, there was bound to be some fallbacks and things that didn't work in their design. Riot just has to move forward and see what can work out better for the next time they introduce a duo champion.

Shroom Junkie2 votes

Well I mean, they don't really interact with each-other all that much. Wolf is essentially a low cooldown Heimerdinger turret with an uptime. When the third hit for the slow ability that she hits 3 times is activated, Wolf is pretty much an unnoticeable particle effect that bites at them. I mean if we're being honest this champion could easily be a singular with a different lore that wouldn't be that hard to make. Someone like Nidalee or Elise is more of a duo-champion than Kindred and they aren't even duos, they're just one person transforming. When I imagined Kindred on the teaser and before I saw the abilities, I thought it would be like Nidalee or Elise, or even better, like a Shaco ult or LeBlanc passive. Maybe a whole new idea of them being interchangeable at spawn for different playstyles- one passive and ranged with her little bow, one ham and melee chasing down people like Warwick. But instead, we got a second Kalista with a shadow that they got people hyped for with its wasted lore.

Valendrus3 votes

I like them. If it had been like a Cho'Gal or Lost Vikings type thing from Heroes, I would have hated it. I think of them as two haves of one whole. Yes lamb is more of the focal point but think of it like this. God and the Devil both deal with death (Heaven V Hell), god is the focal point as opposed to the devil because we want to see the good vs the evil. Lamb is the peaceful way of death, the acceptance that your time is over, wolf isnt, wolf is the one they send when people refuse to go, we dont want to see that side. Yes wolf only has one skill, but again think of it not who has a certain amount of skills but think of it like this. Without the wolf lamb could not use her Q faster in his W, wolf bites them and she shoots them, every skill (expect R) uses them in tandem, they use each other. I don't think kindred is a perfect champion, but to say she was a flop when there are far worse champions our there, is wrong

Shroom Junkie1 votes

Yes wolf only has one skill,

See, this is what I'm talking about. Wolf is part of 4 skills, but nobody even notices. Firstly, he's the thing that chases you down when Kindred procs all 3 hits of her slow ability. Secondly, he's the turret. Thirdly, he helps with the ultimate, and fourthly, he's the thing that chases down enemies with the passive. Or, part of it.

I personally loved Cho'Gall and the Lost Vikings from HotS. It was interesting and unique and different. Sure the idea of having an OP singular-double-person champion would be kind of dumb, but there's still the idea of having two champions that can change for different play styles at spawn or possibly just another Nidalee-Elise like champion. Anything but what they have now where Wolf is essentially just particles and lore and nothing else.

Ralanr2 votes

That would be a giant waste of time and resources.

Shroom Junkie2 votes

Well seeing as Jinx's character was made into a skinny girl hauling around huge guns because too many girls had an average body type on League, it shows Riot doesn't like making multiple of the same character and I've made plenty of duel-champion ideas that were shut down because Kindred is supposed to be one, so I think it would be a giant waste of a character and a possible kit.

Ralanr1 votes

That doesn't mean that they should take Kindred's lore, VO, and model and use it for an entirely different champion. That would be a massive waste of time and resources.

Personal feelings to do not change this fact.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

Why not? They have the choice of A. Making a new lore, VO, and model for a new champion, and leaving Kindred as the wannabe duo champion that stole and ruined any possible ideas for an ACTUAL duo champion, or B. Making a new lore, VO, and model for Kindred and using the new, free slot to either make a new Kindred or make an entirely new duo champion in general.

Sure, I'd be open to Kindred staying and a new duo champion being made that does the idea justice, but it seems Riot wouldn't want to do that.

Ralanr2 votes

Because Kindred already exists. I don't think she was ever designed as a duo champion, rather the community just made a bunch of assumptions based off of Dha-Ma. So there is nothing preventing Riot from making a duo champion.

What you're asking is on the same level as reverting a champion rework. It's just a waste of time and money, which isn't in the best interests of a company like Riot.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

Again, I have nothing against keeping Kindred, as long as it doesn't interfere with actually making a duo champion.

Skelenth1 votes

Why don't ask for a rework of Kindred instead of changing both them and making another champion?

Shroom Junkie1 votes

Because I don't want to rework them, I'm fine with their kit. Its if they stop any actual duo champions from happening that I have a problem with.

TurquoiseYoshi2 votes

Maybe Riot will make another dual champion soon, in the same vein as that Dha'ma concept that circulated a while back. The lore might be near Kindred's, but I think that some sort of twin power could be used in favor of god power.

Furor Nexis2 votes

Gameplay-wise, Kindred has a pretty interesting kit and mechanics. And to be honest, they both share the ability pool. Wolf is massively present in two of Kindred's abilities, and Lamb is present in two as well. I think Kindred's faltering was not being a 1v1 ganker kind of jungler. There was also the marking system, which is pretty cool, but fell shorter than expected from my own experience of using them.

I will say this though; Kindred has devastating power if given half the chance. Don't underestimate people who play as them.

Elite4Runner4 votes

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Gameplay-wise, Kindred has a pretty interesting kit and mechanics. And to be honest, they both share the ability pool. Wolf is massively present in two of Kindred's abilities, and Lamb is present in two as well. I think Kindred's faltering was not being a 1v1 ganker kind of jungler. There was also the marking system, which is pretty cool, but fell shorter than expected from my own experience of using them.

I will say this though; Kindred has devastating power if given half the chance. Don't underestimate people who play as them.

I think what Coriandr is getting at is that in Kindred's W Wolf is a passive sentry that attacks a lot like Malzahar's Voidlings (pre-rework at least) and he doesn't really even deal all that impressive amounts of damage without going full AD, which is not really a very effective way to itemize Kindred. Even with attack speed, Wolf's attack speed is cut in half. The stronger application of this ability is really it's interaction with Kindred's Q ability, which as you mentioned, is a Lamb-featured ability. As for Wolf's other ability, E, Lamb still needs to complete 2 auto attacks before Wolf even becomes involved. On the third attack wolf is essentially an augmented visual effect for an auto attack that deals enhanced damage.

Other than the voice over, visual effects, and mediocre supplemental damage from Kindred's W, Wolf is pretty much non-existent.

Digielf1 votes

Kindred on her own would be a really good champion because we didnt have a sheep/lamb but the wolf was not nessesary (i cant learn to write this word correctly) at all and he reminds Warwick. It should be a white and black sheep instead of sheep and wolf

Ralanr2 votes

Originally Wolf was suppose to turn into the bow if we base this off concept art. I wish that stayed in development.

GreenLore1 votes

While I do like Kindred a lot,I have to agree that they execute the idea of a dual-champ not that well.

I mean I think they said that they tried to incorporate some stuff like making them seperately controllable or something like that,but it just didn't work out.

Though I have to say that something like the popular Dha Mha concept might have worked better as a dual-champ http://i.imgur.com/zk1Ktce.jpg You know,simply having 2 bodies that you control like one champion.

Shadow Hazard1 votes

I think that the issue is that the only real proper way that they would know how to make them a "duo champ" is using a method that they have done already and probably didn't want to reuse again. The range/melee hybrid champ with lamb being the range portion and wolf being the melee portion.

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