Why are people upset that a misunderstood "Villain" is being seen as a Villain by other people....

ModAcademy Kayn·Aug 10, 2016·20 votes·1,593 views

who don't understand what he has been through? People have to remember that characters in a story don't have the 3rd person view we do. They don't know about Stanwick's betrayal, like we do, and as such they have to fill in the dots using Rumors, media, or newspapers, however false it might be.

Say that someone who had never heard of Viktor was watching the news, and the media described some crazy robot cultist leader named Viktor. That news from media skipped over "small" details about it being your choice to convert, he wasn't going to force you, or how it might benefit you. Why? Because it's the news, they want a headline story quick and easy to grab viewers attentions, how ever false or uninformed it might be. So people become uninformed and from their views that Viktor is evil.

Not everyone knows how Viktor was betrayed, and certainly a lot of people aren't going to understand why people would want to become a cyborg/machine/whatever, and as such people are going to view Viktor as a villain, a danger to their normal, every day life. For all we know, Jayce is further hurting Viktor by spreading propaganda to further spread his name about Piltover.

TL;DR: People do not know Viktor's backstory. He is viewed evil by those who are uninformed or scared. Just because they are uninformed, does not mean they are right.

p.s jayce sucks

39 Comments

SharjoAug 10, 20169 votes

I mean, this is the boards that had a big thread put up where the OP and many others voiced their concernes that Riot was trying to make Viktor a bad guy because of Ekko's opinion, where people were genuinely confused why Taliyah would be at all concerned about the return of Azir considering the circumstances of Shurima's fall, and where someone called out Riot, specifically WAAARGHbobo about the direction Riot was taking Noxus because of Kled's opinion. In all of these cases this stuff can be explained by the limited perspectives, flawed personalities and differing opinions of those in-universe characters, but people can't seem to wrap their heads around why that might be the case.

I suppose it stems somewhat from having your writers converse with the fans more often than they would in most other kinda of media, but it's also people just not looking at things from alternate perspectives. As such people misunderstand because they themselves look at things in the same way as an in-universe character would, but do so not because that's the only perspective they can have as is the case for the in-universe folks, but because they're just not thinking about it hard enough. They look at things on the surface and don't consider where such views, opinions and beliefs come from.

Basically people aren't putting enough thought in to the lore. THINK MORE YOU TWATS. THINK. That's just general life advice; the more you understand, the easier life becomes, so just take the time to think more, even if the end result ends up being exactly the same.

The Anagram KingAug 11, 20164 votes

Jayce's lore already happened. There's a precedent for Riot's narrative team doing Viktor wrong, then "OOPS!"-ing and changing a couple things to make him not seem quite as weak (still steals a crystal and smashes Jayce though).

It's already happened. The slips where Riot implicates Vik as a villain just open old wounds. And let's not forget that there's not a single "I think Viktor might be on to something!" character in the game. Not even Heimerdinger, who's a genuine intellectual.

MarbelaraAug 11, 20163 votes

Aaaaand Heimer reads the Piltovian newspaper like everyone else. He is not overly concerned with Viktor's hypothetical sob story, will not research into it, and he can not just psyche up the truth. He's a genuine intellectual but he's not a god, c'mon.

Not everyone has to look for the good in others. Sometimes they are just accepted as evil and left at that. Is that unfair? Yeah. Is that realistic? Also yeah :(

See? Think as these characters, trying to cast away the truth for a time. That's what Riot is visibly doing with the VO's.

333lomAug 11, 20162 votes

And all of that is cool! The story becomes infinitelly more interesting when many characters aren't aware of the truth or just don't care about it, but we the readers are able to see the whole picture.

It's also fun when there are people with the same view on some chars as the in-world characters, because they're also not interested in learning the whole story.

I think the person above was trying to point out that nobody is actually upset about that, rather with the possibility that Riot might add a piece of lore whic indeed does make Viktor a villain. Such as, adding a story where Viktor burned down an orphanage or something.

Also, the dynamic of the story would become more interesting if a character appeared who claims, "hey guys, Viktor's a good guy!", because that would create confusion and clash of beliefs between the characters themselves.

GreenLoreAug 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Anagram King,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=aVt0MXho,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T04:35:18.499+0000) Not even Heimerdinger, who's a genuine intellectual.

Heimers quote "If you seek to replace all humans, there will be no one left to appreciate your work."

doesn't dismiss Viktor as evil. He only implies that Viktors desire for recognition is still one of his main motivations,which isn't that unlikely,considering that it was the reason why viktor turned himself into a cyborg in the first place.

FasmodeyAug 10, 20166 votes

It is the opposite when it comes to Xerath. People think Xerath is pure evil, and Riot thinks he is not that evil and he has reasons.

I'm still confused how Xerath is not a totally bad guy according to Riot. Burning mom and baby alive, turning emperor and soldiers to ashes, pushing Renekton to madness, killing innocent villagers and more murders that he did when he was human for his benefits.

He is currently overlord of evilness, and I really wonder how he is going to be seemed less evil in future stories. I mean, they still continue to say he is not that evil, but after things he did, what can change Xerath? Why would he change? I really wonder answers of these questions.

GreenLoreAug 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

It is the opposite when it comes to Xerath. People think Xerath is pure evil, and Riot thinks he is not that evil and he has reasons.

I'm still confused how Xerath is not a totally bad guy according to Riot. Burning mom and baby alive, turning emperor and soldiers to ashes,

Well to be fair,that was partially also to protect Azir,because the emporer would have killed azir(and possibly xerath as well) if he got another child.

And well the thousand years of imprisonment were likely not very healthy for his mental state.

FasmodeyAug 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Well to be fair,that was partially also to protect Azir,because the emporer would have killed azir(and possibly xerath as well) if he got another child.

And well the thousand years of imprisonment were likely not very healthy for his mental state.

He is master of plans. He could show empress and child as dead and push them away without any contact to Emperor. Tending them to live an average life, but still not burned in unimaginable pain.

He chose an easier way without caring about human life. He is still evil, even for whatever reasons he had.

IF they ever, ever want to show Xerath as less evil, he should have 2 personalities (chaotic neutral and neutral evil) which would be dumb as hell even though it would make him less evil because of mental illness, or he should help Runeterra in one of the best ways, like without him Runeterra would be in super high danger and millions of living would be dead. Or he saves one of the Ascended from death.

I also don't think that much hatred from a person would be enough to imprison someone for another person. If Xerath really, really hated Nasus so much, he wouldn't care about Renekton. I believe he wanted to imprison Nasus as how he did to him and harm Nasus with Renekton's madness. So, he doesn't wanna kill him but make him pay.

GreenLoreAug 11, 20161 votes

You really expect the empress to obey a slave and live a life as a commoner in hiding? Meanwhile the already paranoid emporer would just accept that his wife and child went missing when he already thought azir wanted to backstab him?

If Xerath had tried to hide the empress somewhere she would have returned and simply executed Xerath(and likely Azir) as well. Not to mention that if the empress mysteriously vanished,then the emporer would have likely accused Azir of being responsible for it.

And its pretty clear that Xerath wants Nasus to be killed by his brother(or make him suffer by forcing him to kill his brother),I mean in the recent lore piece he even spared Nasus because of that.

FasmodeyAug 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You really expect the empress to obey a slave and live a life as a commoner in hiding? Meanwhile the already paranoid emporer would just accept that his wife and child went missing when he already thought azir wanted to backstab him?

If Xerath had tried to hide the empress somewhere she would have returned and simply executed Xerath(and likely Azir) as well. Not to mention that if the empress mysteriously vanished,then the emporer would have likely accused Azir of being responsible for it.

And its pretty clear that Xerath wants Nasus to be killed by his brother(or make him suffer by forcing him to kill his brother),I mean in the recent lore piece he even spared Nasus because of that.

Xerath can control mind. He could delete her memories and banish her from Citadel forever.

If he is master of dark magic, he can also create illusions. So it could be enough see your wife and child dead for Emperor. In the end, he even deceived Nasus and Renekton from reading his mind.

You can't really know that until we see new lore. I already know I have possibility to be bullshiting, but Xerath is arrogant. He doesn't wanna seem weak. You can't know his true thoughts until Riot explains. It wouldn't be the first time in fiction history anyway. There are a lot characters who don't wanna seem weak and say things that they actually are not going to do.

He can think Nasus and Renekton as their equal, and fighting would no bring any death result. It is like how a similar thing happened in Jigsaw. A chainsaw, 2 boys, 1 girl. One of them is going to die. Boys should push or one of 2 boys will be ripped. Only guilty is girl. In mind of Jigsaw, girl has to die. But from away, it looks like everyone has death chance. No, for Jigsaw, those 2 boys have equal power and they nearly have no chance to die.

GreenLoreAug 11, 20162 votes

So you expect him to have mind control powers for no reason whatsoever?

Dark magic is a very broad word,it doesn't necessarily mean that he can control others minds or create illusions.

And Xerath himself said that he wants Renekton to kill Nasus(or at least fight him),Xerath had the chance to kill Nasus,but refused to do so. If the 2 are equal,then it will likely result in both of their deaths,which likely would be fine for xerath.

FasmodeyAug 11, 20161 votes

Behind the war-beasts, a host of tribal warbands advanced on the city beneath a wide variety of carved totems. Five hundred warriors at least; light skirmishers, whooping horse-archers, and fighting men bearing scale shields and heavy axes. Nasus felt the touch of a dominating will upon them, knowing that many of these tribes would normally tear each other’s throats out on sight.

-----------------------------------o-----------------------------------

Nasus saw a group of five warriors blocking the exit from the plaza. They had their backs to him, but turned at the sound of him unsheathing his axe. He should have felt their terror at the prospect of fighting an Ascended warrior, but the blue fire of Xerath’s will burned in their eyes and they feared nothing.

When Xerath was clashed with Nasus, Xerath lost his magical control and warriors ran away in terror.

A shockwave of magical energy exploded outward, spinning people away like leaves in a hurricane. The nearest buildings collapsed as the seismic force shattered their walls. Vekaura’s people fled, trying to find safety in the midst of these brawling gods of ancient days. His hold upon them broken, Xerath’s warriors scattered and ran for the edges of the city. Flames erupted as Xerath called arcane fire from the heart of his being and unleashed it indiscriminately.

Well, he does in lore. He controls mind of at least 500 men in Bloodline, and it is not related to his Ascension. This power doesn't come from Ascension. Ascension may give him higher magical control and improved spell powers but it is still his human spell. Even if it was weaker when he was human, he probably had potential to control a non-magical, fragile human being.

And Xerath himself said that he wants Renekton to kill Nasus(or at least fight him),Xerath had the chance to kill Nasus,but refused to do so.

You don't say? I'm explaining it and you're just saying the same thing over and over.

Or they would fight like how they did against Xerath and no one would have victory.

ModAcademy KaynAug 11, 20162 votes

He's had 1000 years (more or less) to practice his arts. We have been given no inclination to believe that Xerath had mind control powers during his slave-years, since it was never mentioned, nor was it brought up once.

FasmodeyAug 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=aVt0MXho,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T19:04:15.732+0000)

He's had 1000 years (more or less) to practice his arts. We have been given no inclination to believe that Xerath had mind control powers during his slave-years, since it was never mentioned, nor was it brought up once.

Xerath's magics are developed and searched. He learned his magic from ancient books. We don't know if he can create non existing magic from his mind or he surely needs developed magic to cast.

Even if he can cast undeveloped magic, even if he had no mind control in his human life, Xerath was intelligent. He could find a way that is without causing extreme pain and death. I just gave an example.

GreenLoreAug 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Well, he does in lore. He controls mind of at least 500 men in Bloodline, and it is not related to his Ascension. This power doesn't come from Ascension. Ascension may give him higher magical control and improved spell powers but it is still his human spell. Even if it was weaker when he was human, he probably had potential to control a non-magical, fragile human being.

Who says that it is still a human spell? The ascended powers aren't equal.Nasus and Renekton gained the abilities to grow gigantic,wheras Azir got the ability to raise sand soldiers and the capital of shurima. Xeraths ascension was completely different,so there is nothing really that says that he had them before. Even more there is the fact that like you said,his spell broke. However to get rid of the empress he would have needed to mind control her permanently,which isn't possible for him(even after the ascension). Otherwise the empress would just return.

You don't say? I'm explaining it and you're just saying the same thing over and over.

Or they would fight like how they did against Xerath and no one would have victory.

If 2 equal fighters fight,trying to kill each other,then it will end in the death of one of them,or even both,even if it would take days or weeks,one of them would eventually fall,they would both tire out eventually and one of them would succeed in landing a deceisive blow.

FasmodeyAug 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Who says that it is still a human spell? The ascended powers aren't equal.Nasus and Renekton gained the abilities to grow gigantic,wheras Azir got the ability to raise sand soldiers and the capital of shurima. Xeraths ascension was completely different,so there is nothing really that says that he had them before. Even more there is the fact that like you said,his spell broke. However to get rid of the empress he would have needed to mind control her permanently,which isn't possible for him(even after the ascension). Otherwise the empress would just return.

If 2 equal fighters fight,trying to kill each other,then it will end in the death of one of them,or even both,even if it would take days or weeks,one of them would eventually fall,they would both tire out eventually and one of them would succeed in landing a deceisive blow.

His spell was broke because neither he didn't want to hold them anymore or his control on mind magic was taken off by the energy of magical shockwave.

Anyway, it was just an example. Xerath was intelligent enough to find another way that excludes causing unimaginable pain and death.

Bound and Newly Awaken Xerath was equal to Full Potential Nasus and Renekton according to Riot, none of them died.

It is like saying equally powerful 2 strong men with equal techniques in bare hand fight could kill each other. Not really. They both would fall, be harmed but not dead. Yes Renekton and Nasus don't fight in bare hand fight, but neither they're ordinary entities. There are much tougher than any human being. So, I believe, their fight wouldn't end with death.

GreenLoreAug 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

His spell was broke because neither he didn't want to hold them anymore or his control on mind magic was taken off by the energy of magical shockwave.

His spell was broken either because his concentration was broken or because he suffered from the attack.

Anyway, it was just an example. Xerath was intelligent enough to find another way that excludes causing unimaginable pain and death.

We are still talking about the wife of a paranoid emporer and Xerath was only a slave back then. Sure he is smart and was already good at magic,but he can't do everything.

Bound and Newly Awaken Xerath was equal to Full Potential Nasus and Renekton according to Riot, none of them died.

It is like saying equally powerful 2 strong men with equal techniques in bare hand fight could kill each other. Not really. They both would fall, be harmed but not dead. Yes Renekton and Nasus don't fight in bare hand fight, but neither they're ordinary entities. There are much tougher than any human being. So, I believe, their fight wouldn't end with death.

The thing is that we are talking about guys with magical powers and sharp weapons. If 2 samurai fight and are evenly matched,then one of them will eventually stab the other one(or both stab each other),causing the stabbed to bleed to death.

FasmodeyAug 11, 20162 votes

His spell was broken either because his concentration was broken or because he suffered from the attack.

Xerath can hold unimaginable amount of arcane energy. He can hold this much energy and yet he lose his concentration on mind magic on simple beings? Their minds are probably so fragile, he doesn't even need to think about it. Also, if it was suffering, story would imply it. Because they explain every attack in detail. Xerath was suffered by only magical attacks and they implied it. There is no thing to suffer anyway. He has no material body, he is pure energy. He has no organs to feel pain. It is only his soul that can feel pain and it can only be touched by magic.

We are still talking about the wife of a paranoid emporer and Xerath was only a slave back then. Sure he is smart and was already good at magic,but he can't do everything.

Paranoid emperor doesn't mean he can assume anything Xerath can ever do. Xerath was super intelligent, probably in genius level. His talents on math and art was surprising for such a young kid. So, Xerath could find a way that can be hiden from even a paranoid emperor.

If 2 samurai fight and are evenly matched

If you gave Nasus and Renekton super uber powerful artifacts, yes. They could kill each other. But their axes are like bare hands for them. They have high resistance, they have high regeneration. Their axes are not enough to kill an Ascended with one shot. It is not like 2 samurais with 2 katanas, it is like 2 strong men with strong punches.

Many punch can kill a man yes, but it is not possible for equally strong men, but 1 katana can kill a man with barely effort. So, if you believe Nasus could die with only one axe strike of Renekton, okay then.

CatastropAug 11, 20161 votes

Except he was a good person, he had good intentions(rather misguided in how he went about it but still good.) Essentially, Pre Ascension Xerath is the one that isn't evil and has reasons, current Xerath after 1000 years of imprisonment is understandably less than stable.

FasmodeyAug 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Except he was a good person, he had good intentions(rather misguided in how he went about it but still good.) Essentially, Pre Ascension Xerath is the one that isn't evil and has reasons, current Xerath after 1000 years of imprisonment is understandably less than stable.

C'mon, you can't see a person who burns child and mom as good with whatever reason. Think realistic. Just because it is a story, acts of characters are not tended to be less wicked. You probably would feel full hatred against a person who burned a child in real life with whatever reason. In the best scenario, you can see him as neutral, not good.

MarbelaraAug 11, 20161 votes

He can be seen as devoted. Tbh at that point he was unstable, but I was initially both horrified and amazed at his level of layalty towards Azir. Remember, Azir would be killed if that child were to live :(

CatastropAug 11, 20161 votes

I can see a lot of what would otherwise be seen as immoral things as good with reason. That's just life, things aren't all rainbows and daisies. However like I said, for Xerath, it was good intentions but horribly tragic way to go about it. That's not so say I'd know how he could have done things better, but he did what he had to do.

FasmodeyAug 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I can see a lot of what would otherwise be seen as immoral things as good with reason. That's just life, things aren't all rainbows and daisies. However like I said, for Xerath, it was good intentions but horribly tragic way to go about it. That's not so say I'd know how he could have done things better, but he did what he had to do.

You still support burning child and mom alive, leaving them in unimaginable pain, in without doubt, one of the most terrfiying deaths. Burning is awfully painful you know. You think it can be a correct way to kill someone just because he had ''good intentions''. He could kill them in less painful way. He could behead them with magical cuts easily or whatever less painful deaths you could cause with magic.

ModAcademy KaynAug 11, 20161 votes

Well he had to, to make it seem like it was lightning killing them, and in a sense it was.

FasmodeyAug 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=aVt0MXho,comment-id=000100010000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T18:59:44.528+0000)

Well he had to, to make it seem like it was lightning killing them, and in a sense it was.

No, he said it was rogue mages who were from a enemy civilization of Shurima Empire , or something. But in the end, he said she and her child was assasinated, not was a random lightning.

CatastropAug 12, 20161 votes

Like I said, misguided. I don't support him burning them, that's just awful, I do however support him killing them because as far as Xerath knew, they were what stood between his entire civilization and freedom. Seriously it never would have had to come to that had things just gone his way, but his plans repeatedly went south because of some variable he didn't take into account of(the king arriving at the scene) or flat out miracles(the son being born in the first place).

KeepeAug 11, 20162 votes

Personally, I still see Xerath as what he was rather than the dirtbag he was turned into with the Shurima Lore update.

Warlord DienekesAug 11, 20162 votes

So I got bored and stopped reading the big Shurima update. But you seem like you'd know the one question I had. Did Xerath ever give a reason why he was trying to kill the last descendants of Azir? From what I got to it just seemed like a rather pointless and Saturday morning cartoon villain thing to do.

FasmodeyAug 11, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=aVt0MXho,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2016-08-11T17:59:34.658+0000)

So I got bored and stopped reading the big Shurima update. But you seem like you'd know the one question I had. Did Xerath ever give a reason why he was trying to kill the last descendants of Azir? From what I got to it just seemed like a rather pointless and Saturday morning cartoon villain thing to do.

He only said he wants to end this bloodline of worthless emperor. He didn't give any valid reason. Probably there are other reasons. Maybe this bloodline has power of ressurection, so if Azir ever dies, he doesn't want him to come back.

Warlord DienekesAug 11, 20163 votes

That's just a guess though, right?

It seems one hell of a change when the updated lore specifically says that Azir was just about to give Xerath what he had always wanted to going ahead and trying to murder random civilians who have never actually done anything to him. It just seems so blatantly and pointlessly evil that I lost interest in Xerath as a character, right after they went to great lengths to try and make him at the very least pitiable.

In any case, thanks for the info.

FasmodeyAug 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=aVt0MXho,comment-id=0001000300000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T19:15:04.297+0000)

That's just a guess though, right?

It seems one hell of a change when the updated lore specifically says that Azir was just about to give Xerath what he had always wanted to going ahead and trying to murder random civilians who have never actually done anything to him. It just seems so blatantly and pointlessly evil that I lost interest in Xerath as a character, right after they went to great lengths to try and make him at the very least pitiable.

In any case, thanks for the info.

That's totally a guess. But Sivir's blood ressurected Azir, so I believe it is a strong guess.

I still love Xerath. I just don't want him to go full evil overlord and get endless enemies.

CommanderHakuSep 18, 20161 votes

I think Xerath is the villain League of Legends needs. He could be hated by everyone since he is one of the most powerful beings lore wise. He was hella strong before ascendancy and now he was strong enough to 2v1 Renekton and Nasus who have had YEARS to master their power. He is Evil form his motivation of POWER POWER POWER. He is the perfect villain to focus on for league.

Maximum MordeAug 11, 20163 votes

It's just like how Americans think the government is good for them.

ModAcademy KaynAug 11, 20166 votes

I'm confused to see how this is relevant.

Stars ShaperAug 11, 20163 votes

Hold on... where is mentioned that Jayce is spreading propaganda?

Also, Jayce has all the reasons to hate him since Viktor basically destroyed his lab and nearly killed him because Jayce refused to work with him and share the arcane crystal.

ModAcademy KaynAug 11, 20164 votes

For all we know,

This is an assumption on my part, a little theory. And I'm not discrediting Jayce, but fame can get to peoples head (and I have a head canon that he has a picture of himself on a cereal box). Besides, if, IF, Jayce makes people afraid of Viktor, who do they go to help stop him? Jayce, so his engineering business starts to rise. THEORIES

Stars ShaperAug 12, 20162 votes

Well those are a lot of "if"s, while believable you cannot make such extremized statements with all this theory. What if Viktor pursue of the glorious evolution made him a real psychopath and he is forcefully taking children of zaun to become his own robots?

Again, I can see your scenario as a possibility, but there is too much hypothetical fuel to it.

ModAcademy KaynAug 12, 20161 votes

I think i need to clarify that the example about Jayce was used only to explain why a public would be misinformed about Viktor. I don't mean to imply that is what is actually going on, nor that it is anyway true, I'm just trying to explain WHY people would be afraid of Viktor, regardless of what Viktor is actually doing.

KeepeAug 11, 20162 votes

He's got a Russian motif going on. Must be eeeeebils. =P