[LORE DISCUSSION] My Thoughts On Noxus' And Demacia's Portrayal in League's lore.

Vartius·1/25/2019, 3:57:01 PM·10 votes·8,335 views

(Note: I planned this to be far more brief, but it turned out like that. Sorry.)

Tl;dr: Noxus isn't all good, Demacia isn't all bad. Both regions make sense in the context of the lore.

There have been many posts complaining about the attempts by the writers to make the lore more morally grey. Most are aimed at Demacia's and Noxus' portrayal, as, they claim, instead of morally grey, Riot made Demacia the bad guys and Noxus the good guys. Now, I'd like to discuss that. Many people may feel like that's the case, because on paper Noxus does seem like the better place to an average, modern person. We value our personal freedom very highly, so we are quick to judge the regions based on that – Noxus allows it, while Demacia is very restrictive, therefore Noxus is better. But that's just the surface. Noxus may be more accepting, but that's because they value anything that helps with your survival – and that's an apt word; survival. One does not simply live in Noxus. One has to fight for it. Constant street fighting, maladies, famine, robberies, murders – it's enough you're just slightly weaker than someone else, or just more unlucky... and you will likely die. And no one will really care you did. All of it is in the background of many Noxian champions' lore. Karthus' sisters died of a malady. Darius and Draven were orphaned and had to fight for survival – had they lived in Demacia, they'd have probably been taken in by someone. Noxian cult of strength didn't come from nothing. It came out of necessity. And I didn't touch upon the worst part of Noxus; warmongering. No matter if we're talking about how good the regions are for the people or how good are they in general, Noxus' constant need for conquest shouldn't be seen as positive. For the people it means family members being drafted into war and likely killed. It means the mass murder of innocent civillians... But obviously, I don't need to explain to anyone why war is bad.

Now when it comes to Demacia – it's the opposite. It has always been. Where there is famine in Noxus, there is prosperity in Demacia. Where there are murder and robberies, there is law and justice. If someone finds you injured on the street in Demacia, they will help you. In Noxus they'd just ignore you or take your stuff before finishing you off. In many ways, Demacia is way better to live in than Noxus. They are also more peaceful. Now, obviously, with all those positives comes a hefty price; Demacia was built on phobias. They fear the mages, they fear anything that can disrupt their daily order. They fear many, many things... In this, Demacia is based on medieval societies that shared many of those phobias. After all, witch-hunts were a thing... But for the average Joe Demacia is a paradise compared to Noxus.

Both places have their positives and negatives, but I do see why people often forget about either... Thing is: lore usually focuses on the good sides of Noxus and the bad sides of Demacia. Why? Because the bad of Noxus and good of Demacia should be seen as a given. The negative sides of Noxus are seen as obvious and were focused on in the past, which is why the current writers would rather focus on something different – they don't remove the bad, but they show that there is also good – it's more interesting to write about. The negatives are usually in the background of the narrative, but with how slow the lore moves forward, readers start to focus on the face value of things; writers write about positives of Noxus, so Noxus must be good. The opposite goes for Demacia – the positives are obvious and were focused on in the past, so the writers want to focus on the bad. It's also very fulfilling to write about a character who's being discriminated because of something – that's why the mages of Demacia are often in the focus. With that being said, I do agree that sometimes the writers go a bit too far with Demacia in that case... But when taking everything into account the way these regions work makes sense. Noxus was built on the ruins of Mordekaiser's empire. It's hard to make a complete 180°, when the whole history of a region was based on conquest and tyranny. Noxus improved since the day of Mordekaiser's rule, but his reign left a mark. Demacia was built after rune wars. After the world was nearly destroyed by the mages. It was built as a safehaven, an isolationist nation, founded as a refuge from magic after the rune wars. With all of that it makes sense that they hate magic and act the way they do. It also makes sense that they have a strong sense of community and are generally willing to help people. And this is actually something not many people talk about – there is far more hope that Demacia will improve, than there is for Noxus. Noxus under Swain's rule, won't be changing their ways anytime soon... But Demacia? The current prince, someone next in line for the throne, is hiding a half-dragon in his guard. Jarvan IV is holding a bright future for Demacia, as he seems to be willing to change. Honestly, if not for the fact that League's lore is moving at a snail's pace I'd say that writers have some really cool things in store for Demacia... But unfortunately it'll likely all just remain as a hope for the future, rather than actual lore development. But as of now Jarvan IV seems like such a perfect ruler, that if it was a George R.R Martin novel, he'd likely die next chapter.

And as a final note: It seems like Noxus and Demacia are based on two sides of real medieval societies. Noxus took on the maladies, famine and poverty, while Demacia took the phobias and discrimination.

20 Comments

Pale Mask1/25/2019, 4:33:46 PM6 votes

You haven't really said anything of substance. People are aware that Demacia and Noxus have positives and negatives. The problem lies in the insistence of the writers on depicting certain traits whilst leaving out the other ones.

Demacia is boring. Every one of its stories is about mages or dealing with the magical. Despite the fact that the nation was founded because of the Rune Wars, it's impossible for humans not to let at least some of their fears go after centuries of living.

I'd prefer to see the Demacians strategize, or some political intrigue - engage in more mundane matters, instead of just mages. Why not depict a critical battle in Demacian history, for example?

Compare that to Noxus. Noxus is a bad place. Nearly every Noxian champion we have is immoral, megalomaniacal, or has a personality disorder. But what you see in their stories is inclusivity, and the strengthening of others. It's not honest to what they actually are.

Lady Sylum1/25/2019, 6:51:02 PM3 votes

I just want to add in that reason Demacia's land is so abundant is because it's been absorbing magic . Pretricide in nature and the weapons and items people bring into the country has been stealing magic from everywhere it spreads. The Demacian prosperity is built on ignorance. Plus there's the hidden organization that uses magic in the name of Demacia but will let the innocent poor be banished or killed. You are one of them until they discover you are not, and from there you must be eliminated. Hell, even if you are devoted to Demacia , if you are too "different" they turn you away . ( I'm referencing Quinn's lore here. In there , even though Quinn's skills were beyond impressive they almost didn't let her join the force because they were too closed minded). Your life is dedicated to maintaining the status quo and following tradition, at times with you not much of a choice especially if you are female or of female nobility.Fiora Lux

AS to Noxus , if you are fierce enough in might, or sight, or guile you can become anyone you want you no matter where you started. You don't necessarily have to be a warrior. Does not matter who are or where you come from if you can prove yourself , you can have a life. It will be hard, but it should make you stronger, And even if you of someone of high position you can still be taken down. You can't rest on your laurels too long. Which is definitely not the cases in Demacia.

But yeah....The constant battle, the constant creation of orphans that are most vulnerable to accept the Noxus way of way, the belief that the greatest mercy is to destroy your enemy quickly and to sacrifice your own fighters to win , the promise that you are allowed to keep you customs , culture, etc as long as you pledge to Noxus, the constant goal of expanding the empire but never telling the people _why.Swain _, infiltrating and manipulating other countries and history Leblanc ....the whole thing about child soldiers.Kayn

But honestly if you pick them apart , you can find a number of themes they have in common. I'm not really stating a full opinion here just a list of observations. If you were to look at each nation from a particular champs point of view you'd see difference depending on their role and/station in life. You could on about for days and there's still too much not known ( like what the hell is going on with the Illuminators and how did they come to exist and who runs them , who are the other members? Who would be the Noxus equivalent of Sylas? Maybe VladimirVladimir as he starts to become more invested in controlling the flow of power in the Black Rose and the leadership..etc etc ).

Side note: The note you that made about that Demacia was basically founded by _refugees _( refugees of war no less) was really interesting. Much appreciated.

Stars Shaper1/25/2019, 4:05:29 PM2 votes

There is no "given" when Demacia is presented as an Orwellian society. Nothing in the Demacian lore that has been given to us presented even a single part of it being a nice place to live. Prosper maybe, but not nice, especially as a state.

Now, the parts where you say "in Demacia if the find you injuried on the street they will help you" it's our assumption. There has been nothing good in Demacia that couldn't be found even in Noxus, I'm sure that a lot of ppl in Noxus would rather take advantage of you but this is a human trait, not a Noxian/Demacian/Ionian.

NotaRobot10061/25/2019, 4:54:35 PM2 votes

You raise a lot of good points. Noxus' "The strong prosper" mentality is really only good if you're one of the strong ones.

Or, you know, rich. It's way easier to get strong when you can afford tutors and weapons.

Chromatic Eagle1/26/2019, 12:48:37 PM2 votes

Demacians fear of magic was understandable when I thought mages were a rarity. Most of their experiences come from outside threats. So if they saw someone like Lux, at best they’d believe she’s unstable or corruptible.

Now that we know there are plenty of mages within, in addition to rich people who demonize magic while being mages themselves, it’s hard not to sympathize with Sylas.

It doesn’t help when you can argue parallels with homophobia.

Iron Rubric1/25/2019, 7:42:33 PM1 votes

Theres also the whole leblanc is playing j4 cause hes actually dead... or they retcon that out?