Viktor, Villain or Hero?

revliledpembroke·7/24/2016, 10:35:25 PM·4 votes·1,897 views

Villain, without a doubt. I have absolutely no understanding how a man given the backstory of "Boohoo, some other scientist stole credit from me twice. Now, I shall purge all "emotional weakness," create machine people, and take over the world with my GLORIOUS REVOLUTION!" You know what heroes do when someone stills the credit for something? They either trick the thief into revealing, publicly, who actually created it, they steal records showing who actually made the project, they make something that won't work (but looks as if it will) to embarrass the thief, or they make something that is clearly the hero's own work in another city where the thief can't possible steal credit.

Heroes do not make machine cults. They don't make death rays. They don't purge emotions that cause weakness (99% of the time when this is said, they mean what everyone else thinks are positive emotions: happiness, love, compassion, mercy, and the sanctity of human life). They don't tell people to "Adapt or be removed" (you know, agree with me or die) or "Submit to my designs" (Usually people are only told to submit if they are unwilling to go along with whatever plan the villain has, but "submit, for it is inevitable").

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Riot revealed that Viktor had found a Reaper artifact during his year of seclusion. Advanced tech that surprised people, thinking flesh is weak, metal is perfection, "machine cult," and does this sound familiar?

How about another group that has replaced bits of themselves with technology? "Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. We are the Borg." Hmmm, Vik is pretty sure that resistance against his ideas is futile. He even thinks that everyone will submit to his plans (sounds like they will be assimilated into them).

Plus, he's a mad scientist (from the town of mad science that uses unethical methods for unethical results) with a Russian accent. How could he not be evil?

37 Comments

Sharjo7/24/2016, 10:56:04 PM6 votes

Seemingly you don't care for the debate, given how eloquently you've put your opinion, but I wanna ramble so whatever.

It's not that simple.

Viktor's a man who was rejected, had his work stolen, his pride shattered, everything he'd worked for taken away from him. It changes a man, but why did Viktor change so severely from one major event? I'd imagine that Viktor's past before he became a scientist wasn't the greatest; living in Zaun is rough and I can imagine him not having the best upbringing. He worked towards bettering his city, bettering himself, and what did it do? Spat in his face every time. I feel like, while we have no information about Viktor's youth, that the point where Piddly pulled the rug out from under him, a man who he likely considered a good friend and colleague, was the last straw.

Viktor pushed for change more aggressively after that. He changed him self radically, and while many feared the man others wholly accepted his ideals. He transformed people in to beings not seen before in Runeterra, and the world's adjusting to the change. Viktor's taken drastic steps to achieve his ultimate goal, although it's a goal that, in the end, has the purpose of benefiting mankind.

Is Viktor a villain? To some he is. To some he isn't. It's all about perspective. At the end of the day Viktor has done bad things for what can be seen as a good outcome, but does that justify his actions?

Viktor's a character of grey. He's a darker shade but he's not completely black. He has stolen to achieve his goals but he's never forced his truth on anyone; he doesn't respect those who reject them but he doesn't fight that rejection itself - he'd rather push forward and leave it behind to wither and die.

The question "Is X a Villain or Hero?" is an inherently flawed one because it's based entirely on human perception, morals, laws and history. Good and evil are human concepts; not rules of the universe. Big picture wise Viktor's pursuing mankind's betterment. Small scale wise he's doing a lot of reprehensible actions. The question should be "How do you view X, given what you know?". For many of League's cast their view is that Viktor's the bad guy. For us readers many think he's a good guy, but such terms aren't useful. They bundle people together and stick 'em in a box. Humans are much more complex than that, and exist as part of a spectrum. The lines of the boxes people put others in to are always blurred even if they don't want to admit it.

Is Viktor a good guy? Maybe.

Is Viktor a bad guy? Maybe.

Who really is Viktor? That's something only he really knows.

At the end of the day Viktor is Viktor, as is any other character, so people should just judge the merits or whatever's going on more broadly and from a more understanding view. When considering who Viktor truly is, look at everything about him, not just the bad and the good, and look at what others think too, as they have reasons to have their points of view.

A human being is never so simple as to just be a hero or villain. Think more broadly and figure out the answer for yourself.

Ok ramble done.

Ebonmaw Dragon7/24/2016, 11:00:50 PM3 votes

{quoted}

Heroes do not make machine cults. They don't make death rays. They don't purge emotions that cause weakness (99% of the time when this is said, they mean what everyone else thinks are positive emotions: happiness, love, compassion, mercy, and the sanctity of human life). They don't tell people to "Adapt or be removed" (you know, agree with me or die) or "Submit to my designs" (Usually people are only told to submit if they are unwilling to go along with whatever plan the villain has, but "submit, for it is inevitable").

  1. Heroes do not make machine cults: Viktor is not the one who made a cult, his followers did it. The term cult may be controvertial, but just because people agree with your ideology, it doesnt mean that you are bad.

  2. They dont make death rays: Rumble, a hero of Bandle City, wanted to create a death ray, something that can be seen in his Judgement. People build weapons to defend themselves, even "heroes" like Jayce, Heimerdinger or Ironman... in fact, Superman has laser rays... and he use them, is that bad?

  3. They dont purge emotions that cause weakness: Viktor did not removed all his emotions, only some of them (the negative ones that cause depression). Due that, he is technically 100% objective... other heroes that deny emotions are Shen. Due his objectivity, he can choose the best path.

  4. As i said in other thread: Those quotes are out of context.

Warlord Dienekes7/24/2016, 11:07:40 PM3 votes

He's a troubled man with a goal. The goal in itself is not good or evil. Creating mechanical bodies would have a lot of benefits and some drawbacks. But I can definitely see how his ideas would gain followers and motivate a man.

That said whether he is evil or not he is the villain depends on how the writers portray him going for those goals. In his base lore he's fine. However I have a feeling Riot wanted to depict him as a grand villain and they failed to actually make him villainous. Because whenever he appears in other lore he becomes a mustache twirling Dr Robotnik style incompetent villain. The original Jayce lore being the prime example, before there was a backlash among his fans.

MavenSong7/24/2016, 10:36:31 PM2 votes

He's neither. He's just a guy whos been through shit and wants to do something meaningful in his life. He isnt forcing people to join his Glorious Evolution (which is a world he sees as ideal) .

Ebonmaw Dragon7/24/2016, 10:42:05 PM2 votes

Nice poll, totally objective.

LordHippoman7/25/2016, 6:27:09 AM2 votes

I do think people get a little overblown in their fan characterization of Viktor being the REAL HERO (Also see Morgana, Katarina), but he's not really...evil? I don't think he's good either, he's just sort of...debatable.

Viktor's whole backstory is basically "This is why humanity sucks." because it's all about how humans have done nothing but push him around and abuse him his entire life. He creates a functioning, sentient robot and some guy just steals all his credit. He basically decides emotions are bad because the guy has never been happy, only machines seem not to hurt him. It's pretty depressing.

After the cyborg-ing, there's that whole Jayce incident, which has been through so many revisions I can barely keep track anymore, but yeah, Viktor did start it. There's really no skirting around it. When he saw something he wanted, and Jayce wasn't willing to peacefully give it to him, he took it by force. That's called theft, (Ironically, exactly what Viktor hates, which kinda begs the question, how much did he lose when he robot-ified himself?).

Everything Viktor does is to try and improve the world, but it's kind of a sketchy definition of "improve" that's all on his vision of humans as these nasty creatures just waiting to stab each other in the back, and wow robots are way better because they don't betray you. How much you agree with that sorta just depends how cynical you are. Good intentions, some pretty shitty ways of going about it. However, at least he's not Malzahar, and he's not taking anybody by force or sacrificing their kids.

His in game quotes get pretty sketchy though. "Adapt or be removed." "THEY ARE OBSOLETE." "Submit to my designs." And that evil cackle when you cast Death Ray, which is about the best sound effect in the game, just by the by.

(okay look i read a little down and it turns out this is basically just a shorter version of sharjo's post aww jeez oh well

fun fact, though, Viktor's character motivation (human who wants to be machine)" is basically the inverse of Orianna's (machine that wants to be human))

Immortal spax7/24/2016, 10:50:32 PM1 votes

I've seen this mentality a lot here on internet.

"X is not a hero, so i a villain"

Take for example Game of Thrones, except Ned Stark and the Ramsay Bolton (the hero and the villain), which other character fits in those 2 category?

SPOILER

Lannisters wants to mantain their glory, Targaryen wants their throne back, in the South they seek revenge, in the north they want to protect the reign, Starks seeks normality ecc...

Same thing on lol, viktor just wants to go for his path, maybe with some company.

revliledpembroke7/24/2016, 10:59:58 PM1 votes

I mean, honestly, what Viktor wants to do is no different than what Dr. Mordin Solus laments has been done to the Protheans/Collectors. No glands, replaced by tech. No soul...replaced by tech.