On Kayle's Armour (and Female Armour Generally)

Camulos··8 votes·3,115 views

The above video by Shadiversity, a YouTube channel which explores medieval combat and it's applications in fantasy, addresses a lot of the concerns which people have with feminine armour overall; but for those who'd prefer to read, here's a summary:

  1. Armour with feminine designs weren't made historically, not because it wouldn't be functional, but because next-to-no women fought in war during this period.
  2. IF female warriors had been more common, it's entirely feasible that armour made to accentuate a feminine form would have been made, as many traits of male anatomy were present in historically accurate armour. These included different fashionable chest-to-waist ratios, pectoral muscles on the breastplate (men had boob-plate), and codpieces (which were basically big metal penises for your armour).
  3. The design of larger mounds on the breast-plate will not have enough of a detrimental effect on the armour's ability to deflect strikes to discount the design; at least, no more so than contours typical, male armour.
  4. Armour-bikinis are a stupid idea though, he has a separate video on how to get the "Barbarian" look with better functionality.

As for KayleKayle's armour specifically, the main issue isn't the feminine design of the armour, but the distinct LACK of armour on her abdomen. However, this can easily be explained away with the assumption that the cloth section his a type of fantasy, skin-tight gambeson. While not AS effective as plate, gambeson is an effective armour option if you're looking to trim down the weight of your armour, about as effective as leather armour overall. Gambeson is Shad's recommended armour of choice for the typical "Adventurer" character, but here it can be argued that Kayle's trying to make it easier to fly.

Now does this mean that all female armour sets are made with functionality in mind and not just to use sexual appeal to market the character? Of course not. Gotta make the money to keep papa Tencent happy. However, I've seen a lot of people look down on feminine armour designs out of a misguided view on functionality, so here we are.

28 Comments

GreenKnight6 votes

Riot went the safe route with it's stereotypical fantasy armament. Stupid design.

Camulos4 votes

I agree that it's more of a typical fantasy design. However, it accurately conveys Kayle's traits as a character. Light (both in weight and in brightness) but strong, feminine and knightly. In that sense, it does its job and does it well.

Baval8 votes

{quoted}

I agree that it's more of a typical fantasy design. However, it accurately conveys Kayle's traits as a character. Light (both in weight and in brightness) but strong, feminine and knightly. In that sense, it does its job and does it well.

Feminine was never one of Kayles traits. The fact she was female was irrelevant. Her design was made intentionally ambiguous and then skins were made to take off her helmet for a female look. Her helmet is specifically meant to hide her femininity.

kingDeDeDarius3 votes

She is feminine, and as with anyone and everyone, your sex/ binary gender IS part of your character and one defining trait out of many

Baval3 votes

{quoted}

She is feminine, and as with anyone and everyone, your sex/ binary gender IS part of your character and one defining trait out of many

shes as feminine and it informs her character exactly as much as Samus.

And in case i have to remind you, people though Samus was a guy.

and they did kayle too http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=214911 http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3330843 https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/954437-league-of-legends/56624660

Warlord Dienekes5 votes

Holy shit I am sick and tired of having to disprove this guy on this forum.

As I did here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/wxIVYlJ0-get-your-facts-straight-already

And here https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/uMIZPRf9-boob-plate-isnt-a-problem-of-functionality-change-my-mind

I mean I like Shad. He has a love of medieval history (as everyone should) but he’s not a historian, or even a recreator. And what’s more I doubt has ever worn armor or studied it as much as he has his castles (by the by his castle videos are actually really good).

At this point I may as well just make a thread just so it’s easier for me to link to rather than having to search through my comments.

Anyway, yeah, Kayle’s armor is bad as armor.

Camulos1 votes

I mean, percussive weaponry like war-hammers, maces or flails are going to screw someone in full plate regardless of the features that armour has, that's the point of using a blunt, heavy-impact weapon. The issue there is that a lot of the armour on female fantasy characters appears to be skin-tight. Armour is meant to act a bit like the crumple-zones on a car, it takes the force and malforms if necessary so that your rib-cage doesn't, but this requires padding under the armour or for the armour to bulge over the protected area.

It seems your problem is less with feminine armour and more with skin-tight armour, and I agree, I think there should be more visible padding or at least for the armour to visibly convex above the area it's meant to protect.

However, this is fantasy, and there are 101 reasons you could make up to explain why it doesn't on Kayle.

Warlord Dienekes3 votes

No, having been hit by a mace while wearing armor. You feel it worse than you would a sword, but still it's not like that will suddenly completely kill you. My arm got a bruise. It stung a bit. I was fine. But that's because my armor is designed correctly so weapons glide off and away from my body.

Because that's how armor works. Like maybe if it directly hit on the center of your neck so there's no room for the weapon to glide or something. Yeah, that might be fatal. But accounts of duels between men in full armor with pollaxes describes them as smacking each other around until the armor itself is warped, and the men within are still fighting. Armor is awesome. It isn't until you get things like lances and gunshots where the chance of penetration becomes more likely than not.

You are right, it does require padding. But Shad is also wrong in his portrayal of what kind of muscle cuirass was used in ancient Greek warfare, the function of a codpiece, and why armor is shaped the way it's shaped.

It is fantasy, and sure, you could make some nonsense answer involving magic that specifically works the way to make any design functional. That's usually bad fantasy, but eh, we all have our guilty pleasures (Belgariad for me).

My opposition is using a youtube video of someone who isn't an academic or specialist or recreator or anyone other than a guy who likes to make youtube videos as a point of proof. Even, when I say, he's better than most. Go to actual historians and read what they have to say about armor design. Hell, I've done it for you twice. His argument is nonsense.

Camulos1 votes

I used this video because there are no readily available or easy to find videos by academics on the topic, and I wasn't going to link scholarly articles because they likely don't cover this specific topic and it's unlikely that anyone here would read them even if they did. The only YouTuber I know of who has practical experience with armour and weaponry is Skallagrim, who hasn't touched the topic. I used the video because it brought the point forward and despite not being a professional historian, Shad knows his shit.

Now I agree that Kayle's armour specifically isn't great as functional armour, that point is perfectly valid. Her armour was clearly designed more as an expression of character than a battle-ready set that could be translated to real-life, and has a reliance on in-game explanation to make it work. However, I don't think that this completely negates the concept of armour with a feminine form to it as a concept, I don't see how having mounds on the breast-plate would be so dangerous that no one should ever even think of attempting it.

If you can provide me with a video of someone taking a hammer or mace to a decently-made, feminine breast-plate and it crumpling like tissue-paper, I'll gladly let the matter die.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

I mean the development of the physics of armor and the peascod should kind of be convincing enough as it was developed to deal with mass weapons and lances. Which I already detailed in brief in one of those links.

But I, of course, cannot give a reliable clip on a broken boobplate. However there is a compromise. It costs around $1500 to get a good custom designed breastplate. You chip in half and I’d gladly test it and record it for both of us. I already have the mace and the poleaxe. Don’t have a horse and lance, admittedly, but I know folks who do.

If you’re actually serious about learning about armor and only want to watch videos. Well you’re cutting off your best sources of information. But Knyght Errant has a better channel for that purpose.

Like I said. Shad is good for being an amateur and his knowledge of castles rivals scholars I know (me for example). But his armor knowledge is secondary.

Stars Shaper3 votes

Armor being functional overall makes sense when it's an important defense. Most of the characters (especially from Targon) that are either magic users or super-human beings use their armor and clothes as a display of power and charisma, like they actually are in a parade, demonstrating what they are. Take a look at Taric for example, he is the errant knight of Targon, the Shield of Valoran and his only armored part are the shoulders.

Baval1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Z7EUuewd,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-18T19:32:45.350+0000)

Armor being functional overall makes sense when it's an important defense. Most of the characters (especially from Targon) use their armor and clothes as a display of power and charisma, like they actually are in a parade, demonstrating what they are. Take a look at Taric for example, he is the errant knight of Targon, the Shield of Valoran and his only armored part are the shoulders.

which was also a redesign, original Taric was fully armored. The only thing he didnt have was a helmet.

https://imgur.com/wcqdL0d

Stars Shaper1 votes

I very well know, originally he was a "Gem Knight" which means a knight with some gems in his armor and weapon, once he got polished in his redesign he got a look that suited more his role and character. The same is happening with the other VGUs. Talking about "Boob Plates" like it's putting a knife in your lungs it's just stupid though.

Warlord Dienekes3 votes

Amusingly Pantheon’s armor is one of the few armors in this game that is almost ok. And Diana’s isn’t horrible for what it is.

It’s really only Leona who has useless nonsense armor, Taric and Zoe mostly just don’t wear any.

Stars Shaper2 votes

Zoe with armor wouldn't make sense at all.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Agreed.

But it does make your point of Targons use of armor kind of off. Since you only really have 1 example. Who was designed way before this aspect stuff was even thought of.

Also doesn’t really make sense in the lore considering it’s made a point that the bodies still die if stabbed.

Stars Shaper2 votes

As I said, the aspects wore that sort of armor as a uniform rather than for it's actual defensive power. Also most of Targon aspects until now have been white weapon fighters except Zoe.

Yeah their bodies can but they are portected by magic, especially Taric.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

And I would ask where you get that information. Because as I said. Only Leona is designed in the way you describe.

Stars Shaper1 votes

It's just an interpretation I give based on how high generals and Lords' armor looked in actual medieval times and the social standing of the Aspects in Targon. Leona and Diana Aspects occupied a similar position in Targon old society, Leona maintained this "status" even now because the Solari are now the de facto ruling faction (at least on Runeterra). The Protector and Twilight (and thus Taric and Zoe) seem less preoccupied with the social/political dispute in Targon and thus also their chosen happen to have a less appariscent outfit.

Apart from Pantheon Leona and Diana weapons (and helm for Pantheon maybe, remember that he is up for a visual update) and Taric magic tattoo (I guess, not sure), all of their armors are more cerimonial than actual protections (this is shown also in Diana lore when she stumbles upon the Lunari ruins).

CHODES AND LOADS2 votes

its a video game u sperg

Sir Saltarin1 votes

Check this comment about this topic, it's really interesting:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/es/c/story-art/uMIZPRf9-boob-plate-isnt-a-problem-of-functionality-change-my-mind?comment=0004

Quoting u/Warlord Dienekes

Linna Excel1 votes

Since she's not a tank or bruiser, should she have any armor at all?

Sir Saltarin5 votes

Because part of her identity was being a full covered heavy armor angel.

Now they have turned her base skin into a Dawnbringer Riven like style which is something that I dont like even though I own and love that skin.

kingDeDeDarius3 votes

That's like asking why have have an armored airplane or helicopter since it's not involved in ground warfare .. like what about arrows and adcs, etc

A Superb Villain3 votes

A valid point; Kayle should be naked!

General Matty1 votes

SHADiversity. lol

Zapzya1 votes

It just looks bad in my opinion. The league of angels joke is actually spot on. If I see an exposed abdomen and armour on the same person, I just think “do you want to be protected or not?”. I don’t fully know how to describe why I dislike it, it just looks tacky.

Axzarious1 votes

This video is a great look at things, and it's nice to see it crop up here.

However, I think the most defining aspect of this that rustles people's Jimmies isn't the current look so much as how it breaks from Kayle's traditional look. They basically pulled a reverse-sejuani with this re-design: Armor was removed that shouldn't have been removed, where Sejuani had armor added that didn't need to be added. It's a prominent break from an aspect of a character that had already been established.

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