LoL Theory: The nature of Kayn’s and Rhaast’s death or why I don’t believe they actually die

Lady Faceless·5/27/2018, 4:37:57 PM·32 votes·15,538 views

2017 was an interesting year for champion releases. We got our love birds, which bring the first real champion-specific interaction between two champions (interactive voicelines and a shared recall), a demigod which can forge himself items wherever he is and a little spell thief, which RGN can be awful to play against. We also got Kayn, which introduced a complete new transformation mechanic for this game and is a champion which lore is actually really intervened in his gameplay.

Kayn, a talented student from the Order of the Shadows, gets the mission to destroy the Blade of Millennia, one of the five remaining Darkin weapon. In his arrogance, he refuses to fulfill the order and takes the weapon for himself instead – and locks himself in a constant battle with Rhaast, the Darkin which was sealed away in the weapon. There is only two ways how this battle can end: Either Rhaast overpowers Kayn and Kayn’s body becomes the Darkin’s vessel or Kayn uses his shadow magic to turn the Blade of Millennia in a no-longer-sentient weapon.

No matter which path is chosen (in-game) – it can only end in the death of the other. However, while the Darkin and Shadow Assassin Form have a clearly winner, I don’t believe the other party is fully gone. And let me explain why.

If Rhaast Wins

If you pick Rhaast, he has a really interesting walk quote. "Kayn weeps in the abyss between oblivions… Idiot." This quote caught my interest. The thing is, Runeterra has a confirmed afterlife and reincarnation cycle. Which is why things like the Black Mist and the Void are so horrible – these forces defy the natural flow of the Universe.

Well, Rhaast overpowered Kayn and turned Kayn’s body into his own vessel. But wouldn’t it mean that Kayn simple died and his soul moved on? Oblivion doesn’t sound like that kind of afterlife Runeterra would have. Especially, since Rhaast is mocking Kayn. Oblivion, in that case, is something even worse than death. As if Kayn can’t die and is stucked between being somehow alive and not to be able to reincarnate.

There is another quote which caught my interested. "Varus, the three of us, um.. Five of us? well.. Together, we will lay waste to this realm!". Back when Kayn was released, I didn’t paid too much attention to this quote. I thought Rhaast was referring to the three Darkins which we know (Aatrox, Varus and him) and when he corrects himself to include the other two ones we still don’t know.

After the new Varus lore I suddenly saw it from a different angle. He first calls them three ‘cause he refers to three souls – himself, Varus and Kayn. Then he sees that Varus also has not only one soul, but even two other souls as well, which he also includes (Kai and Valmar). But it is weird, isn’t it? Rhaast killed Kayn, why he is still includes his existence, his soul?

I think the Varus’ Retribution Serie Part 1 - Heartlight | Part 2 - As We Fall | Part 3 - Retribution gives us an indirect answer.

After reading the comics I never could stop pointing out how Varus actually kept his word and saved Kai (it is still debatable, but Kai is clearly still alive in some form). It always seemed strange to me. Darkins are not demons. To be honest, not even the demons in League are the same thing which we understand as demons in our world. The only reason why Tahm Kench keeps his word and fulfills his bargain ‘cause he waits for the perfect moment to increase the misery to the fullest. Evelynn doesn’t even keep her promise for sexual contact – the moment you touched her, she is allowed to torture you and she doesn’t even think about fulfilling her part of the deal. There is not a single reason why Varus would actually fulfill the deal with Valmar and save Kai. I mean, Varus hates humanity for killing his race and sealing him away in his weapon. Suddenly, after all the time, a mourning human stumbles into your prison with his dying heartlight in his arms and begs you to save him. It would be only logical that Varus would lie and let Kai simple die. Or at least twist the deal in a far more awful direction. While the whole situation is truly not good for Kai or Valmar, but it is still by far better than both could have dared to hope. Both are still alive, they still have each other and they even have some control over their new bodies (less than they wish, but they are not complete exposed to Varus’ influence). So, I repeat my question – why did Varus saved Kai?

The answer is simple – Varus can’t separate the souls from the bodies. He created his current vessel by using both Valmar’s and Kai’s body and even if he would love to simple steal the bodies, he has no ability to destroy the band between the body and soul, even after the bodies are broken down and rebuild into something complete new. Instead Varus tries to overwhelm these both souls by using Valmar’s grief and lust for vengeance.

The same happens if Rhaast wins. He simple overwhelms Kayn soul and makes Kayn’s body to his own. Kayn’s soul is still trapped in this body but without any possibility to reach Rhaast or use his former body. Rhaast maybe can’t get rid of Kayn, but he can make sure that Kayn remains powerless and suffers from his own helplessness.

Another possibility would be that Rhaast is actively hindering Kayn’s soul to move on. Just out of spite. However, I don’t think Rhaast would be that petty if he actually wins the battle, this behavior would fit Varus more. But it is a possibility nevertheless.

If Kayn wins

So, if Kayn wins the battle, you could assume he kills Rhaast and takes the weapon as his own. But I have a reason why I don’t believe that.

So, imagine this. At some point after the Fall of Shurima, the humans used their magic so reckless that they attracted the Darkin. The Darkin War was clearly not in the favor of the humans and brought humanity almost to extinction. It seems that the turning point of the War was the moment our local Deus Ex Machina the Aspects had to interfere like Dinopawz and WAAARGHbobo hinted it.

We know that humanity used the Darkin-infused weapon to win the war. Which seems strange to me? Let us assume the Darkin either have some material or knowledge to forge weapons which by default are more powerful than a human weapon. If it is so, humans could have simple picked up these weapons the dead Darkin or use spies and thieves to steal these.

Instead, the humans do something different. They used their magic to imprison a handful of Darkins into their weapon and used these weapons to fight against them. The humans stand with their back to the wall; they don’t have time for experiments. Why even try such a complicated thing? Simple – a Darkin weapon is a simple normal weapon, but the sealed Darkin makes it actually powerful. However, the seal was not perfect. A Darkin is simple too strong and even if their soul is bound to a weapon, they are still powerful enough to overwhelm an average human being and make a human body to their vessel.

Kayn picks up the Blade of Millennia, so he can wield a powerful weapon. And even after Kayn defeats Rhaast the weapon still holds its power. "With this blade, I am invincible!" But how would be that possible if the power lies in the Darkin, not in the blade itself?

Simple – Kayn doesn’t kill Rhaast, but he actually enhances the seal that keeps the Darkin tied to the weapon. The Blade of Millennia still uses the same power source – Rhaast – but this time without the nasty side effects that Rhaast could bring you.

However, how could have someone like Kayn even have the knowledge to do such a thing? Well, since the Xayah Color Story “Puboe Prison Break” we know that Order of Shadows uses the souls of fallen one’s to strength themselves. It actually would make sense that Kayn could use the Order’s knowledge to improve the seal and turn Rhaast into the weapon, he wants to have. Killing Rhaast would bring Kayn nothing since he would destroy the power source of his weapon and turn it into a normal weapon.

TL;DR: Rhaast has not the ability to separate Kayn’s soul from his body, he simple overwhelms Kayn and takes full control of the body if he wins; (Shadow Assassin) Kayn doesn’t kill Rhaast either, instead he improves the seal that keeps the Darkin bound to the weapon and turns the Darkin weapon that it actually supposed to be a: A weapon which is fueled by the Darkin soul without being able to corrupt his (human) user.

32 Comments

Velzard of Koz5/27/2018, 8:38:55 PM7 votes

There is another quote which caught my interested. "Varus, the three of us, um.. Five of us? well.. Together, we will lay waste to this realm!". Back when Kayn was released, I didn’t paid too much attention to this quote. I thought Rhaast was referring to the three Darkins which we know (Aatrox, Varus and him) and when he corrects himself to include the other two ones we still don’t know.

After the new Varus lore I suddenly saw it from a different angle. He first calls them three ‘cause he refers to three souls – himself, Varus and Kayn. Then he sees that Varus also has not only one soul, but even two other souls as well, which he also includes (Kai and Valmar). But it is weird, isn’t it? Rhaast killed Kayn, why he is still includes his existence, his soul?

No. He means Aatrox, Rhaast, Varus and then includes Kai/Valmar. You cannot compare Kayn's demise to that of Kai/Valmar. Varus didn't overwhelm body of one of the two, he marged them. It was different case and that is why Kai and Valmar are still there inside Varus. But Kayn was fully overwhelmed. While he may be half-lifiving as your theory suggests, this is not relevant to that.

EDIT: Also there are five Darkin, but this line refers to Kai/Valmar because Rhaast stops with the "uhm" for comedical effect and it's a joke. If it was to be fully accurate (or ~~If ~~ unless Rhaast counts with the other two Darkins being imprisoned or dead) it would've been The five of us... Uhm... The seven of us.

GreenLore5/27/2018, 7:19:04 PM3 votes

Overall I agree with your general idea,though for another reason than the ones that you mention and that is simply the fact that it would feel kind of like a wasted potential if Rhaast looses the struggle against kayn,because that way the 5 darkin would never come together again.

However Kayn is the main character out of the 2,so it would feel more natural if he would win in the end.

Because of this I think it is likely that Rhaast would overpower Kayn first and later he'd get defeated and Kayn would be revived.(though the opposite could also be true).

Though after that I'd say it is likely that one of them would stay dead.

Ebonmaw Dragon5/27/2018, 5:37:00 PM2 votes

I dont agree with the theory.

First its the point of "Darkins not being able to separate the soul of the host from their bodies", most of what you said about it, it is based on the quote of Rhaast about the "3 - 5 of us", but as you point out, that is a clear reference to Aatrox, the sister of Varus and the other darkin. When Rhaast wins, he doesnt simply overwhelms Kayn soul... he literally stab and kills Kayn.

The big question about "why did Varus saved Kai?" can be answered as well with what happened there... Kai was the first one who had contact with the Darkin, he was the one who had to be fused with Varus, but that body was damaged, so, Varus used both bodies to create a new one. Or we could theorise that the "Ionian prophecy" about the 2 of them being together forever was stronger than the Darkin it self due the magic of Ionia. Or simply say that, since both of them entered into the pit, he had to fuse with both of them.

In fact, now that i think about it, the question shouldnt be "why did Varus saved Kai?", it should be "Why did Varus pick both of them as host?"... because, as far as i know, Varus is the one that fused the 3 of them... The problem of him not being able to separate them that you mention wouldnt be a problem in first place if he only picked one of them as host.

............

And now the second point.... When Kayn wins:

Before talking about it, lets be clear about one thing, Darkins are not the weapons, they are trapped inside weapons... so, the weapon itself is not a Darkin.

That being said, You assume that the blade itself has no power at all... But that makes no sense, you cant simply trap a living being inside a random item. If they had the power of trapping the darkins inside "anything", they could had trapped them all the darkins inside random common items without power and call it a day... But no, they needed specific items to trap them. Those weapons were not common at all. And those weapons were used by the Darkins themselves as far as i remember, but why would them use those random powerless items if all the power was from them? That is like saying that Cyclops from X-Men would use a laser gun even if he is able to shoot lasers from his eyes... it is pointless. If the Darkins used those weapons, and those weapons were special enough to be used as "jail", it had to be for a good reason.

Also, just saying: The weapon has no traces of the Darkin left when the Shadow Assassin uses it... that means that the Darkin is not there... if he is not there, he died. simple.

ZackTheWaffleMan5/27/2018, 7:07:56 PM2 votes

I really like this. It told me some things I didn't know.

lolipopevelynn5/28/2018, 12:40:59 PM1 votes

I think its ambiguous. Rhasst does stab kayne, but its more of a visual effect. Rhasst needs the body so its not actually destroyed.

Personally what i think is that the soul of a human and darkin simply get swapped in the host body. Kayne soul is sealed but still remains inside the body untill he just fades away. This is whats happening to varus. Eventually the two souls inside him will just fade and pass on. He is waiting for that to happen, but the two of them together prevents it from happening, atleast for now.

In the context of the transformation tho kayne is indeed gone when rhasst takes over and vice versa. Even if his soul remains for a time it will eventually fade away.

BLACK REALM GOD5/29/2018, 3:00:11 AM1 votes

kayn isnt killed. he becomes possessed. rhaast overpowers kayns mind and turns him into a vessel. think venom from spiderman.

DerMangoJoghurt5/27/2018, 5:24:08 PM1 votes

After the new Varus lore I suddenly saw it from a different angle. He first calls them three ‘cause he refers to three souls – himself, Varus and Kayn. Then he sees that Varus also has not only one soul, but even two other souls as well, which he also includes (Kai and Valmar). But it is weird, isn’t it? Rhaast killed Kayn, why he is still includes his existence, his soul?

If Rhaast were to include Kayn it would be six souls (Aatrox, Varus, Kai, Valmar, Rhaast, Kayn), seven if you include whoever Aatrox is possessing. I think he's just referring to the five Darkin.

Otherwise really interesting theory though.

NotaRobot10065/29/2018, 9:46:27 PM1 votes

Here's another point for the "Rhaast didn't die" part: In every one of Shadow Assassin Kayn's lines, there's a whispery echo effect. If you listen carefully, that echo is a heck of a lot deeper than Kayn's voice. I'm pretty sure it's Rhaast.

rtbf2256182415/27/2018, 10:56:22 PM1 votes

Except when Kayn overpowered Rhaast, he quite literally says" The Darkin is gone, our enemies remain."

I mean to be honest, i can never take the lore of these two retards seriously as it's nothing more but a comic-relief measuring his dick against an overly tryhard-edgy kid. Kayn's propably referring to oblivion without much thought into it.

And yes, i know "They're just trying to intimidate each other." which would be fine if they didn't continue their stupid attitude after winning.

One of Rhaast's quotes is "Carnage, havoc, mayhem. Which to wreak first?" which are all almost literally words with the same meaning. They're both too stuck up in their egos to think before talking. Needless to say, for a darkin character, they're both extremely disappointing in terms of how serious the issue with them is.

Gold Light5/28/2018, 2:33:54 AM1 votes

This is an interesting theory, however I do have to argue somewhat with the point of death, the afterlife, and reincarnation. You linked to a rioter quote talking about Illaoi, however that post stated something closer to these things being "Illaoi's truth,' ie her faith and religion. Other characters, like Aurelion Sol, tease that even Illaoi doesn't truly see the big picture of what Nagakabouros REALLY is, so I would take her preaching with a grain of salt.

Furthermore, we know that 'oblivion' can exist for those who die. In the Rise of the Ascended trailer, Nasus says the following: "First, Azir's mind, then his body, are snatched back from oblivion." In the end, the afterlife in League is still kind of a vague concept, especially with the possibility Kayle and Morgana might still be connected to it somehow?

Potato Doc5/28/2018, 4:31:06 AM1 votes

I always assumed this was the case, seemed a bit obvious to me that it worked like that.