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Long Thoughts About the Upcoming Battlecast Illaoi

brahua··8 votes·3,107 views

I wondered if this would be long when I finished writing it, and it is. In this post, I talk about why Battlecast Illaoi is a great choice and the changes to the concept that I feel will best suit her.

Well firstly I would like to say I’m so pleased that Battlecast has won. Reading the forums and Reddit gave the impression it wouldn’t win, that Adventurer was the darling. My guess was that Deep Space would win but I hoped that the silent, and seemingly unfindable majority would make Battlecast take the day.

When the vote first popped up I realized that Battlecast Illaoi was the last predictable thing I was looking forward to in the game, except I’d forgotten I’d wanted it and didn’t suspect it’d be coming any time. I’ve been a hipster-ish contrarian in my League time and always picked (to my mind) niche champs. Sion, Taric, Yorick, Galio, Urgot. One by one they’ve gotten reworked. And I greatly enjoy the new and improved versions without a doubt, but it’s like, “well they’re here now, aside from new champs this 4 year period of general anticipation and excitement is closed.” But BC Illaoi added itself to the list. And wait--- I just remembered that mysterious manta-shaped champion that’s been teased multiple times. Ok I guess we’re still on the anticipation train, but still, fewer passengers on board now.

The detractors are saying it’s lame, unoriginal, “yay another Battlecast skin.” If you’re burnt out on futuristic/robotic stuff, well I commiserate, me too, and maybe the timing was wrong for another such skin, but Riot presented the opportunity so I voted to take it (and nearly 3 million others did too). If not, it would probably be 2+ years until she got another shot at of these 3 being made. But for those harping on Battlecast specifically (and your disdain wounds me), consider that Battlecast only has 7 skins and hasn’t seen a new one in 3 years (not counting the glorious Urgot revision). In that time we’ve seen the unguessed-at proliferation of Super Galaxy, with 7 skins, and PROJECT with 8. These skins have come in batches a few times and I can bet there will be plenty more before the next BC ones. Mecha has been similarly small but even it has seen new additions comparatively recently.

Now I enjoy all these skin themes, but Battlecast has always been a favourite and is the best option for Illaoi. It fits with her all-out offense playstyle, jumping and smashing down on enemies. I still think the ult is the best, like cathartic almost, expression of rage-fuelled destruction in the game, it’s so satisfying. And Battlecast is all about that, the don’t-look-back all-out offense. PROJECT is too sleek and more about form. Super Galaxy is a just a touch too light and fun, if she even qualifies (lacking duality in her design, unless the tentacles are the other part). Mecha might have worked but it’s not quite for humans.

“Ahh but neither is Battlecast,” you might say. Well I have mixed, branching thoughts on this. Lore-wise, I don’t really take issue with this choice. Did Viktor not make himself fully machine (I guess twice in 2 different ways lol) with his Creator version? And Urgot started out at least partially human, so there’s plenty enough precedent.

These things being said, I do think there’s room for the skin to be improved to reach its full potential. I didn’t realize this until now and feel a bit embarrassed to admit but I’m willing to write a lot about what I think the skin should and shouldn’t be. I will at least write about it now, and hopefully other users or a Rioter themselves would respond.

Firstly, I think that Illaoi should be a full-metal construct. On the day of the original vote post 2 weeks ago, I said something like I would anticipate an updated voiceover if she were to go full-machine, however, and that would thus make the skin legendary tier. While I still think that would be nice, I get that Riot doesn’t want to make a legendary her first post-release skin, and is probably reserving that for the jokey Dunkmaster or Car Salesperson skins.

I’ve changed my thoughts on this. I believe the base voiceover is the main (and likely only?) reason she is being classed as a Battlecast renegade, and while that’s still a hang-up, I would still prefer full-metal over better-meshing-with-current-voiceover renegade. To go on a bit of a tangent, I should note that skin lore is more in-depth than people, including myself, realize. For instance, the new PROJECT skins reveal some new developments about factions within that universe. Of course, the only way I’m aware of this existing is PROJECT Vayne’s new lines. As far as I know Riot doesn’t have any other way for people to learn about this stuff, it’s just up-in-the-air hinted-at interactions that you can’t read about, or learn about through any other way. But the main point is that it is there, and is the basis for whatever developments may come from it. And Riot has a long way to go at that, if they even go.

So from that, my next point is that the skin lore is a bit loosy-goosy, and that a lot of it can be fill-in-the-blanks head-canon, which is what I will apply here. In my case for fully Battlecast Illaoi and not half-human renegade, it is easier for me to believe (and more consistent with what Battlecast lore exists) that Viktor, in all his meticulous genius, basically took Illaoi apart as he does all BC subjects, and in rebuilding her, insidiously coded her to believe that she was heralding her god instead of the machine revolution, than it is for me to believe that Illaoi somehow broke free from her augmentation process or her role as a mechanic as the concept art would suggest or whatever and rebel against him, only half-changed. Illaoi in her current form or in this universe doesn’t strike me as so mechanically minded to rebel and reprogram Battlecast stuff on her own, she’s happy being a conduit for greater power I feel, whether it be Viktor or Nagakaborous. Others have also pointed out that the Battlecast skins exist in a universe where Viktor has triumphed in his work and uses the constructs to siege those who resist. Of course that’s not true, since there have been references to opposition. Was Full Metal supposed to be? PROJECT is, apparently (see what might be a throwaway reference in PROJECT: Katarina). Although as I said, PROJECT has its own internal strife, but it would be nice for Battlecast to be unified. (Also, if PROJECT and Battlecast exist together, and Illaoi is a renegade, wouldn’t she seek out PROJECT to complete her augmentation?)

This all being said, I wouldn’t be upset if she remains a renegade if these points haven’t swayed you. I would hope someone makes a good case for it and I’d read it if it’s shared.

There’s just one last thing I would have to say about the concept, if no other points are taken here. Please do not go with the robot hands and arms. I understand the need for adding uniqueness to a long-overdue skin where it’s feasible to add it, but in this case less change is better.

We already have a great visual guide for Battlecast tentacles, with Vel’Koz! It really is ready-made, as far as concepting goes. The segmented gunmetal plates is the best look for the tentacles. I had earlier said maybe their tips could have drillbits on them, for when they spawn up from the ground, but by and large I think they could look fairly similar. Change the shape and size to fit the normal tentacles of course, maybe change the colour schemes a bit, tweak that stuff however, but keep the basic shape. I mentioned a few weeks ago that for her E, the spirit could have colours similar to Creator Viktor’s recall schematics, and maybe, if wanted, the tentacles could be holographic red-orange-yellow tentacles like that, but I don’t think that would be true to Battlecast, plus it might look too PROJECT-y.

For me, robot hand is the wrong look for her. The concept looks a bit too cartoon-villain-y and even it were changed to be like some kind of thick, hefty, claw-like thing, it still wouldn’t be the best option. Viktor himself says “function over form,” and a robot arm is needlessly complicated. And even as a renegade I would think Illaoi would agree, how would she have been first drawn to the Battlecast stuff otherwise? Plus, as I say, I don’t think she’s too mechanically minded in any universe, so her having these things which look more complicated to build than a good old tentacle seems wrong. It also suggests, for gameplay readability, that the hand-portion of the tentacle might hurt more than the arm, which would be misleading. Also, Classic Viktor has a flimsy-looking robot arm, but Creator doesn’t. Basically I’ll use any point I can think of to make the case for true Battlecast tentacles.

So in summation, when people play with a skin from a skin line, I think it’s reasonable to expect a certain thematic continuity with that skin line, especially with Riot’s current production value. I say 'current' because Battlecast Xerath exists and it basically looks like from before the days of established skin universe concepts (how I would love for that skin to be re-released, among others). Mecha Zero Sion is against the other mechs, and PROJECT Vayne is against some other PROJECT skins. But aside from their voiceovers you wouldn’t know it. They look like they belong in the main group. I believe Illaoi, should, ideally, look like a fully-transformed champ like Creator Viktor and his BC army. Have some lore on her release page say something like she’s programmed to believe she’s still herself or something which justifies the voiceover. And if you can’t be swayed on these points, or others make better arguments, then that’s fine.

But for the love of Nagakabouros, do not use the robot hands and arms.

Thank you for reading.

26 Comments

Riotnerp11867 votes

Oh man, you're hitting on some interesting topics. We had our first planning session today and the voice processing was widely discussed. Hopefully, you'll follow the development along so you get some insight into these exact discussions we have here

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}

Oh man, you're hitting on some interesting topics. We had our first planning session today and the voice processing was widely discussed. Hopefully, you'll follow the development along so you get some insight into these exact discussions we have here

While you're at it, thoughts on the giant robot head? That's the part of the art that's most problematic for me -- I get that she carries an idol in her normal art, but it just feels weird for her to carry around a robot head with tentacles. I can't quite explain WHY, but that was the biggest dealbreaker for me.

brahua1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=YmkcnJQ2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-11-21T13:47:35.727+0000)

While you're at it, thoughts on the giant robot head? That's the part of the art that's most problematic for me -- I get that she carries an idol in her normal art, but it just feels weird for her to carry around a robot head with tentacles. I can't quite explain WHY, but that was the biggest dealbreaker for me.

Well I’m not Nerp1186 but I know that they said it’s all very open to iteration. As rough concepts, I think they are just meant to inspire images of what the skins could be.

I don’t really have strong feelings either way for the concept idol. It looks really awesome as Battlecast art but seeing as it looks torn off a BC body I’m not sure it’s designed to be smashed into things and the ground repeatedly, and it already looks to be in rough shape. I suppose you could say there are sensors in the head that help the tentacles lock on to a target, and if the head is up for a continued beating, then that’s fine because the severed head is also a symbol of renegade’s resistance. However, I would wonder if those sensors could be in a more durable piece of BC hardware. If BC Illaoi goes full-Viktor, then I definitely think it should be a compact ball, maybe with a BC faceplate, but just as a design.

My hang-up is that the idol has to be able to spawn a tentacle with her Q and I think the concept’s head design is too rigid to make that happen. I think a good design for the idol is seen with Battlecast Kog’maw’s back, which has segmented metal plates that coil in his recall. That design of coiled plates could easily unfurl to make a Battlecast tentacle (not a robot hand one, which is even harder to imagine spawning from any idol with her Q).

Anu3isII2 votes

I came with with some possible versions of the story:

  1. If she really is a rebel, she should have fought against many robots, and take parts of them to study. She eventually managed to reprogram one of them. These robots might have regenerative systems, and she made it so that it creates only robotic arms (the tentacles) from the ground.

She probably feared that simply remaking the robot and improving it won't be enough in this war, so she decided to transform the battlefield into her own playground, and to carry only its head, the main computer, in it. It is also cool that she in a way fights fire with fire.

  1. Similar to her current lore, she finds a diety that she bows to, and she carries its idol. Instead of creating the robot arms, she ressurects robots from beneath the ground to fight for her. Of course, this would happen in an extremely futuristic world, where losses have been huge on both sides.

In this version it is possible that she actually fights for the robots, but I don't know. She may be tricked into believing this god, who actually uses her to ressurect its servants, which may be against her goal.

And she reminds me of Necrons from Warhammer 40k. This robotic alien race is slowly awakened, and their Lord, or Headmaster (sorry for the bad pun) has the role to bring them back. She most probably found its head in some pile of junk, and decided to repair it, resulting into a probable ressurection of an entire generation of machines long forgotten in her era.

Hope these possibilities don't seem that extreme!

brahua1 votes

{quoted}

I came with with some possible versions of the story:

  1. If she really is a rebel, she should have fought against many robots, and take parts of them to study. She eventually managed to reprogram one of them. These robots might have regenerative systems, and she made it so that it creates only robotic arms (the tentacles) from the ground.

She probably feared that simply remaking the robot and improving it won't be enough in this war, so she decided to transform the battlefield into her own playground, and to carry only its head, the main computer, in it. It is also cool that she in a way fights fire with fire.

  1. Similar to her current lore, she finds a diety that she bows to, and she carries its idol. Instead of creating the robot arms, she ressurects robots from beneath the ground to fight for her. Of course, this would happen in an extremely futuristic world, where losses have been huge on both sides.

In this version it is possible that she actually fights for the robots, but I don't know. She may be tricked into believing this god, who actually uses her to ressurect its servants, which may be against her goal.

And she reminds me of Necrons from Warhammer 40k. This robotic alien race is slowly awakened, and their Lord, or Headmaster (sorry for the bad pun) has the role to bring them back. She most probably found its head in some pile of junk, and decided to repair it, resulting into a probable ressurection of an entire generation of machines long forgotten in her era.

Hope these possibilities don't seem that extreme!

I appreciate this response, this is the kind of speculative lore-explaining I like. It’s a very interesting idea to make Nagakabouros a different kind of god, some long-lost ancient AI that presents itself as some kind of all-powerful being. Maybe, if it’s got some kind of conscience, it’s warning her against a Glorious Revolution type of future, which resulted in mass war in its own time. With her wielding it, it seeks to stop Vikky.

I like it. I can feel myself softening towards a renegade Illaoi, at least with this explanation. I’m not sure if the BC universe exists so far in the future that enough time has passed for there to be old buried machines and stuff, but something along those lines could work. Maybe her god is a rogue AI that gained sentience (although usually in these scenarios they don’t decide humans are good) or was reprogrammed by Viktor’s enemies (wouldn’t be the first time someone had meddled with his work)(but maybe a first for his BC-era work). If they go with any of these options, hopefully they’re touched upon.

To not flood my thread with a bunch of response posts by me, I’ll address other points here. I’ve read more today about reactions and I think I would conclude from my own experience most people are against the robot arms, if they liked BC or not, so hopefully the Rioters are seeing that as well haha.

And I would definitely watch a stream and comment and stuff if that’s available. I understand if you don’t want to do that, as it might draw a few disgruntled people who don’t like BC (talk about an annual refresher for me that vocal minorities are real), but I think it would be awesome to get any kind of in-the-making real-time video or a-few-hours-after video. I could probably be relied upon to tote out my suggestions and thoughts if they’d be welcome.

Riotnerp11861 votes

I think the concept artist really likes the idea but needs to explore it more

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}

I think the concept artist really likes the idea but needs to explore it more

Totally fair. I'm all for seeing some other explorations -- that one just didn't grab me. :)

SonicÐeHedgedawg1 votes

A giant remote control!

Ricje1 votes

{quoted}

Oh man, you're hitting on some interesting topics. We had our first planning session today and the voice processing was widely discussed. Hopefully, you'll follow the development along so you get some insight into these exact discussions we have here

So erm.. Can we expect Twitch streams from the artists in charge of the skin showing how they're turning a concept into a skin?

Riotnerp11869 votes

Would you watch it? I've talked with the team about doing this and they are open to it

Forsaken12 votes

I'd watch itTwitch

Ricje2 votes

{quoted}

Would you watch it? I've talked with the team about doing this and they are open to it

I would yes. If I know before hand that you're streaming and the time is suitable (as I live in the Netherlands which is 6-9 hours ahead of EST-PST) I would definitely watch it.

I'm just one person though so if there's not enough interest in it then having Youtube videos of you guys working on the skin, splash etcetera would be a great alternative. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

theArtifacts4 votes

I would also watch it.

patmax174 votes

Not OP, but I'm definitely interested in exploratory phase of visual character design. I probably would not watch a stream (I really don't have much time since I have a full time job and a little daughter <3), but I'm definitely interested in seeing the creative process behind the skin, the design choices that were explored and rejected, and the reasons for them :D (I love the "Champion Insights" dev blogs, especially when they explain how a character came to be, what iterations it went through and why, and all the little detail in their design that have a story behind them)

DwarvenGiant1 votes

I love these stuff! Would watch! :o

Valor Bot1 votes

YES PLEASE. As someone whose dream it is to work at Riot as an artist I’d definitely tune into this stream.

Star Guardían2 votes

In term of watching it live, probably not (I don't even watch my fave streamers live due to time). But VODs? Hell yeah!

VelvetCrotch1 votes

Since I am a noobie in concept creation and design, OF COURSE I WOULD WATCH IT! :3

brahua1 votes

{quoted}

Oh man, you're hitting on some interesting topics. We had our first planning session today and the voice processing was widely discussed. Hopefully, you'll follow the development along so you get some insight into these exact discussions we have here

I’m very appreciative that you took the time to read my post! I was wondering when would be the best time to post and hearing that you guys have started discussions, I guess I wasn’t too soon haha. Regarding voice processing, a full BC Illaoi would definitely have it 100%, and renegade BC would have anywhere from 0-50%, I think? From 1%+ it would signify that she was fighting to also maintain her own humanity. I suppose you guys already talked about all that but you mentioning it makes me realize I didn’t in my post.

I’m glad to have been heard by a Rioter. And I will definitely, definitely be following all the updates to see the rationale behind the choices!

EROTIC RAID BOSS5 votes

I can't agree with you that she should go full metal. Her model was the whole appeal of the concept, while her tentacles are the weak point that probably need some iteration

brahua1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=YmkcnJQ2,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-21T13:20:18.281+0000)

I can't agree with you that she should go full metal. Her model was the whole appeal of the concept, while her tentacles are the weak point that probably need some iteration

I hear and appreciate your point, and reading across all these forums I guess we’ll not reach a point where everyone likes the final product. I think full BC works with a simple skin lore note, as her being a renegade and talking about Nagakabouros and his power whilst using these mechanical implements seems a bit of a clash. It’s not as much of an issue for the other non-legendary BC skins because those champion voiceovers are shorter and that helps it work. But with minutes upon minutes of Illaoi and her love for Big N it feels a bit disjointed for the BC narrative. Unless you could say her god animates those metal tentacles for her, in which case I think too many questions open up about why she’d use that stuff to begin with, and could Nagakabouros override the other BC machines, etc. I’m far down the rabbit hole of trivial musings, I know. I’m willing and perhaps hoping, in the event of renegade being the route they go, to be convinced that it’s the right choice.

So I wouldn’t necessarily mind renegade Illaoi, and were I on the development team I would use that concession to advocate for actual tentacles haha. It’s a tricky reality that Battlecast won for various reasons; I love the general concept of BC and would like to see another addition, and I’ve read some people who love the robot arms concept, as well as the idol. And I’ve seen enough separate posts about her concept art’s “cleavage window” to believe that not everyone was joking about that being the only winning feature for their vote. I guess we'll have to wait and see, and comment where we can.

Daimao1 votes

Illaoi's model is what we really voted on for the skin. Battlecast had the best looking Illaoi. That's what it ultimately boiled down to.

The robot hand needs to go. Battlecast Vel'Koz's tentacles should be a source of inspiration. Segmented and armored tentacles. They can extend and retract mechanically as they go dormant/active. I think their hands might be tied with regards to it not being a Mythic skin, though.

SonicÐeHedgedawg3 votes

I'm just really glad that Deep Space didn't win.

It's not a bad skin by any stretch, but, right now, Illaoi's ONLY SKIN is kind-of Eldritch/deep space themed, so I wanted something more clearly distinct. Adventurer was my vote, but I can easily see why it didn't win as well: of the 3 it was the most similar to her base colour scheme in both outfit colour and tentacle colour, and while I think it would make a fabulous skin, it would probably be best for AFTER she already has more than one skin otherwise you're choosing between void Illaoi, or two interpretations of beige and green

brahua1 votes

{quoted}

I'm just really glad that Deep Space didn't win.

It's not a bad skin by any stretch, but, right now, Illaoi's ONLY SKIN is kind-of Eldritch/deep space themed, so I wanted something more clearly distinct. Adventurer was my vote, but I can easily see why it didn't win as well: of the 3 it was the most similar to her base colour scheme in both outfit colour and tentacle colour, and while I think it would make a fabulous skin, it would probably be best for AFTER she already has more than one skin otherwise you're choosing between void Illaoi, or two interpretations of beige and green

I agree, I certainly don’t hate any of the concepts, but the nature of Illaoi and her history make it hard to please people. Certainly even after the result I’ve read enough hate on Battlecast to make me shake my head in sorrow. I appreciate the case against all the skins offered: BC shares a general aesthetic thought too common recently (but is the most different from base and VB), ADV is too close (at least, as concepted) to her base and thus too soon to make, and DS is kind of like VB in that she’s once again under the thrall of some alien entity, even though it does look creepy-cool.

To ramble a bit in the case of VB and DS, being a herald of a greater power is her theme (which is why I think full BC fits her better than renegade), I think the skins will only differ as to how much she is willing/consenting to be that power’s conduit. Although with Adventurer I’d surmise she is fully in control of whatever that idol is.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

Illaoi's ONLY SKIN is kind-of Eldritch/deep space themed,

Illaoi's entire concept is Eldritch/Deep Space themed at its core.

Shatter the Sun1 votes

Yea, no... I still wanted deep space. Battlecast feels so wrong on so many levels and IMO just doesnt fit illaoi in any way. Adventurer was still the worst but every time I look at battlecast tentacle hands I cringe at how awkward and goofy they look and how great deep space oozing tentacles would look as they slammed, peeling off the ground.

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