Better Female Champions. NOW.

Velivolo·Nov 19, 2018·6 votes·2,362 views

League's pool of female champions is lacking SORELY in diversity. There are disgustingly basic needs in the roster (Like: a female black champion, an actual crone, or more females who are truly monsters). To my horror, we're getting Neeko instead.

What happened to champions like Rek'Sai, Kalista, and Illaoi? Those were amazing, diverse champs that I was wholeheartedly excited for. When I saw Neeko in a Youtube thumbnail, I thought she was some Xayah fanart. She's that fucking boring. She has the same eyes, albeit 20x too big. She's just another cute girl character when we literally didn't need one, all but a handful of League's girls are oozing sex appeal.

Riot, you're letting your female playerbase down in unforgivable ways. I've been following your scandals regarding the treatment of female employees, and I, personally, am tremendously let down. To me, Neeko is simple proof that you aren't giving diverse voices the chance to shine, and are listening to the same good ol' boys over and over.

If you value your female playerbase, you will take Neeko back to the drawing board right now. If not.... Well, we've heard what you have to say. Guess I won't be seeing you on the rift.

59 Comments

Moody PNov 19, 201815 votes

muh diversity

CetriNov 19, 20181 votes

Wow! What an original comment! Truly the insight we were all lacking.

Rathar DashingNov 19, 20182 votes

Wow! What original sarcasm! You must be a blast at parties with your witty remarks.

CetriNov 19, 20181 votes

I get complimented on my shade-throwing ability a lot, thanks!

RJay123Nov 19, 201813 votes

When people want to force their ideas down other people’s throats... you get this. Let them make whoever they want. It’s their stories, their characters. If you have a problem with it, play a different game, make your own game, or work for Riot so that you can have your characters in there too. Stop complaining just because you don’t like what writers are writing or what designers are designing. They’re never going to make everyone happy so they’ll just create what makes them happy and proud of their work, and if you have a problem with that, then that’s not their problem. They’re not gonna do what you want them to do just because you said so. Stop lording over creators like you own their ideas and their creations and characters

boricCentaur1Nov 19, 201811 votes

Diversity is boring limits creativity of the creator if you force it and that leads to unimaginative characters who the creator probably does not want to make. Riot does not force the champion designers to make champions the designers come up with it on there own and when writers and designers are forced to create disversity it leads to bad characters that nobody likes that is not my opinion that is a fact.

LunSeiSleideeNov 19, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Diversity is boring limits creativity of the creator if you force it and that leads to unimaginative characters who the creator probably does not want to make. Riot does not force the champion designers to make champions the designers come up with it on there own and when writers and designers are forced to create disversity it leads to bad characters that nobody likes that is not my opinion that is a fact.

The fact that DIVERSITY limits CREATIVITY is like the silliest oxymoron....

RalanrNov 19, 20189 votes

It kinda does at times, especially if it’s forced diversity.

Take a look at the old superfriends cartoon show. Yeah it had diverse characters, but it really forced it in somewhat offensive ways.

LunSeiSleideeNov 19, 20182 votes

{quoted}

It kinda does at times, especially if it’s forced diversity.

Take a look at the old superfriends cartoon show. Yeah it had diverse characters, but it really forced it in somewhat offensive ways.

Here's how I see the "forcing diversity" issue.

It's a non issue.

And here's why: if you make 100+ characters in a videogame and you STILL need 90% of them to be white, that's not forcing diversity to ask for something different, because it's ONE HUNDRED CHARACTERS.

If you make... I didn't count..... 50+ (?) female characters in a videogame and 95% of them are hot chicks that look so similar you can sometimes confuse one with the other, well, then maybe you aren't much of an author if hot samefaced girl is the only design you come up with..... after having made dozens of them already.

RalanrNov 19, 20187 votes

Except when it comes to diversity, the question being asked isn't “how many white guys do we need?” The question is “how many non white characters do we need to be diverse?”

boricCentaur1Nov 19, 20187 votes

{quoted}

The fact that DIVERSITY limits CREATIVITY is like the silliest oxymoron....

Umm can you read the rest of what I wrote since my post was about forced diversity and that does limit creativity since you're focing the creators to do somthing they would of not done otherwise. If you disagree with me then good do it but don't be disingenuous and lie.

LunSeiSleideeNov 19, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Umm can you read the rest of what I wrote since my post was about forced diversity and that does limit creativity since you're focing the creators to do somthing they would of not done otherwise. If you disagree with me then good do it but don't be disingenuous and lie.

If you think making a character black or old or in any way diverse is "limiting creativity"..... it's only because your own creativity is very limited.

Heck you could've just made Neeko look African. Same identical character, but black anime moe girl instead of white moe girl.

Diversity isn't even hard.

VelivoloNov 19, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Heck you could've just made Neeko look African. Same identical character, but black anime moe girl instead of white moe girl.

Diversity isn't even hard.

I LITERALLY thought the same exact thing! Neeko could have been a woman of color, easily. It would change literally nothing about her but her skin tone, and I honestly think her current palette could look great on a darker tone, so no change necessary there. Done. We added another waifu, plus we made an offering to keep those evil SJW's at bay. Win win???

zolikingNov 19, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Neeko could have been a woman of color, easily. It would change literally nothing about her but her skin tone,

So it's fine either way, therefore them not having done that is a problem! Solid logic.

LunSeiSleideeNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I LITERALLY thought the same exact thing! Neeko could have been a woman of color, easily. It would change literally nothing about her but her skin tone, and I honestly think her current palette could look great on a darker tone, so no change necessary there. Done. We added another waifu, plus we made an offering to keep those evil SJW's at bay. Win win???

To think like that, you need to think like a person who respects others (other genders, other races....). Riot has clearly shown they're not that.

Rathar DashingNov 19, 20183 votes

To think like that, you need a person who's so incredibly focused on race that it's all they see in a person.

LunSeiSleideeNov 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WrV6acJl,comment-id=0002000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2018-11-19T23:09:20.282+0000)

To think like that, you need a person who's so incredibly focused on race that it's all they see in a person.

So you think the only options are

make everyone white
make everyone COMPLETELY focused about the fact they're not white

...?

That's a really racist way of thinking. Have you ever thought of option three,

making characters of different races but their race is not what completely defines them.

White characters are not defined by being white. Why would a black character be defined by being black?

It takes a racist to think that you either make white characters, or make characters defined by not being white.

Rathar DashingNov 20, 20181 votes

Nice strawman.

AbiwonKenabiNov 20, 20182 votes

Her skin is like...pink and green. Hell, her Winter skin makes her skin blue! She's not human.

Commodore CogNov 19, 20184 votes

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2kx085/i_want_an_official_statement_from_riot_admitting/

If they made her look African there would be complaints that she was a ditsy tribal stereotype like the complaints against Nidalee.

"Diversity" is hard because you need to be sure not an ounce of what you're creating could even vaguely be construed as sexist/racist/ableist

LunSeiSleideeNov 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Commodore Cog,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WrV6acJl,comment-id=00020000000100000001,timestamp=2018-11-19T20:28:14.120+0000)

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2kx085/i_want_an_official_statement_from_riot_admitting/

If they made her look African there would be complaints that she was a ditsy tribal stereotype like the complaints against Nidalee.

"Diversity" is hard because you need to be sure not an ounce of what you're creating could even vaguely be construed as sexist/racist/ableist

I like this new excuse you guys are using now.

"Diversity is hard because someone somewhere will complain about it! So.... let's make everyone white! Surely nobody will ever complain about that!"

Rathar DashingNov 19, 20181 votes

WHO is saying that.

boricCentaur1Nov 19, 20182 votes

{quoted}

If you think making a character black or old or in any way diverse is "limiting creativity"..... it's only because your own creativity is very limited.

Heck you could've just made Neeko look African. Same identical character, but black anime moe girl instead of white moe girl.

Diversity isn't even hard.

One: can you stop with this bs im being a dick to you why are you being a dick to me I never said having a character be black or old is limiting I said if you force it limits the creator. Why do you keep lying. Two: when you make a character you make it the way you want it to be and changing it to fit diversity would just be a fuck you to the creator and also it would not make sense when you make a character you pick what color it is what they look like and you do not make character designs in one day you go through drafts and there are reasons for all of it so if you make the character black after they were already done you basically just ruined the character. Three: divsersity is not is hard but you just end up with a soulless stereotype if you focus on it and I do not know about you but I do not want that.

LunSeiSleideeNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Three: divsersity is not is hard but you just end up with a soulless stereotype if you focus on it and I do not know about you but I do not want that.

That's only if you think other races (or even body types) are soulless stereotypes.

A black dude doesn't need to display black culture and speak in slang. A fat dude doesn't need to be a joke character or a glutton.

Diversity is easy unless you don't understand diversity. As long as you think it's hard to make a character of another race, it only means you find it hard to understand other races.

mrmeddymanNov 19, 20186 votes

{quoted}

The fact that DIVERSITY limits CREATIVITY is like the silliest oxymoron....

It's not an organic diversity that comes from the artistic process, but when there is a literal mandate for their to be a black female champion in the game how is that not a restriction on what the champion designers can't do. Look at the backlash Overwatch is getting for trying to be diverse (a little too much in my opinion, half of the cast are just walking caricatures with overexaggerated accents) they still get the backlash for not having a black female when their latest hero was announced.

LunSeiSleideeNov 19, 20182 votes

{quoted}

It's not an organic diversity that comes from the artistic process, but when there is a literal mandate for their to be a black female champion in the game how is that not a restriction on what the champion designers can't do. Look at the backlash Overwatch is getting for trying to be diverse (a little too much in my opinion, half of the cast are just walking caricatures with overexaggerated accents) they still get the backlash for not having a black female when their latest hero was announced.

If you read the news, the "blacklash" was one single person on the internet (Twitter, if I recall correctly).

Then the media went on it like hyenas to fabricate the "news", and get pageviews and clicks.

But let's assume it was all true.

Let's say that even if you make culturally and physically diverse characters, there's always someone complaining it's not diverse enough (not to mention those complaining it's "SJW crap").

So, do we keep making same-bodied, same-faced edgy boys and hot babes, all white skinned, all the same age and figure?

The answer is no. First, because that'll get backlash anyway. And if whatever you do someone somewhere is gonna be pissed, at least make what's right. And we all know that same-faced, same-bodied identical stereotypes are not what's right.

mrmeddymanNov 20, 20184 votes

For me it isn't about right and wrong. It's about artistic integrity. An integrity that is compromised whenever the artist conforms to what society thinks it wants. That's not the point of art, that's just politics. Art is about an individual expressing themselves through any medium WITHOUT a filter. If people are telling you what you can or can't do as an artist then that's antithetical to what art is in the first place. I would say take the backlash/criticism bravely. The point I was trying to make was that Overwatch WELCOMES that criticism by painting themselves as a game about diversity (very good for PR in our PC culture for sure, whether it's genuine is up to interpretation). League needs to pick their side. Either go the diversity route and walk eggshells while you tick off boxes for it's own sake or maintain artistic integrity and tell anyone who says otherwise to make their own fucking art if it bothers them so much.

Additional Point: Also new champ is probably gay judging by interactions with other champs so there's your diversity right there

Additional Logistical Point: And then there's' the fact that this is the colorful champ and being black would probably make her colors clash

..... and then I have to mention that I'm ofc black and that's how I know we don't look good in rainbow colors especially lighter greens

AbiwonKenabiNov 20, 20181 votes

In Overwatch's defense, half the time they get a voice actor that is literally FROM the same country of origin, or at least a native speaker of the language. So the exaggerated accents are actually somewhat accurate (Doomfist, Mercy, Mei come to mind, there are others).

But otherwise I agree. I thought it was ridiculous that people were crying over the most recent hero, Ashe, not being black. Just another stupid white girl...because apparently those are bad now, right?

zolikingNov 19, 20189 votes

{quoted}

League's pool of female champions is lacking SORELY in diversity. There are disgustingly basic needs in the roster (Like: a female black champion, an actual crone, or more females who are truly monsters).

How is that a need? How are any of these characteristics even relevant to LoL champions, who are defined mostly based on what they can do?

To my horror, we're getting Neeko instead.

Oh, the horror. I can't believe you manage to bear it with such grace and bravery. You truly are a hero.

What happened to champions like Rek'Sai, Kalista, and Illaoi?

They are still there.

Those were amazing, diverse champs that I was wholeheartedly excited for.

A champion cannot be diverse. Diversity is an attribute a group may or may not have, not that of an individual. Congrats on your understanding of basic English.

When I saw Neeko in a Youtube thumbnail, I thought she was some Xayah fanart. She's that fucking boring. She has the same eyes, albeit 20x too big. She's just another cute girl character when we literally didn't need one, all but a handful of League's girls are oozing sex appeal.

She's a lizard person, buddy, and the art team executed well on that concept.

Riot, you're letting your female playerbase down in unforgivable ways.

You may not forgive Riot, but I would wager players who actually play the game, male and female, are interested in her gameplay first, the art and lore second and this nonsense you're babbling about... well, probably not at all.

I've been following your scandals regarding the treatment of female employees, and I, personally, am tremendously let down. To me, Neeko is simple proof that you aren't giving diverse voices the chance to shine, and are listening to the same good ol' boys over and over.

Solid proof. Take it to court.

If you value your female playerbase, you will take Neeko back to the drawing board right now. If not.... Well, we've heard what you have to say. Guess I won't be seeing you on the rift.

Bye. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

VelivoloNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Solid proof. Take it to court.

https://www.polygon.com/2018/11/7/18070340/riot-games-gender-discrimination-lawsuit-class-action

Brought by two female Riot employees, seeking to make it class action.

zolikingNov 19, 20188 votes

{quoted}

https://www.polygon.com/2018/11/7/18070340/riot-games-gender-discrimination-lawsuit-class-action

Brought by two female Riot employees, seeking to make it class action.

Aside from how I still guarantee you that Neeko's release will not be anybody's argument there, congrats on ignoring everything I wrote in response to your nonsense and then failing to address even the tiny bit you chose to respond to.

mrmeddymanNov 19, 20187 votes

The sort of diversity you speak of has no place in the creative process because it gimps creativity with the need to satisfy a quota. The game doesn't need any of the things you suggest it needs to have artists that can pursue whatever design they want to make. It's disingenuous to make this the core of the artistic process. Another little underrated game I love champions this idea of diversity, you may have heard of it it's called Overwatch. While I like the way the game plays most of the characters are just paper thin stereotypes that are good on a surface level but don't really have any depth, which is fine because Overwatch doesn't really care about telling stories. League however does so the writers and artists must have complete control over the output.

I do like that you only mention female champs can be diverse in your post (Rek'Sai, Kalista, and Illaoi a female black champion, an actual crone, or more females who are truly monsters). Can male champions not be more diverse then the warrior archetypes we've been getting?

VelivoloNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The sort of diversity you speak of has no place in the creative process because it gimps creativity

Making the same white girl over and over is not creative. Neeko is not creative. I mistook her for Xayah in the thumbnail.

Commodore CogNov 19, 20188 votes

So all white girls look the same to you?

Overlord ForneusNov 20, 20186 votes

Wow, Velivolo, gonna say your prejudice is showing, you may want to tuck it back in before you embarrass yourself.

Weiss GuertenaNov 20, 20186 votes

-enter game as Neeko -use your passive on allied Rek'Sai, Kalista or Illaoi

There you go. Now let the rest of us enjoy a well made new character.

Jennifer420Nov 19, 20185 votes

i hate humans.

zolikingNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

i hate humans.

Hey, some of us are okay. Take Tom Hanks, for example. Tom Hanks is okay.

Rathar DashingNov 19, 20181 votes

Tom Hanks sucks

zolikingNov 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WrV6acJl,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-11-19T23:00:08.727+0000)

Tom Hanks sucks

There are other examples. Neil deGrasse Tyson is okay too.

Overlord ForneusNov 20, 20182 votes

Dude, if Tom Hanks punched a nun, you'd be asking what the nun did. smh

Commodore CogNov 19, 20185 votes

Better Female Champions. NOW.

Listen to your own entitlement. It's as if you feel that if you demand loud enough or feel insulted enough, then Riot will bend over backwards to cater specifically to you.

News flash: Your opinions are a drop in a bucket. The vast majority of the playerbase enjoys good looking, well designed champions. If you don't like this specific champion design you can feel free not to play her and continue to play Rek'Sai, Kalista, and Illaoi. They haven't gone anywhere.

ZyraniumNov 19, 20184 votes

I was seriously expecting Ighilya from Ahri's story, I wanted an old elegant mother nature.

When I see that both Zyra and Nidalee are listed as shurimans now, and got no Lore update concerning the Kumungu Jungles, I think that's the most disappointing character reveal I've seen in a while (Since Kai'sa actually).

She's cute, I like her design, but next time I shouldn't be over-hyped like this.

ChunLiiNov 19, 20181 votes

I was never excited for her. Colourful mage just wasn’t very appealing to me. I mean I am not disappointed or pleased because I didn’t have that much expectation in first place. I am way more excited for the next champion and the Kayle/Morgana rework.

ZyraniumNov 19, 20181 votes

Yeah I should get back to the hype for Morgana/Kayle dual update [sg-ahri-2]

KelgNov 19, 20183 votes

bye hopefully wont see you again

HethaleanNov 19, 20182 votes

ho boy

TzQGRUST39Nov 19, 20182 votes

Checks OP.GG Nami, Sona, Soraka

Every. Time. Looks like you are the market they are after famalam.

SSmotzerNov 20, 20182 votes

The marketing data shows that champions who are designed to be cute and small are played more than champions who are... unappealing to look at. And those skins for the small cute champions sell more than skins for... other champions.

Battle Bunny Riven sells more than all of Gragas's skins combined. Any Poppy skin will always sell better than a Rek'Sai skin.

Would it be nice for more diversity in LoL? Sure, but the market isn't suited for a crone or a monster girl... who isn't cute.

Stars ShaperNov 20, 20181 votes

I mean... we had a single old-man character and turned out to be a "spank-me-daddy!" ruler who looks better than I will ever be (and I'm not even that ugly, mind you).