In-game has nothing to do with lore. (in response to reactions of Aurelion Sol)

pepper buddy·3/5/2016, 11:40:04 PM·25 votes·4,002 views

A while back riot divorced gameplay and lore. As such the "powerlevel" of new champs has absolutely nothing to do with their counterparts on the rift. All champs will have an Q,W,E,R and passive(s) in game but that is only a representation. In lore Bard can likely kill half the champions without much effort but it does not matter as lore is not equal to gameplay.

Powerlevel could potentially be a problem, but not because anything that happens in game.

Edit: it seems people deliberately miss the point of this post. I will repeat: Powerlevel could potentially be a problem, but not because anything that happens in game.

46 Comments

Verxint3/5/2016, 11:44:23 PM23 votes

They said they killed off the lore because they had no way for super powerful entities to make sense in league with the whole Summoner thing

Now we have no explanation as to why anyone is in the League.

PaladinNO3/6/2016, 1:04:28 AM11 votes

Well, in my view, it is quite simple: a champion may be able to do all that the videos/lore displays to us and tells us, but when actually playing, it is us, the "summoner's" as Riot have so eloquently decided to put it, who controls said champion, and I like think of it as being so simple as us not being able to unlock a champion's full potential.

Or to do a TL;DR version of that: Logic < ingame.

Honestly, I think it's a pity Riot kills off the lore and replaces with...stories? I don't want a story of what a champion does and/or can do. I want to know his or her background, where they come from, what is their reason for joining the league.

I like Blizzards approach on this - because to them, the lore isn't just some sidekick to the games themselves, but a major part of the game. True, I haven't seen Kerrigan fly yet outside the cinematics, but if they would do as Riot does, they could say "meh, we'll kill off Kerrigan - none cares about the lore anyway".

It just wouldn't work.

And I have read a reason, a Red post, on this - which I sincerly trust isn't accurate - and that was that apparently the majority didn't want to read so much. Now, I can't say this without insulting anyone, but please believe me, I just want to make a stereotypical statement with no offense intended: if this is about "the known" lazy American way of life, and the lore, aka the amount of text, is being cut due to people can't be bothered to read (which isn't exactly hard work), then I want to throw a punch at those who decided to actually cut down on the lore to please, and I dread to think of this, the majority of the players.

Just leave the text, Riot - you want to make it as history progresses, fine, then you add to the lore...but you DON'T remove it!! These champion stories, sure, they're entertaining enough, but that's all it is - it's a single story of a day in a champion's life (or similar) - it says nothing of their origins and so on.

Example: http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/thresh/#champion-lore

http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/lucian/#champion-lore

...(rhetorical question) how can anyone claim the latter is a lot to read, and still consider themselves sane or educated?

Headbiter3/6/2016, 12:54:57 AM7 votes

[{quoted}](name=pepper buddy,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=NHMtBEh7,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-05T23:40:04.708+0000)

A while back riot divorced gameplay and lore.

You say that as if it was a good thing...

But Riot setting game development back by some 20 years (and fans applauding them for that) aside, can somebody tell me who other than the Riot Defense Force ever made the claim that lore had any impact on game mechanics?

The problem with Aurelion (and Kindred. And Bard) being insanely overpowered in comparison to the other champions has ALWAYS been a lore issue. Hence us posting in the STORY, Art & Sound subforums, instead of the Gameplay-forum. Riot fucked their own setting over for reasons of lazine-, erm, I mean "creative freedom", realized how stupid a decision that was an eternity after everyone halfway invested in their game world TOLD THEM so and have been promising us their "super awesome" reconstruction for so long, I seriously cannot tell whether "Winds of Winter" will be published before or after that.

The last Rift-concerned lore contribution was the "A New Dawn"-cinematic, which showed us that wildly mixed teams of champions still battle on the Rift. Fuck know why, but apparently they do.

Enter aforementioned Super-Trio. Whatever the reason for all the other champions, how could a galctical caretaker, the incarnation of death and a FORGER OF STARS have any possible interest in fighting on the Rift, and if they had an interest, who but the other two would have even the slightest chance of putting even a scratch on them? It is and has always been a lore problem. So anyone who felt bothered by people worrying about in-game issues, shove your heads a bit deeper down your asses, take a deep breath and carry on. We're firmly rooted in a lore/story/credibility-debate.

As to the issue itself: You started your post with the claim that Riot divorced gameplay and lore.

Thing is, they didn't. Not really. And since then, they don't seem to be sure WHAT the fuck they want. First the summoners ( a concept of somewhat involving the players in the game world) were gone...now Riot can't stop reassuring us that they are still there, but refuse to tell us what they are supposed to be and what they do. And that is exactly where the debate about Aurelion Sol comes in. As far as we know, the Rift still exists. And champions - ALL the champions - still fight on it. So while gameplay-wise he's just another champion, lore-wise Aurelion just ended all conflict on the Rift. He wins. Kindred and Bard at least were such removed entities you could make the argument that they had barely any interest on...whatever champions fight on the Rift for. But Aurelion has clearly shown a very human mindset. As far as his personality is concerned, there is nothing removed or alien about him. If he comes to the Rift, he comes so with a goal, an objective, and thus making him the first god-tier champion who has no interest on just fooling around or holding back Thus the fact that they DIDN'T really divorce the game and it's lore from each other is exactly the problem.

And honestly by now I'd even welcome IF they actually DID that. As I said numerous times by now, it would be a lazy and regressive step but at least it would be a decisive step. Tell us that the Rift doesn't exist, Summoners don't exist, take the 20 seconds it takes to rename the "Summoner Spells" and be done with it. Again, I'd welcome the opposite. Hell, just take over Cupcaketrap's "League Factions"-concept. Even better, go full Valve and pay the poor fucker for doing what you should've done for years now. But if that hampers your "creative vision" too much (a vision, I might add, that produced so many one-note characters I could craft a haiku out of them), fine, go the other route.

But bloody do something.

Stop fiddling around like a teen girl before prom night, not sure whether she should pad her bra or not. And definitely skip the J.J. Abrams-esque "Mystery Box"-attitude. It's shit when he does it and thus an imitation can only be worse.

Sorry, what was I talking about? Oh yeah, Aurelion's power level is a lore-issue, stop pretending that anyone claimed it would be anything else.

Weesiwel3/6/2016, 2:15:26 AM5 votes

The problem with this argument is they removed Gangplank from the game when he was "dead". If the game is divorced from lore why did that occur?

Pikmints3/6/2016, 4:46:21 PM5 votes

Lore and gameplay should almost always be separated. Lore is a nice addition to the worldbuilding, but insisting on going 1-1 with lore often causes bad gameplay.

In certain Mario lore, he's a person that has normally functioning lungs (as seen in games like Super Mario 64). But in games like Super Mario Bros. he'll spend unreasonable amounts of time underwater because the idea of underwater levels provides varied gameplay and opens up room for aesthetic variance. Ignoring that detail in the lore allows the game to be more creative.

In Pokemon, there are various god-like Pokemon that have control over time and space. In lore there's no reason for those creatures to ever be caught as they'd both be able to effectively teleport (making combat/fleeing effortless), prevent any Pokeballs from hitting them, and that lore would cause there to be Pokemon that are unobtainable. They are obtainable though because their power in-game is far less than their lore says they'd be, making them a balanced part of that game and an achievement for each player that catches them.

Imagine if GTA stuck to their lore to the letter. They take place in the real world where cars/planes would need to be filled up with gas from time to time and people wouldn't enjoy doing that. It's not compelling gameplay and the version we get now is streamlined to keep people playing the fun parts of it. Real world lore can also extend to series like Call of Duty where reloading a clip where 1 bullet was expended wouldn't in real life do what that game does. You'd either dispose of or holster a clip with 1 bullet expended, the current version simply streamlines the gameplay and reduces the amount of management that game requires.

Lore is nice, but often times shouldn't be the highest priority when determining gameplay.

Abyssphere3/6/2016, 4:35:13 PM2 votes

Personally I'm less concerned about what Aurelion Sol is capable of doing and more concerned with just... size. I know League already has some giant champions but even the giants we currently have are ants compared to Aurelion Sol. It's just gonna be hard to comprehend seeing a universe-sized dragon fighting a little girl who somehow is not much smaller than him.

BLU Medic3/7/2016, 6:43:29 AM2 votes

I've got no problem with the lore not being entirely connected to gameplay, but I'd like some sort of in-universe explanation of what we're actually doing and why we're on Summoners Rift.

Team Fortress 2 has a ton of lore that makes no sense, but gameplay is somewhat explained, we're either constantly fighting the gravel wars between the Mann brothers, or we're reenacting the gravel wars in a historically inaccurate way. But mostly the former.

In LoL, there's no longer any real connection between the two, which the Summoners thing used to actually do quite well before it was retconned.

ModAcademy Kayn3/6/2016, 3:28:12 AM1 votes

I mean, if ya wanted a strange way of connecting champs to Lore, it's kinda easy.

"Summoners" are people who take inspiration from powerful/dangerous/etc people/demons/heros and make their own "copies" of the champs, as a way to compete for politics or whatever ya want. People like Aurelian Sol or Kindred are just inspired from Legends, and people like MF or Gangplank are heard from news and etc. idk.

Nechronia3/6/2016, 9:02:32 PM1 votes

You mean that a small fuzzy creature who entirely relies on poisons and darts wouldn't be able to kill shit like Mordekaiser and Hecarim lore wise? Who would have thought.

Impetual3/8/2016, 10:27:52 AM1 votes

The day that Riot decided to divorced gameplay from lore, Is the day I thought that Riot became too lazy too make it's game accurately depict it's lore.

Yeah, champion power levels could be a problem, that's why we need creative writing with each and every new champion to keep the playing field level.

Divorcing the champion's in-game from who they actually are in their lore is only going to hurt this game.

RIot seems to intentionally want to shoot itself in the foot by divorcing it's lore from gameplay... Granted, I see how it might be hard to integrate RIot's lore into gameplay (like it used to), but let's look at how awesome it would be if Riot did just that!

It would be awesome! Riot please! Integrate your lore into LoL gameplay!

Vistha Kai3/7/2016, 8:04:14 PM1 votes

Why to bother with any lore then? Those two sentence long champion introductions are enough.

I mean, even HotS or Marvel vs Capcom have more meaningful, impactful lores.

A fucking fighting game.

Mirelyght3/6/2016, 8:56:08 AM1 votes

originally they explained the whole leveling up a champion in game thru the lore. every time a summoner summons a champion they have to re-explore/learn how to control that champion effectively.

the way they explained it they had built in plot armor for powerful entities....so i don't know what the big deal was. prolly just had a falling out with their lore staff.