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Which alignment does each champion belong too?

Isacrux··4 votes·2,160 views

Exactly what the title says. Can someone give me a list of alignments each champion is associated with? A friend asked this question about Morgana and we were stuck on Neutral Evil, Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Good.

E.g) Chaotic Evil:

Jhin Jinx Thresh

56 Comments

Tattersall4 votes

Okay, here we go. Note that this is all assumptions and opinion (btw, I'm of the opinion that lawful can imply close-minded loyalty to the law, without judging on your own [Sorry for the massive post]). Aatrox Unknown, but I assume NE Ahri Was TN or CN, but is now NG or CG Akali NG, but under Shen strives to be TN Alistar …I'm not sure. Is his lore updated? Amumu Unknown. Probably TN just because he's so childlike Anivia NG Annie See Alistar Ashe NG AurelionSol EDIT: CN Azir He's probably considered good, but I have to go with LN Bard So far above us that he can't be judged. Unknown Blitzcrank NG Brand CE Braum NG Caitlyn NG Camille CN with good deep down Cassiopeia hmm… CG but with over-loyalty to the family Chogath CE Corki See Alistar Darius Loyal to Swain Diana CG DrMundo Batsh t insane. Does that mean CE or CN? Draven Alignment based on narcissism Ekko CG Elise NE Evelynn Unknown Ezreal TN with heroic tendencies Fiddlesticks Unknown Fiora LN Fizz CG Galio See Alistar Gangplank Hard to say. He ruled Bilgewater with an iron fist, but he kept gang-crime in check. Out of love for his nation? Hard to say. Garen LG Gnar See Amumu Gragas CG Graves CN Hecarim CE Heimerdinger See Alistar Illaoi Meant to help people fulfill their destiny, whatever it may be Irelia See Alistar Ivern NG Janna NG JarvanIV NG Jax Unknown Jayce LG Jhin CE Jinx See Mundo Kalista LN Karma NG Karthus CE, but legit thinks he's CG Kassadin LG, but lore not updated Katarina See Cassiopeia Kayle See Kassadin Kennen CG, but under Shen strives to be TN Khazix CN Kindred See Bard Kled The only law of Noxus is strength (chaotic whatever) KogMaw CN, but too childlike to judge Leblanc Unknown LeeSin Strives to be TN? Leona LG, but since "ascension" leaning NG Lissandra LE Lucian LG, but since his wife "died," CG actions with CN motive Lulu CN or CG. Hard to tell with Yordles Lux NG, but with over-loyalty to the family/crown Malphite See Alistar Malzahar I thought he was CE, but he might be TN with CE actions Maokai NG MasterYi Strives for TN MissFortune EDIT: CG but has gone CE for revenge against GP Mordekaiser NE Morgana See Alistar Nami NG Nasus LG with NG tendencies Nautilus See Alistar Nidalee See Alistar Nocturne Unknown, but assumed CE Nunu NG, but too childlike to judge Olaf CN Orianna In life, NG, but it's a little harder to tell with robot cyborgs Pantheon Almost see Bard, but I'm'a go with NE Poppy Believes in LG, but leans NG Quinn NG Rammus Unknown RekSai CE Renekton See Mundo Rengar Literally just a guy who really likes hunting. Probably LN or TN Riven CG striving for NG Rumble See Alistar Ryze LG or NG Sejuani Motives are CG, actions can be viewed as CN Shaco Unknown. See Mundo Shen Probably the most TN a human can get. Unwavering TN Shyvana CN, but CG thanks to J4 Singed CE Sion CN with see Mundo tendencies Sivir CN Skarner CG Sona See Alistar Soraka LG or NG Swain Unknown Syndra CN TahmKench NE Taliyah NG but LG actions due to lack of information Talon See Cassiopeia Taric NG Teemo See Alistar Thresh CE Tristana See Lulu Trundle NE Tryndamere CN see Alistar TwistedFate CN Twitch Unknown Udyr NG Urgot See Alistar Varus Willingly became more chaotic for revenge, but legit revenge. I'm not sure Vayne LN Veigar CE with CG motives Velkoz CN Vi CG Viktor …NG in his own way Vladimir C-Unknown Volibear CG Warwick Chaotic CG MonkeyKing CG, under Yi strives for TN Xerath EDIT: Originally CG motives, but now CE with CE motives XinZhao NG, but maybe over-loyal to the crown Yasuo CN Yorick CG Zac NG with chaotic tendencies Zed Can be argued as NG, CG, or CN Ziggs See Lulu Zilean See Alistar Zyra CN

First, why did I put so much effort into this. Second, please discuss these with me. I like this topic (Let's hope I didn't mess up and put the wrong champion portrait somewhere).

Isacrux2 votes

I will edit this reply later. I'm glad to see different views on the alignment of champions, but i can't contribute much at the moment because I'm still evaluating the lore I have missed/forgotten.

Sozan51 votes

I think Lawful also applies if you have strict moral code of your own.

Tattersall2 votes

Yeah, some people interpret it as that, and I'm fine with that. Like, originally, the alignment chart was just lawful, neutral, and chaotic, with lawful being good and chaotic being bad. Overtime it was realized that that's a pretty narrow way of thinking, so it was expanded. So just as chaotic can have good qualities, I believe that lawful can have bad qualities. This really is just me tho, I understand how it can be seen differently. I just think that neutral good is the most pure form of hero, because they're good, but also have the mind to be flexible and make decisions for themselves.

Sozan52 votes

I think Lawful is actually more flawed than Chaotic.

Lawful means you will follow the orders no matter what decision it will force you to do (Lawful route in Tactics Ogre is a good exaple - you slaughtered a village of innocents because that's what the superior orders were and you were bound to listen to them).

Chaotic on the other hand means that you take decision without paying any mind to law/orders (funny thing is - actively trying to break law and never follow it will actually make you lawful xD).

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

This is the Lawful Stupid interpretation of Lawful. Usually made by people who don't actually read the Paladin Oaths. A Lawful Neutral character does not necessarily have to commit an Evil act because it is the law. Actually, you could make a strong case that this is Lawful Evil.

I've always seen it best interpreted by how a character would react to unjust laws or evil orders. A lawful neutral or definitely lawful good character would try to fix the laws or chain of command within the system of laws whenever possible. A chaotic neutral of good would just ignore them, or try to take down the whole system (depending on further interpretations of what it means to be chaotic)

Sozan51 votes

This is just an example of pure lawful - never did I write that it was good, neutral or evil. And yes, Lawful Good character would definitely fight against "evil" laws (and the opposite). Doesn't change the fact that following orders from the superiors no matter what makes a character lawful (depending on the actual orders it might be good, evil or neutral).

Also, I imagine that chaotic neutral character wouldn't try to fight evil laws - unless it was in their interest to do so. You seem to put good and neutral in one pile a lot actually. Don't forget that neutral (not leaning to either side) characters do evil deeds as often as they do good ones.

Actually, now that I think about it - Lawful Neutral is probably the character that will follow any order from superior (or anything that directly ties to his own moral code) no matter how good or evil it would be. The one that you called Lawful Stupid. While Lawful Good will fight against anything Evil and Lawful Evil will fight against anything Good.

And of course, keep in mind that the alignment is pretty much never "pure" as it would make pretty one-dimensional characters.

Fasmodey1 votes

''Xerath CN with CG motives''

What?

I think you are mistaken CG with CE.

Xerath's actions are terribly evil, no question.

Tattersall1 votes

Wait one second brushes up on Xerath lore Crap, you're right. I remembered that Xerath really just wanted slavery to end, but forgot that it was really for selfish reasons and then magic kind of corrupted him. I'm changing it to… Originally CG motives, but now CE with CE motives.

Fasmodey1 votes

I edited it before you. ^^ I figured out.

Tattersall1 votes

lol, edited my response.

Fasmodey2 votes

Now this conversation makes no sense. xD

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Hmm, doesn't Cass just randomly betray Sivir and cause her own transformation? That doesn't really scream "good" to me.

I'd also argue against Sol being that far above us. While he is certainly powerful, he has a definite personality that is relatable, and discernible goals. And considering the alignment system was used to judge characters far more powerful than Sol in the old D&D settings, I'd say he could be pegged somewhere.

There's also things like Shen, who claims to be true neutral, but follows it with such a firm and unwavering code, which is part of the definition of being lawful. So he'd be Lawful Neutral.

I also think Xerath has far passed the slippery slope to evil by now. He's not the kid who wanted freedom anymore. He's the creature that kills and mind controls things on a whim.

Tattersall1 votes

I based my decision for Cass on her short story, The Shedding of Skin, but I also think that she did what she did to Sivir because of her extreme loyalty to the family and her desire to elevate them (and herself). I stick with what I said. Over-loyalty to the family can make one do bad things.

Sol is complex. I guess I could put him as CN, 'cuz he really just wants freedom, but he's willing to do a lot to get it. But he's also facing beings that are far beneath him… I'll just put him as CN.

I've always interpreted lawful as being loyal to the laws created by man. Shen doesn't follow those laws, he balances the universe no matter what. Though I do see your view, so I'll change it to "Unwavering TN."

You're right about Xerath, it's been changed.

Sozan51 votes

Assuming that Bandle City is a force of good (we don't know their goals as an organization): Corki : LG Tristana : LG/NG Teemo : LG (possibly LN?) - a bit too little information to say for sure. With what we have, I'd say it's LG, since all we know is that he doesn't really feel anything for killing his targets, which I don't think is evil in itself - however, it can very easily go hand in hand with him treating innocents simply as collateral damage - but honestly, I don't think that's the case, if by nothing else then just by this quote:

Despite his genuinely warm personality, something switches off inside Teemo's mind during combat so that the lives he must end while on patrol do not burden him.

This word right here implies that he doesn't kill anyone unless he must.

Heimerdinger : LG (leaning to LN - just because he doesn't seem all that phased by neither Vel'Koz nor Viktor)

Taunting Vel'Koz: "I don't agree with your methods, but by golly, do you get results!" Taunting Viktor: "If you seek to replace all humans, there will be no one left to appreciate your work."

Lulu : CN Gnar : Just a kid, I don't think he understands what good and evil is - so TN. Ziggs : NG / CG Veigar : CE? (while it sounds nice to "end all conflict on Valoran" the fact remains that he basically wants to dominate everyone and bound them to his will) Rumble : CG Kled : CN / CE Poppy : No idea actually. Probably NG. Kennen : TN (in different way than Gnar though. He knows what good and evil is and wants to keep perfect balance between the two). He seems to be slightly leaning to the good side (as opposed to Akali which seems to be ever so slightly leaning towards evil).

Psilocybinium1 votes

Im sorry but mf, is evil, she almost killed a man, and used two guys (tf and graves) just for her selfish purposes, revenge is evil.

Tattersall1 votes

No need to apologize, I asked for discussion : ) Anyway, interesting take. I hadn't thought about it like that. See, MF was ultimately trying to do what she thought was good for Bilgewater, killing a tyrant who had ruled with an iron fist. But my mind had neglected to remind me about her general attitude during Burning Tides and her story, Down Among the Dead Men. I only remembered her personality from Shadow and Fortune, for some reason. To prevent this post from getting any longer, I'll cut to the chase: After giving some more thought, I'm changing her from "CG" to "CG but has gone CE for revenge against GP"

LordGeovanni2 votes

Morgana is more chaotic good that chaotic evil.

Warlord Dienekes2 votes

The problem is the alignment system is not exactly precise. It turns out trying to dictate complex philosophical and moral realities into a two-axis system is hard. Who knew?

For example I could see a reason to claim Jhin is Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil, and Chaotic Evil. I could even see a reason why someone would claim Jhin isn't evil at all. I'd think they were crazy, but I've seen it done before.

It also doesn't help that the system itself has been rewritten a few times since its first introduction.

So, if you want to know, I'd ask you a few questions.

On the Lawful/Chaotic axis, which do you consider more important, following personal codes or following societal codes? This is a huge distinction, if you just look at one of the most common examples given in this system: Robin Hood. Robin Hood broke societal code repeatedly, stealing from the rich and fighting King John and the Sheriff. So, clearly that's Chaotic, right? But John's reign was legitimate, and Robin was gathering money not just for the poor that were being unjustly taxed, but to raise money for the return of the true King Richard. So taken that way, he's clearly firmly Lawful. Honestly, he becomes one of the most Lawful characters in the setting. Even Friar Tuck compromised his morals a few times, Robin never does.

What is Good/Evil? If someone thinks they're helping people but is really making their lives fundamentally worse, or even kills them are they good because of their intentions or evil because of their actions? Illaoi What is amoral? Can there be creatures above good and evil, or is that just an excuse for the evil who don't wish to be judged?

Anyway, if I would go what I view the characters as (and I'm sure many would disagree for the reasons I listed above) it would be something like this (just posting characters I have a decent grasp on):

Aatrox: NE Ahri: CE but trying to repent as she gains humanity Ashe: LG Aurelion Sol: TN with some evil leanings due to apathy toward killing lower lifeforms Azir: LN with maybe good leanings due to trying to free his slaves Bard: LN entirely gut reaction. We don't know his motives or what the hell he's doing, but he seems to have some code for his actions Brand: CE Braum: LG Cassiopeia: NE Cho'Gath: NE Darius: LN with both good and bad leanings depending on your thoughts on military expansion Diana: CN Dr. Mundo: NE Draven: NE his job is necessary, but his obvious sadism with it pushes him to Evil in my mind Ekko: CN with Good leanings Elise: NE Fiora: LN based solely on how seriously she takes the rules of dueling. Gangplank: NE Garen: LG or LN depending on further details Gnar: CN Gragas: CN Graves: CN with some evil leanings Illaoi: LE with neutral leanings Jhin: NE Jinx: CE Kled: CE Leona: NG as a child LN with evil leanings as an adult then unknown after possession Miss Fortune: TN with maybe more evil than she would admit in her Pantheon: little bitch Shaco: CE Shen: LN Swain: NE with lawful leanings (entirely based on my interpretation of him, I will admit) Wukong: CN with good leanings Veigar: EVIL!!!! Zac: CG Ziggs: TN despite his penchant for explosives I don't think he's ever done anything good, bad, chaotic, or lawful. He just likes explosives

Isacrux2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Lta3P3Po,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-03-03T21:49:56.805+0000)

So, if you want to know, I'd ask you a few questions.

On the Lawful/Chaotic axis, which do you consider more important, following personal codes or following societal codes? This is a huge distinction, if you just look at one of the most common examples given in this system: Robin Hood. Robin Hood broke societal code repeatedly, stealing from the rich and fighting King John and the Sheriff. So, clearly that's Chaotic, right? But John's reign was legitimate, and Robin was gathering money not just for the poor that were being unjustly taxed, but to raise money for the return of the true King Richard. So taken that way, he's clearly firmly Lawful. Honestly, he becomes one of the most Lawful characters in the setting. Even Friar Tuck compromised his morals a few times, Robin never does.

This question is boggling my mind right now, but here goes. Lets take Draven for an example of social; legendary executioner looking for glory and recognition, right? Not everyone, both in the real world and Runeterra, would agree. His methods are seen as incredulous and cruel to some (Chaotic), but what about Noxian citizens? Draven is seen as an executioner first and foremost and he is just doing his job to "entertain" his people (Lawful, maybe more Neutral?).

Following the new lore, you have someone like DrMundo. Mundo follows Mundo's codes all the time, Mundo truly believes Mundo is helping the sick and wounded. But we all know what really happens to Mundo's "patients" after Mundo is done with them (Sorry, couldn't help myself).

After some reevaluation, I believe following social codes is the way to go.

What is Good/Evil? If someone thinks they're helping people but is really making their lives fundamentally worse, or even kills them are they good because of their intentions or evil because of their actions? What is amoral? Can there be creatures above good and evil, or is that just an excuse for the evil who don't wish to be judged?

Dragging DrMundo back here, everything I stated above. To put it plainly, Mundo himself believes he is doing good while others believe he is evil. I also believe that there can be creatures above good and evil. I think it's safe to say that Kindred fits in this category since they are literally death itself, they don't take sides.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

After some reevaluation, I believe following social codes is the way to go.

You see I usually go with personal codes over societal law. But that might be because I have a rather large D&D backgorund and if you go by the societal interpretation you get to weird things like Drow Society, where the law is to be unlawful. So, does that mean that lawful characters should follow the laws and lie cheat and steal with aplomb, while they're in Drow territory? Does that make every Drow lawful?

Going by personal codes just makes more sense to me, though I will admit it has it's own flaws.

And as to

I also believe that there can be creatures above good and evil.

I really don't, and neither did the creators of the alignment system considering the actual gods were given individual alignments. But then for the most part they were also given human-ish motives.

For Kindred, for example, they focus solely on their singular task which they do impartially for both good and bad as a psychopomp that keeps the world going. That screams True Neutral to me. While a different god of death who takes pleasure in killing and hording the innocent (for example Hel from Norse religions) would fit very neatly into the Evil alignment.

But you do not have to agree with me, at all. Just know that my view of the alignment system has colored why I placed different characters into different categories than you might.

YokoNomi1 votes

Is Jinx really chaotic evil? I know she causes mayhem, but I don't recall her lore ever so much as mentioning her killing anyone.

GreenLore2 votes

Well destroying others property for no reason at all is still regarded as an act of evil. So overall I'd say that Jinx is a very light tone of chaotic evil.

Placentas1 votes

Destroying property is a very exaggerated example of "evil". It's just objects, not lives.

GreenLore4 votes

So you wouldn't call me evil if I blew up your house,so that you have to live on the street(insurance likely isn't a thing on runeterra),basically ruining your entire life,just because it was fun for me to see your house burn?

Property damage still hurts people indirectly and even Jinx understands this(she would likely be upset if someone demolished her stuff),but she disregards this completely.

Its not as bad as torturing or killing people,but its still something that is generally seen as evil.

Not to mention that while Jinx does not target people directly,she likely did kill a few people through her antics and doesn't care about it.

Placentas1 votes

I see your point, though I do disagree.

"but its still something that is generally seen as evil.", well yeah, perspective. Evil is a strong word such as a hate, and I personally reserve it for special instances and people.

From Jinx's perspective it probably isn't evil, destroying wealthy people's material possessions. I would see it as evil if she did, then stole Piltovian children, tortured them, snapped some images and sent those images to the parents. Like some next level shit.

Until I get an official kill count on Jinx, it can only be assumed she has killed people directly or indirectly.

LordGeovanni1 votes

and most killers think they are justified when they kill some one. Street killer is less justified because his loyalty to a gang army killer is more justified if he is in the right army aligned to your country

GreenLore2 votes

But you should judge people from a general standpoint,not from their own standpoint.

And destroying peoples stuff without any reason that would be considered justified by pretty much any sane person is evil.

Because if you judge people by their own morality,then there'd be almost no evil people or beings in the world,as most evil persons think of their own actions as justified. Singed for example thought it was ok to kidnap Warwick and transform and torture him because Warwick was a murderer(even though he was trying to reform and become a better person).

Placentas1 votes

"But you should judge people from a general standpoint"

Hmm, should you be telling anyone how to judge anyone else, fictional or not? If only a general standpoint is taken into thought, that leaves out so many other view points and takes on an event or person.

You're also assuming I solely am judging Jinx on her own perception/morality, where as I am also judging using my own perception as a viewer of fiction. I agree with Jinx, I don't see her actions as evil. The people of Piltover she has targeted all seem to have gotten rich off the demise of Zaun or are related to it.

In my eyes she's a bit of a more chaotic robin hood, except she's not really giving back to anyone else in terms of riches, but perhaps satisfaction at the sight of Piltover in flames.

There's a darkness that is inherit to evil in my eyes that Jinx just does not have. Crazy, Insane, Chaotic, even Killer, but I wouldn't call her Evil.

I know you wont agree and I don't expect you to.

GreenLore3 votes

When it comes to being evil or good,I say that you should try to see things from the norm,because I try to see it not just from my personal point of view,but from everyones point of view. However just because you think an action is understandable,doesn't mean it is justified. I can understand jinx and even jhin,but that doesn't mean that I'd see their actions as justified.

And I feel like you are generalizing Piltovians far too much. Sure the wealth of piltover is partially built at the cost of zaun,but not every piltovian is an a-hole,who exploits the zaunites at every opportunity. Likewise Jinx isn't doing anything to help anyone,she just likes to cause panics and blow stuff up. There is no noble cause behind it,so seeing her even remotely as something robin-hood-like feels rather out of place to me.

If she had a cause behind her actions,then I could at least understand the idea of her being neutral,but from what we know,she is essentially a light version of the joker,with the difference being that she is more concerned with destroying stuff than killing people Jinxs entire justification is that she is bored and she wants to be exited,so why would she care about the wellbeing of others. Thats basically the same justification that psychos like Shaco or Thresh have.

Ralanr1 votes

I still waver she's chaotic neutral, but it's hard to say because usually chaotic neutral characters show both shades of good and evil rather than neither and she's only shown destructive tendencies.

LordGeovanni1 votes

As you said jinx would have to show signs of chaotic good to get into chaotic neutral she only has chaotic evil so far and one act isnt really enough it would have to be in her personality habits

Warlord Dienekes2 votes

Her actions have definitely cost lives, that's just not her intention.

Which is hilariously evil. She is willing to murder by accident because she thinks it would be funny to blow up a building.

AlienPrimate1 votes

It isn't for no reason at all. She is from Zaun and bombs Piltover. They are in a way at war with each other. Is the US chaotic evil for bombing Iraq?

GreenLore1 votes

While Piltover and Zaun do have their differences,they are not really at war(largely because that would be a total disaster for both cities)

And the big difference lies within the motives. The us bombs the iraq for political reasons,but Jinx bombs piltover because she thinks it is fun.

GreenLore1 votes

In most cases I'd say it is rather hard to pin a champ down into one alignment. I mean where would you put Illaoi?

She tries to help people,so that is good. But her help can also kill you and she might do this against your will,so that could be seen as evil. You could also see her as morally neutral,because her actions are neither completely evil,nor completely good.

Then there is the fact that she follows the teachings of her religion,so she could be seen as lawful. But said religion basically says live your life like you want,which is chaotic. And again you could see her as neutral in this aspect as well,since she does care about her teachings to some extent,but is also said to do some rather unusual stuff as well(bringing her religion to bilgewater was her idea).

So in the end you can put Illaoi anywhere on the alignment chart.

YokoNomi1 votes

{quoted}

In most cases I'd say it is rather hard to pin a champ down into one alignment. I mean where would you put Illaoi?

She tries to help people,so that is good. But her help can also kill you and she might do this against your will,so that could be seen as evil. You could also see her as morally neutral,because her actions are neither completely evil,nor completely good.

Then there is the fact that she follows the teachings of her religion,so she could be seen as lawful. But said religion basically says live your life like you want,which is chaotic. And again you could see her as neutral in this aspect as well,since she does care about her teachings to some extent,but is also said to do some rather unusual stuff as well(bringing her religion to bilgewater was her idea).

So in the end you can put Illaoi anywhere on the alignment chart.

Chaotic Neutral

Ralanr2 votes

Lawful Neutral. To be lawful means to follow a code, even if that code isn't very lawful at all (it can get weird). Illaoi strictly follows the code of her religion, placing her in the lawful category.

Though this interpretation fails in D&D (or older versions) because you can't have a follower two alignments outside of your alignment (though her god could be true neutral) so any cult leaders for chaotic gods couldn't be lawful.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Lawful Evil.

Just a morally complex Lawful Evil. She thinks she's helping people, but "Path of evil paved with good intentions" and all that. The important bit is she takes people against their will and puts them through a magical judgment that could kill them.

She's basically a religious magical Jigsaw from the Saw series.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Is say chaotic good. She moves peoples lives along where they are in a place where they might as well had been dead. sure some people die but as i said they were in a place where they might as well have been dead anyway

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

And I think that's ridiculous. Because my life is in a rut or I'm listless that somehow means it's ok to kill me? That's horrifying. Seriously, fuck her. She does not get to decide whether my life is meaningful or not. I do.

LordGeovanni2 votes

its meant to make you move on and get your life together if you cant you die but not much of a change its not like she tests every bum she meets she looks at people and sees they can be doing better but are complacent. if you played her release mini game story with the former ship captain you could see that. it may still be in her champion bio.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

It is MY choice to get my life together or not. I don't give a fig whether she thinks the captains life as it is has worth or not.

So let me ask you this. Are you ok with some random lady with a strange religion coming to you and forcing you to undergo an existential trial to determine your life or death, without your permission? Even if she thinks she's helping.

Fuck her. Fuck Nagakaborous. That is straight up repulsive.

LordGeovanni1 votes

thats it keep applying mordern day logic to a fantasy world

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Logic is logic (and tautologies are tautologies, huzzah!).

But there are plenty of logical truths that no longer apply in fantasy settings: whether people can fly, Newton's laws, that sort of thing.

What really doesn't, is the value of life and choice. Unless the setting gets really out there in a way that LoL never has.

It's also a weird thing to bring up, since this thread was about applying a modern alignment system to the characters.

LordGeovanni1 votes

logic is a point of view or an other wise yet to be proven wrong concept. you die at the whims gods is logic. the world is flat was logic. Jerusalem (or one of the holy islamic cities) is the center or the world was logic. rome is the center of the world was logic. the Chinese Imperial Palace is the center of the world is logic. those modern alignments are based on the characters actions and what thoughts make them take it. Not personal feelings of self worth.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

That's certainly one way of putting it.

Another is using the information presented to make conclusions that are not contradicted by the information.

Which now that I think about it wasn't even what I was doing. My reasons for why Illaoi counts as evil were not based on logical postulates but on two emotional and moral arguments. Those being:

Free will is important.

And

Murder is evil.

Now murder is evil is not hard to argue. Since we're using D&D morality here and murder is at the top of their example list of evil actions.

The other, that free will is important I'm willing to argue. But you'll have to actually argue back. So far your reasoning has been my logic is bad because people hundreds of years ago thought the earth was flat. Which is either a non sequitor or a false equivalency depending on how you go with it.

GreenLore1 votes

So if you have cancer and the doctor gives you a chemo therapy,which could do more harm than good,even though you are against it,he is lawful evil?

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Am I an adult who understands the consequences of my refusal?

Did he do this once in a lapse of judgement or is this his entire way of life?

If I and others do not want the therapy and he continuously kidnaps us to force us to undergo chemo, especially when this special chemo could instantly kill us, and the cancer we have may never kill us at all. Yes, I would call the man evil.

Eternal7911 votes

Thresh Neutral Evil Thresh only really cares about inflicting pain and will turn on his allies the moment they get in the way of this (not that they would). Neutral Evil is basically just that: someone who sides with whoever and harms whoever they need to to further their own personal goals. However, thresh is very close to being chaotic evil.

Jinx Chaotic Neutral Jinx is an anarchist who loves to cause panic and blow things up because she just wants to have fun. She possibly doesn't even see a difference between good and evil or much care if there is one. Jinx would probably terrorize Piltover even if everyone there was evil. This is why I think she is chaotic neutral and not evil. Chaotic evil is when someone wants to cause harm for the sake of causing harm. Jinx just blows things up and doesn't care if people are hurt in the process, because its fun.

You can read the alignment descriptions here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)#Neutral_evil

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