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@Riot, you need to start fanservicing female players too. It can only bring revenue and popularity.

Blood Magicks··11 votes·2,159 views

First of all I would like to ask you all to take this thread seriously. What I'm trying to make here is a business suggestion as well as a personal request, one that I have also heard several gay/bi male players voice.

With the recent attention to MF/Ahri and the shameless profiteering off Sona's assets (don't get me wrong, I like it all and I understand how well sex sells) I can't help but feel that Riot is missing an opportunity.

While last year's Heartseeker Varus was beautiful and generally an effort in the right direction, it's generally not how you fanservice female geeks and gamers. To illustrate my words, I would like to attach the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toPstPIcGnI

The video has 4million views, and I'm willing to bet money 70% of those are females. Listen to the screams too. It's insane how much money Marvel's made off Tom Hiddleston's back. And it's not only them. Recent Star Wars had Kylo Ren. And let's not forget the undying Sephiroth cult. Moffat has Sherlock. And let's not mention the amount of anime that has sold just by whoring out the main character (ahem Hellsing ahem). To spell it out: hot antiheroes/bad guys with a deep backstory make male fans intrigued and female fans scream, make fanart and create many tumblr blogs, while staying endlessly devoted to the fandom.

So what does League have to tap into this fanbase? Practically nothing. Top three candidates are probably Talon, Vladimir and Malzahar (honorable mentions to Varus, Swain, Yasuo, Kassadin and recently Jhin, but they lack some of the badness/attractiveness of the top three.) The rest is beefcake meant to fit with American videogame aesthetics and teenage boy power fantasies.

So what is Riot doing with this top three? They're pretty much forgotten. Talon is conceptually bland and nobody's making any effort to change that. Vlad has the potential to attract the biggest fanbase (mixing Dracula, Alucard, Lestat, Raziel and a Noxian conspirator in one can never go badly, the same way as mixing chocolate and ice cream can't.) Malzahar's concept is insanely amazing - he's freaking Abdul Alhazred, writer of the Necronomicon, one of Lovecraft's best creations, and his theme and kit are beyond awesome. (Can't help but thank Riot for deciding to relaunch Swain though.)

Why are all three of these champions stuck in 2011? They have a reasonably big fanbase despite being neglected aesthetically and lore-wise for so long, and each has the potential to get twice the popularity Miss Fortune has.

My explanation is that Riot is plain afraid or thinks it's not a great marketing idea to do so. Riot, I think you're wrong.

40 Comments

SchaakaKon8 votes

How can you ignore the hottest male around? Brand

;)

Brahmsauce1 votes

Why is this not upvoted more.

Tohob7 votes

but does a guy have to be bad to be sexy? i see some potential for Taric here. there's also Braum and Jayce

Blood Magicks1 votes

I agree Braum is great, but it's not quite the same, just judging by the facts and figures. Something something depth moral ambiguity something.

Navarune1 votes

Jayce has a ton of potential to be developed into a "golden knight" version of his nemesis Viktor, but they haven't delivered on that just yet.

Oleandervine4 votes

I just want mindless catering and eye candy to people who like guys. Braum was a step towards that, but he's not straight up "Hot," and I'm hoping Taric's rework will make him the eye candy he deserves to be. As for your anti-hero appeal, it can be hit or miss. Kassadin definitely falls into that category, as he sacrificed himself of sorts to close the gate to the void. Albeit, he's not as slim and doesn't have the potential for sex appeal like Malzahar, but he fits your bill, more so than Malzahar, who is straight up evil. Despite this, and Yasuo, these character haven't really attracted female gamers to the game or gotten them hot and bothered, so there's clearly something deterring them from liking these characters aside from the wronged anti-hero motif. Most females I know or see playing League do just like the guys - they play the ideal looking characters with fun stories, mostly characters like Nidalee, Ahri, Lux, and Fiora. These women fit the heroic female stereotype in the way that Garen, Yi, and Darius fit the heroic male stereotype. It's hard to know what people are attracted to in a game, and I doubt 1 champ with blatant appeal to one demographic will dramatically make all that difference on the player base.

Blood Magicks3 votes

It really is a complicated set of motives, isn't it.

I know the characters we play aren't always the characters we like - for example I love Vayne, but for the life of me I can't pull off the Gosu plays, I go for long-range skillshoty characters instead. I would play play tons of her if she fit my style mechanically. That doesn't mean I don't generate tons of Vayne content, follow Vayne players, share Vayne art and squeak every time I see a Vayne ingame. And buy Vayne skins out of waifu instincts.

That said, it's the characters we like that make up a lot of our attraction to the game. I can show you countless of blogs, fanarts and fanfics dedicated to non-meta and unpopular champs just because concept-wise they're just so cool.

Also, please don't argue that the MF, Sona and Ahri fanbase does not contain lots of thirsty people. MF's appeal was the only thing making her played and popular before her rework, and now that she's both hot and strong, she's in every game. And the Sona fanservice skins that sell so well? Come on, you're not blind.

~~ I did not buy Soulstealer Vladimir to lick the loading screen where his naked chest displays.~~

Karma Deified2 votes

Can you elaborate on how a guy that fights world threatening creatures to avenge his daughter is an anti-hero?

Grashnim3 votes

Star Guardian Garen.

Oleandervine2 votes

{quoted}

Star Guardian Garen.

Also, OMG YES. I want this to happen. If Guy Gardner can become a Star Sapphire in the comic books, Garen can become a Star Guardian.

Only Play Darius3 votes

How about no?

Dominick Destine1 votes

+1

Blood Magicks3 votes

How exactly is it going to hurt you?

Only Play Darius4 votes

Fansevice skins compromise the integrity of the game when too much attention is shifted to them, and can make players uncomfortable. It's fine to have champs with sex appeal core to their theme such as with AhrI and MF because it was a part of their design. Trying to get the same effect through skins comes off as tacky.

Second, it is much harder to make a fansevice skin for women. Everyone knows what 98% of straight men like to see, hasnt changed for 300+ years. Women tend to be far more specific and finicky with their preferences, which are, as evidenced by your post, heavily influenced by trends in pop culture and Hollywood, essentially putting an unpredictable "expiration date" on the kind of skin you are asking Riot to make.

Blood Magicks3 votes

It's not you who can tell if sex-appeal was innate to the three champions I listed or not (personally I would say yes without doubt.) You seem to have some strange idea of what women find attractive and I really do not blame you, you probably have not been given an opportunity to learn. I gave Loki and Alucard as examples for very specific reasons, and honestly, do either of them look sexualized the same way Sona is, despite both being 100% fangirl bait?

Second, again, not something you have any idea about, and also League has long embraced pop culture with every second champ being either a pop culture reference or a meme. If you have a problem with that, well, stop playing.

Dehitay3 votes

I agree that it would be smart to make sexualized male skins as common as sexualized female skins, but I have no faith in Riot's ability to develop lore. The lore gets retconned so often that it's not even worth reading anymore cause there's a huge chance it's just going to change later. Pretty much any time they do a major development, there's about a 50% chance they'll invalidate previous lore. I'm still incredibly bitter about the complete 180 on Lissandra's character. She went from the potential future of Freljord's peaceful unification to an ice witch bent on domination.

Dominick Destine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=VaynexVlad OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Kv1VEWnL,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-02-03T14:42:00.082+0000)

First of all I would like to ask you all to take this thread seriously

Zero chance of that.

The game is perfectly fine and does not need changes.

It can only bring revenue and popularity.

Yes because the most played online game worldwide is clearly doing something wrong ... right?

Blood Magicks4 votes

What exactly is your problem?

Jhin UItd JFK4 votes

[{quoted}](name=VaynexVlad OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Kv1VEWnL,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-02-03T15:10:33.672+0000)

What exactly is your problem?

Sorry dude, that's God himself you're talking to! The next Faker! He's basically the best League player ever, he knows EVERYTHING about League and knows what's right for it! Hell, why isn't he a Rioter/Balance member already?

/s

Don't mind him, he's just someone who thinks he's the second coming of Jesus. I've seen him on countless threads and he gets spammed with downvotes.

Dominick Destine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=VaynexVlad OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Kv1VEWnL,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-02-03T15:10:33.672+0000)

What exactly is your problem?

That's not a very good argument.

Maybe read what I wrote again and address that instead of going for the subtle but quick ad hom.

GreenLore2 votes

Wouldn't Varus and Yasuo also fall into that category?

I mean both are quite anti-heroic and run around shirtless(they actually did remove yasuos shirt because of sexappeal),though yasuo might not be anti-hero enough to count.

Pryotra2 votes

Aatrox Draven Ekko Ezreal Graves Jayce LeeSin Lucian Malzahar Olaf Pantheon Talon Tryndamere TwistedFate Udyr Varus Vladimir XinZhao Yasuo - A good cast of mostly morally ambiguous males that have been sexualized in some fashion or another, whether via skins or just raw form.

Honestly, the reason it isn't really noticed is because, well, most of their stories have been retconned. I can't tell you the last time I was "intrigued" by any league character, because frankly none of them matter anymore. Even the ones that haven't been release I can safely say that for, because lore is so shitty right now that literally nothing in this game matters to itself, much less the audience.

I know this sounds like I'm trying to make this about lore, but here is the issue - Why would moral ambiguity matter when mages can sling the magical equivalent of nukes around? We know thanks to the Bard promo that the magic capable of leveling mountains still exists in Runeterra. Keep in mind the power to do that is likened to an atomic bomb. The league is no more - the one thing that stopped these spells from being used willy-nilly is gone, retconned. Without it, it doesn't matter if Garen and Darius brawl, because the whole field could and most likely would be leveled in an instant. The only creatures that MIGHT survive would be Cho'gath, Rek'sai, and potentially Xerath, and even then that's a HUGE maybe.

TL;DR - Characters can't be morally ambiguous when they simply don't matter. And none of League matters to anyone or anything, itself included.

Blood Magicks3 votes

Most of them are not sexualized at all tbh. Not going to start the idealized vs sexualized debate though.

Also I understand your issue. Would have included it in the OP but people are spamming about it every day and I felt it was too much to ask for in one post.

EDIT: Shirtless with bulging muscles =/= sexualized.

Pryotra1 votes

So help me understand here. What is sexualized in males? How is Vlad on your list? I didn't get it tbh, but I based my list off of the group you mentioned and your want for a bad boy archetype without being a beefcake.

And then from there, point out the ones on my list that don't make the cut, and tell me why. I garen-tee I can find a list of characters. Thing is, this game doesn't have the story depth that star wars or the marvel universe that you need to make a real Anti-hero, male or female. So if that's what the characters are really missing, then I'm afraid you won't find something to make you moist in runeterra.

Blood Magicks2 votes

Tbh seeing the downright immature and sexist reception the thread has gotten (not by everyone, but by many people) I have little desire to go through with it. Might go full dunkey. Sorry.

Pryotra1 votes

I'm sorry you felt the reception was sexist, but frankly after reading the thread I saw very little of it (outside of a few posts that got downvoted to oblivion.) Considering this is a forum that used to regularly host porn, the reception has been fairly tame.

If you ever feel up to it, feel free to respond to what sexualization is in males? If skin and form isn't it, then what is it that makes you frothy in terms of male characters? Keep in mind I'm really only trying to figure it out, and not come off as offensive.

J Eevo2 votes

Stopped reading after "Recent Star Wars had Kylo Ren"

Do you honestly think anyone went to star wars because they thought he was attractive? Hell when I was in the cinema like half of the female audience let out a sigh when he removed his helmet stating 'jeez, he looked better with the mask on'

Blood Magicks1 votes

Idk I see plenty of tumblr blogs that are super into him. Can't deny he's got weird features and he's not my type, but hey, I'm not everyone. Sherlock isn't my type and standardly attractive too, but I get the hype.

Dominick Destine4 votes

[{quoted}](name=VaynexVlad OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Kv1VEWnL,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-02-03T22:49:43.315+0000)

Idk I see plenty of tumblr blogs that are super into him.

.

I see plenty of tumblr blogs

.

plenty of tumblr blogs

.

tumblr blogs

.

tumblr

My young acquaintance, Tumblr is not a good site to get a statistically significant sample of a potential playerbase.

Karma Deified3 votes

Tumblr is not a good site

You didn't need to finish that sentence.

Only Play Darius3 votes

Can always tell someone is totally in-tune with pop culture when they use tumblr as their first piece of evidence.

Xulsigae2 votes

It depends on the culture. A shirtless guy is not taboo in Western culture and doesn't have the same implications as a shirtless lady.

Navarune1 votes

Vlad and Malzahar will be getting some attention soon with the upcoming mage update, and I'm honestly pretty stoked about their inclusion in that.

I also agree that Talon could use some love. I'm not looking at this from the exact same angle as you seem to be, as I am a heterosexual male, but nonetheless I can't help but agree.

Blood Magicks1 votes

Only gameplay updates unfortunately. Lorewise,visually, design and sound-wise they'll stay angular and unfinished.

Talon's default skin might as well be called "Definitely not Altair".

Navarune1 votes

I'm holding out hope. Graves and Miss Fortune were included in the Bilgewater event around the time the marksman rework hit, and that was a pretty heavy lore update. Riot has also mentioned that they want to do more of those types of events and include some of the lesser-touched champions. I mean, Olaf was included in the Bilgewater event....

As a sidenote, I'm disappointed you didn't mention Geralt in your list of awesome antiheroes.

Blood Magicks1 votes

Hmm, is Geralt an antihero though? I guess it depends on how you play him. Mine has always been super nice. Bookwise, he seems like a nice and merciful guy who just wants to stay out of the political mess.

Navarune1 votes

Antihero isn't necessarily a "bad" guy, just the protagonist who lacks conventional hero qualities. He's basically a mercenary, and it could also be argued that all Witchers are addicts.

Jaime Lannister also comes to mind.

Blood Magicks2 votes

I guess you're right then. Tbh I still see (and play) Geralt as too heroic for that.

Karma Deified1 votes

Have you seen the damn 8 packs on these male champs, gtfo.

On another note, stay the hell away from Malz. He's a pawn/servant/herald and a respectable one.

Oleandervine1 votes

Because he became a monster to avenge his daughter and protect his home. He's probably feared and outcast by his people because of what he is, and probably under heavy watch by officials to ensure he doesn't snap and go pure void on people. He's consistently battling that same battle internally with the darkness he took in himself while traversing the void. I'd say that qualifies as anti-hero.

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