Lore blending with the game is not the same as lore interfering with the game.

Pippin254··51 votes·3,888 views

Rant ahead.

This event has cemented my opinion that the 'old' lore was infinitely better than what we have been given since the retcon.

Ignoring every other smeg-up the lore team has done with shortened bios, et. al, I'm still shaking my head in wonder about the whole 'disable GP because he's dead' situation. How in the heck does this provide interactive lore, from the stance of a MOBA?

Take the introduction of Dominion, for example. If I recall right, there was a huge fight between Demacia and Noxus, the Summoners stopped it by putting the combatants in stasis, and turned the resulting magic found in Kalamanda into a sweet new Field of Justice. It had everything: warring factions, high-profile champions, hell, we even got Skarner out of it!

All of this was done without removing or disabling content anywhere. It gave us stories, it added a map, and we got some cool champion lore out of it.

Now let's take the new lore. Forced in-game events that are almost entirely win-centric (do I even have to explain how bad an idea that is?), and a disabled champion because he's "dead".

.....What?

This doesn't add content, it removes it. Yes, other champions exist, but when you remove one that countless like to play...what does that accomplish? Pissing off the player, and removing them from the experience. You can't do that in this kind of game.

Lore adds. Lore immerses. It does not remove or limit. It immerses the player, it doesn't limit their options when it comes to actually playing.

The fact that the lore team can't see that astounds me. But given their work since the retcon, I'm surprised they even call themselves a lore team anymore. Because what they have delivered has certainly not been lore.

Harsh, but that is what I see.

/rant

Addendum: I feel I may be pressing too hard on the lore team, in hindsight. They cannot be faulted if this is truly a balance issue. If this were primarily a story decision, made to influence lore based on stories outside of the league, then I will stand by my critique.

Side thought that came to mind: Why are events outside of the 'League' affecting those Inside the 'League' when the whole point of the retcon was to separate the 'League' and Runeterra?

59 Comments

Pyrodinium16 votes

Personally, I find the fact that you can't play Gangplank due to him being dead pretty immersive.

I don't know if this is the proper, most effective way to deliver on the story: Some people love it, some others hate it, and I think most people reacted to the news like "neat detail, but when will be able to play Gangplank again".

That being said, I think it is awesome for the Narrative team to be willing to try upon risky, radical ways to explore the world and the lore. Even if this model is proven to be inadequate, the fact that they decided to try it speaks volumes of the dedication of the team.

Also, there has not been a 'Lore team' for a long time; nowadays is the Narrative team.

sp44113 votes

I think most people reacted to the news like "neat detail, but when will be able to play Gangplank again".

Because this adds nothing to the game. Riot has COMPLETELY segregated lore from gameplay, we're just in a land of make believe rubbing characters against eachother like they're action figures. If Riot has COMPLETELY separated the game from lore, why does the game still has to be affected by lore in an adverse way, like disabling a champion for extended periods of time? It's not immersive, I don't feel like I am right there in Bilgewater watching the great Pirate King fall, I feel like Riot is taking away content I really want to access. I was pretty passionate after reading Act III and wanted to play with GP to avenge his apparent death, but nope, can't do that. The one good thing that lore should give me: Passion to play as the characters that I do, I can't use because the character in question is disabled.

Chromatic Eagle3 votes

Yeah I'm a bit disturbed at Riot's inconsistency regarding lore and gameplay.

Wyrmblade12 votes

Gangplank being dead was immersive for like an hour or so.

Now it's just making me scared that my main will get killed off and I won't be able to play him for a week.

Mecha MaIphite12 votes

He was disabled due to a bug, and it just happened to be convenient to say he died.

Pippin25410 votes

See...ugh. I mean, I'd be okay with that if they said it outright. But check the Red Tracker; every single one has said the same convoluted hocus-pocus about ships blown up and all that.

It could be, yes, but given their track record about telling us about bugs, and their steadfast refusal to acknowledge whether it is one or not....I really don't think this is the case.

If it is, more power to em'. But even if it is, the amount of clarity about a disable/bug reason is just as bad as the disable-lore reason itself.

Zenthon Prime3 votes

He was going to be disabled due to lore regardless, but I'm almost willing to bet that the reason he's still disabled is because of the bugs he had, specifically making wards invincible and infinitely stacking Draven's passive.

Anomander1 votes

^this

Hawkefire2 votes

Damn spaghetti code -.-

Mecha MaIphite3 votes

True. I was pretty confused when I first saw it, they could've at least provided a bit of context to the actual reason he was disabled. Idk why Rito-ers have been "playing along" rather than actually informing people, if he's already disabled until the bug gets fixed it's impossible for people to abuse it.

Manwalrus2 votes

There's no bug if you actually took the time to read the event page you'd know that MF blew up his ship (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/site/bilgewater/#story-3) Dead champions cannot be summoned, GP was disabled as soon as this went up as well and if they wanted to disable him due to a bug they would've done so immediately after said bug was reported reported. Why would Riot go through all this because to conceal a bug? The reason gangplank is disabled is literally featured on the website. If you read the lore you'd know that champions actually exist outside of the league in runeterra and they're summoned by summoners, unfortunately unless said champion is Karthus or Sion or some other undead champion dead (or missing) champions can't be summoned. He was disabled to go with the lore event, there's no conspiracy here.

Asdeft1 votes

{quoted}

See...ugh. I mean, I'd be okay with that if they said it outright. But check the Red Tracker; every single one has said the same convoluted hocus-pocus about ships blown up and all that.

It could be, yes, but given their track record about telling us about bugs, and their steadfast refusal to acknowledge whether it is one or not....I really don't think this is the case.

If it is, more power to em'. But even if it is, the amount of clarity about a disable/bug reason is just as bad as the disable-lore reason itself.

There was a bug where teammates could attack gangplanks barrels, but not destroy them which allowed Draven to stack and hold axes easily.

ShadyWolfe1 votes

{quoted}

See...ugh. I mean, I'd be okay with that if they said it outright. But check the Red Tracker; every single one has said the same convoluted hocus-pocus about ships blown up and all that.

It could be, yes, but given their track record about telling us about bugs, and their steadfast refusal to acknowledge whether it is one or not....I really don't think this is the case.

If it is, more power to em'. But even if it is, the amount of clarity about a disable/bug reason is just as bad as the disable-lore reason itself.

Gangplank was disabled because of a bug with Draven something about Draven being able to stack something infinitely on an ally Gangplank's barrels.

Hawkefire4 votes

The Rioters are pretty hellbent in saying otherwise. Every official post I have seen regarding it has to do with Gangplank being dead, not due to it being a bug.

That being said, it very well could be due to a bug but I must say it would be downright strange for them to constantly lie about it.

If it is due to a bug, then Riot should just come out and say it already (and they should give us a bit of a progress update on it as well). If it isn't then Riot should re-enable gangplank because he has been disabled for too damn long.

NorthernDruid10 votes

See, the logic to find here. Is that for some reason when the game puts restraints on it's story it's a bad nasty thing which makes writers cry. But when the story is used to interfere with the game then it's for some reason innovative and should be praised.

/sarcasm (discalimer: use of sarcasm may not be fully over)

It's really just hypocrisy on the side of Riot's storytellers. They don't want to have to bother with the details of a story they either don't know very well or just straight up don't like, so they claim creative freedom and distancing the story from the game in the most counter-innovative way possible in order to get to tell the story they want using the same names and base character concepts/archetypes. Then they turn around and push the story into the game to be innovative.

Y'know what was innovative? Casting a match in-setting.

Was it somewhat clumsily done? maybe. Would I mind if they remade the match and just in general cleaned up some of the wonkiness and rough edges here and there? not as long as the main beats and details remained the same.

Was it more honest than claiming factual errors about your own story in order to justify scrapping it? hell yes.


To date they haven't come forth with a single Idea which wouldn't have worked in the old lore. The only problems that you could understand were gross factual errors of their part (either through their own ignorance or an attempt to decieve their consumers, pick whether you want incompetent storytellers or malicous (probably too harsh a word but I can't be bothered to find the correct one) ones?).

I really ought to make a post/thread to cross-reference the JoJ and that dev-blog, just to make it more visible, and easier to sound less like a rabid fanboy.

I miss the lore that made me really get into the game. For years now i've longed for a game with half as thorough gameplay/story integration, and I really loved the setting premise, as well as the general style of storytelling, the Judgements the JoJ, the VOs, even the really heartfelt though semi-amateurish acting in the Noxus vs Ionia match... All of that made it more than just a story or a collection of stories. It made it a world.

Now they've made a full 180 degree turn in what kind of story they wanna tell and what they want to focus on. I don't even know if the setting premise of de/reconstructing war-scale battle magic is standing or if the rune wars went out with the IoW. Atleast I know that the thorough gameplay/story integration is out the window... except apparently for when they decide to have aspects of the game be interfered with to reflect the story they're telling at the moment.

I feel somewhat cheated to be honest. And it doesn't help that they tried lying to me (or just were incompetent at their jobs) about their reasons for doing so.

Season 9 Amumu2 votes

i agree. one other thing is that the nations dont seem to be that impactful anymore. they all seem to just kinda be there. with the iow they seemed to have a lot of influence individually, now they are kind of just there.

PenguinOverlord88 votes

To me it just seems kind of gimmicky.... Oh look he's dead....that's it.

SAPIAS PUGNANTIS7 votes

We have no idea what Rito's planning with the dead/disabled Gangplank. He is sure to return, and I am almost 100% certain that his return will bring some new content. There'll be a story for sure and possibly some new lore and new webpage content (such as some nice art and music).

Celio Hogane HD3 votes

and when that happens i will be ready (all act icons in my pocket, yellow card all the way!)

Tahyana13 votes

The lack of consistency gets me. If I remember correctly, during Shurima, when Cassi killed Sivir, Sivir was not disabled. Imho, if they knew this was going to happen to Gangplank , they should have done it to Sivir during Shurima.

Celio Hogane HD4 votes

Yes they should have, i agree.

AND if you remember, a lot of rioters talked about how shurima event was a fail and they want to make this one way better (Wich they did)

And to be completelly especific, Sivir didn't die, just get stabbed in the back

Delioth2 votes

Yeah... Sivir lived. Azir made sure of that.

Pyrrhos7 votes

True, but there was some in between time when those parts weren't released. One video ended saying Sivir died, and the next said the blood restored Azir and he saved her.

Nefas10 votes

Some lore blurbs or any of the things you mentioned don't come close to making up for him being disabled for days during a Bilgewater centric event. At least for me. All I'll remember about this event months from now will be how you couldn't play one of the iconic Bilgewater champs during it.

Tahyana2 votes

I agree. I lot of people will remember that. I had just gotten GP week before, and I was disappointed I didn't to play him.

Xonra2 votes

{quoted}

Some lore blurbs or any of the things you mentioned don't come close to making up for him being disabled for days during a Bilgewater centric event. At least for me. All I'll remember about this event months from now will be how you couldn't play one of the iconic Bilgewater champs during it.

And now all you will remember is how they disabled him, only to bring him back during the Bilgewater event to never been seen as a Pirate again (outside of skins).

Not sure which I would prefer really. Both options are crap.

Dies to Wolves7 votes

"hey guys, we've got a big surprise coming for you, you guys will love it! Just wait!"

3 months later

"just a little bit longer!"

5 months later

"OK GUYS! YOU'LL LOVE THIS! We've used all our creative juices on this, it's very cool! We retconned league and butchered the lore in the process of doing so! awesome, right?! Now the game is Super Smash Brothers, with much less iconic and unknown characters! yay!"

boo

"hrm... The game is now divorced from lore, but apparently not everyone in the player base liked that!!!1! I know, I have a genious idea, they will love it, let's 'kill' (ha) a character in the story and disable him in game because of that! Even though we specifically said the game has nothing to do with what is currently happening in lore, let's make people unable to play that character for a week because of 'lore'! I'm SURE the playerbase will love it!"


dunno, that's kinda how I imagine their narrative team thinks

Bloodhawk956 votes

"Guys lets give GP a full rework, THEN DISABLE HIM"

Hawkefire5 votes

I don't mind them disabling GP for a day or 2, but when it hits 3+ days then things have started getting excessive.

It was cool at first, but now its gotten old, and I just want to play GP.

Vellich0r4 votes

soon the gangplank mains, all 12 of them, will get tired of riots shit and launch a cannon barrage against riot HQ! Sadly, GP was disabled before they got enough silver serpents for deaths daughter, so it seems they will only be doing peanut damage to a full HP Rito.

Shíny4 votes

Essentially, it means that the game and story aren’t one-to-one copies of each other. League as a game is about creating awesome gameplay, while League as a story is about creating deep, vibrant characters and factions inhabiting an expansive world. We don’t want to limit story because of gameplay, **just like we wouldn’t limit gameplay because of story **– we want both of them (and all the other elements of League) to have the freedom to be as great as they possibly can be.

Even riot agrees with you.

Silver Aegis3 votes

I'll like to add that they put hella work into GP's rework just to kill him a week later. if that's not waste of money, I don't know what is. What can be assumed is that he is coming back. No company would spend all that money an time on an event and a main character in it and just scrap it.

Nefas2 votes

Well said.

Kuroi862 votes

He's disabled due to a bug, Riot isn't admitting to it for some reason and is using lore to hide the fact. This isn't lore interfering with the game.

Xulsigae2 votes

Jaerdan has said they were planning on his disabling for the duration of his 'death' for months. So no, this is not because of a bug. That is a coincidence.

Kuroi861 votes

It's a coincidence that a potentially game breaking bug has kept GP disabled longer than expected?

Xulsigae1 votes

I'm only going off of what Jaerdan says. Ask him.

AtheosisX1 votes

I strongly suspect that the fact he's been disabled so long is due to bugs, even if the disabling during the event was planned.

Xulsigae1 votes

That might be so, but that doesn't change that he was planned to be disabled at first.

The Bearded Bard2 votes

I just always find it funny how many 'mains' of a champion seem to pop up when said champion is disabled. Quit your bitching, most of you have never even played Gangplank/whatever other currently disabled champion that you're complaining about.

Honestly I've had at least five games horribly lost simply because GP offered nothing to the team. He's like Nasus in the way that he's absent from any part of the game that isn't farming minions for about 30 minutes, except unlike Nasus he offers very little for a team. Bad champion is bad, I don't miss him.

Pippin2544 votes

You miiight want to look at my profile. Don't even own the guy.

I recognize your point, and I do speak from a perspective of "holy shit, if this were my main, I'd be swallowing iron and spitting bullets." I probably should quit my bitching, honestly. Just wanted to get a rant off the ol' chest.

The Bearded Bard2 votes

{quoted}

You miiight want to look at my profile. Don't even own the guy.

I recognize your point, and I do speak from a perspective of "holy shit, if this were my main, I'd be swallowing iron and spitting bullets." I probably should quit my bitching, honestly. Just wanted to get a rant off the ol' chest.

I guess I don't get it because, while I do have a main, I don't exclusively play that champion. I call them my main because they're my most played, my favorite, and my best, but if they were disabled I'd simply play other champions.

Hiemdol2 votes

I personally do not own Gangplank. I did not like him before the rework and, while I haven't gotten a change to find out how the changes effect my feelings, I think I will stick to other champions.

That being said what irritates me about this is the precedent being set by Riot. Lets say they have a Piltover event where Jinx Caitlyn and Vi all 'die' in an explosion. I would be out my two best ADCs and my most played jungler. True that I would have 123 other champions to play, but even if they were only disabled for a week I would effectively be banned from ranked for that week. That is not immersive, just annoying. I don't want that to happen to me so I can not say in all fairness it is OK for that to happen to people who want to play Gangplank.

Another perspective to look at it from is a new player. Gangplank is a mechanically simple champion from an easy to reach price point. Players from the level ranges of 5-20 have not yet played enough to have a diversified champion pool. Any newer player with Gangplank now might have a significant portion of their champion pool disabled. Hardly an incentive to keep playing if they find Riot will just take away their champions for no better reason than lore they have not yet played enough to be invested in.

Your argument of just going to play other champions also disregards any financial aspects of Gangplank being disabled. Skins cost money. At any point in Riots history when a player acquires a skin it is done so with the knowledge they will have access to it from then on with the standing exception of being when a champion is selectively disabled due to a game breaking bug.

Is Riot now saying they will take away our ability to use products we have paid for because they believe it enhances their story telling? That is not something I am comfortable supporting as their are many games (read nearly all) that would not make this kind of statement.

Ultimately there is more going on to Gangplanks death than 'he will be re-activated so don't worry'. A lot of which even as someone who does not play Gangplank take issue with.

insaiyanbacca2 votes

And here I was hoping to get my rank 5 gp mastery :c

Onacaz1 votes

I need my gangplank back and after spending so much time re working him just to get rid of him virtually immediately it doesn't make any sense

EvilMerodach1 votes

I have a feeling their original plan was to disable him shortly, then re-enable with only using Spooky GP (if you looked him up on your champions page a couple days ago, the only skin visible was his spooky one.) But then bugs were found. (Draven passive, wards, and anyone with item 3093 could just get free money forever.) So they left him disabled and just kept to the lore reason, because it was the reason. Just unintentionally as long as it was.

Either way, free game, Riot can do what they want. I personally like it.

Also, for everyone saying "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE GP MAINS, THEY CAN'T RANKED NOW CAUSE OF THIS?!?!1one" He was remade pretty heavily, so, if you were a gp main, you basically have to learn a new champ anyway.

Old Sion is still permanently disabled. What about people who mained him before remake? I feel like remaking a champ, then disabling them has about as much effect on ranked as just remaking a champ. Were people complaining that much about Sion remake and why old Sion isn't around any longer? Because anyone who mained him in ranked basically just had to start over and find a new champ to play. Same with old GP now. Having a week break between doesn't really matter much. Learn some other champs. You'll have to relearn GP too anyway when he's back.

Season 9 Amumu1 votes

i agree, i just dont like the new style of lore they are going for. sure the depth is refreshing, as is seems that they actually seem to care but its just totally different in terms of approach. overall the old lore was way more conducive for creating an interesting game world that actually provided support for said game in the worlds context. in the old lore, gp is a LEGENDARY pirate, now he is a pirate that dies?

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