I'm done with the Lore

Stars Shaper·1/25/2019, 12:05:41 PM·9 votes·2,856 views

Can't stand the visible bias that writers put into how they display nations. I wanted to wait to see kayle and Morgana ones but at this point I'm sure that nothing decent can come out. If you don't like Bilgewater or Noxus, or even worse you happen to like Demacia then this isn't a place for you.

Demacia keeps losing anything good it had in order to make it more and more either a <removed by moderation> or ORwellian nation in favor of the nations that in reality would be a hell pit to live in, full of abuses and such.

I'm really disappointed with the Lore team, you had a good universe, you told us you wanted to give more of a grey shade to Noxus and Demacia and you ended up with a lazy switch of the roles where Noxus are the good guys and Demacia is just a totalitarian state.

Shame on you.

Edit: And if you are so good at downvoting then waste your time to write a comment with some arguments, if you have none means I'm right.

53 Comments

ModKnightsKemplar1/25/2019, 3:33:16 PM6 votes

Nearly everyone I know that LOVES Demacia feels this way, and most everyone else disagrees. I will attempt to unpack this and you can tell me what you think.

It seems to me that most of the people that were super pro-Demacia were making an awful lot of assumptions. The appeal of Demacia, to them, was that the state appeared to be a kind of a Utopian Switzerland. There has been this core assumption that life for Demacians was peaceful and happy, from top to bottom.

The thing is, the lore team never said that. YEARS ago, when people were making arguments about this, I was super skeptical. To me, Demacia seemed to embody a classic aristocracy-ruled society. Of course the leaders were better off than the commoners, and of course it wasn't all perfect for the entire nation. They had to fight wars with Noxus, at minimum, which is going to cause a substantial drain on resources, including the lives of citizens.

The fact that Noxus was highlighting its meritocratic elements meant, by contrast, that the other nations didn't have those. That means Demacia isn't meritocratic. It's ruled by a nobility that doesn't want the status quo upset. This undertone has always been there for people who were looking for it, it's just that all of our champions were from Demacian nobility. Garen, Lux, Lucian, Vayne, Sona... these are all champions with means. They dress and behave as though they have means. What Riot did, effectively, was try to hint to us that there were issues in Demacia below the surface.

The God-King VS event was the first time Riot pseudo-confirmed this for me. Darius and Garen, in that universe, were extrapolated to the most extreme version of themselves. And it made me say "huh" when people didn't expect that Garen would have become a tyrant. To those of us who aren't super in love with Demacia, this was an obvious and fitting direction. Peace in exchange for freedom; freedom in exchange for peace. People who are well-versed in political philosophy know that's the underlying dynamic of government in the first place. It's not controversial to base a couple of skins off of that classic tension. That's the world that all of us live in today, as well. Striking a balance between those two extremes is what makes governing autonomous human beings difficult. Every security requires a loss of some freedom, however small.

Sylas isn't Riot saying "Demacia sucks, everything there is terrible." It's Riot fleshing out their complicated world by dropping in one Demacian who isn't happy with the current arrangement. And his story made it clear why he wasn't. The Demacian nobles know, ostensibly, that it isn't fair to kill all mages to keep their nation safe. It's a trade that they have been wiling to make, a necessary sacrifice. And any time you moral dilemma like that, it's simply good storytelling to drop in characters who challenge that. Sylas is such a character. Now we have a Demacian champion who isn't nobility, and as s result, we're getting a different perspective on the nation.

I think it's an overreaction to say that Riot has ruined Demacia. It's more Demacian that it has ever been. Just as Noxus became more Noxus than ever when Swain was released. Now we know why Swain is trying to take over everything (vaguely). He sees a future threat, maybe from the Void, that will wipe out humanity, and he will sacrifice other nations to unify us against that threat. Noxus is still the conqueror, and Demacia is still standing up to them. The dynamic hasn't changed, it has just become more realistic. If it gets under your skin a little... good! That's kind of what it's supposed to do. Life is complicated, and good storytelling should reflect that.

SEKAI1/25/2019, 12:54:48 PM4 votes

This is a comment I wrote in another thread on the supposed "constant glorification of Ionia", which I'd strongly disagreed with this post.

{quoted}

What do you mean, everything any remotely good comes with a bad catch that's far bigger than the good part these days as per Riot's submission to """morally grey""".

Ionia is of no difference, the only thing good about it is that the land looks pretty, and everything is literally complete dumpster fire because of Riot's logic in writing. Ionia is constantly portrayed as a shallow beauty, akin to an apple that looks nice on the outside but is rotten to the core beyond its thin skin. Similarly, that's the how the writing goes with any region on Runeterra that has a positive imagery, Demacia for instance, also suffer greatly from this "writing".

After all, this is """morally grey""" we're talking about here. The most low-effort attempt at adding nuance, which meant that they just wrote "good is actually bad; bad is actually good" and pretend it actually means any depth.

If you want the actual Runeterra region where it is showered in constant glorification, you should really look at places such as Noxus. It is the nation that's almost the manifestation of invasion and pillage of others filled with stories of nasty violence, shady schemes, and exploitation of the defence-less. But ofc, in the languages of """morally grey""" they are actually pretty fine gents and all of their very blatant pitfall are constantly excused and whitewashed by Riot's writers at every turn.

Ionia isn't the one receiving constantly glorification, in fact all they've gotten in the past many years is beatdown after beatdown. The one that's Riot's baby is in fact, places like Noxus.

I think it is also very relevant for Demacia (which was also mentioned in the quoted post).

All in all, the ever-cheap """morally grey""" ruins writing, just as it did with Blizzard's.

Blizzard's writing, outside of a few instances of utter brilliance, has always been average given they've been rehashing and cannibalising their own stories again and again for the last 2 decades. But what really killed it has been because of their subscription to """morally grey""". Hopefully they are starting to realise it now, and if Riot would too.

4 Step Cadence1/25/2019, 12:45:06 PM4 votes

Noxus: Hey, you see that archipelago over there inhabited mostly by unarmed civilians/farmers with limited technology? Lets go fuck them up. If they don't join us, burn them alive. Nuke them with chemical weapons. Anything to show them they picked the wrong side.

Demacia: So we form a lynch mob every time we see someone doing something magical, but we don't question some of our elite's more magical abilities. Good times.

DerMangoJoghurt1/25/2019, 12:39:54 PM4 votes

I'm wondering how many people actually support the Mageseekers in Demacia. In every story we have so far (unless I'm forgetting something), mages were protected by their families or friends. Even Demacia's own prince has a half-dragon in his guard.

I think most people are suspicious of mages, but only a small fraction of them would actually do mages any harm because of the way they were born.

ModPeriscope1/25/2019, 4:47:08 PM3 votes

I've removed the nazi reference, as such references tend to derail threads.

As a reminder to all, please keep your comments respectful and try to be constructive with them as well.

Thanks.

If you have any questions about this moderation, feel free to reach out to us in the Boards Discord.

Fasmodey1/25/2019, 12:20:58 PM3 votes

It is Sylas' perspective, what did you expect? Like really, even the narrator of video is Sylas...

Lore of league is not told by god-view. Just wait and see. After that you can complain.

ThreshHub1/25/2019, 12:15:04 PM3 votes

Noxus is still far from the good guys. They are still a spartan-like nation that favours strength over morals. Demacians weren't nice guys either. It was just made more obvious now with Sylas. Lux is exiled and didn't suffer a same fate as Sylas only because of her royal blood.

Psyrix1/25/2019, 1:22:45 PM2 votes

I’d say wait a little while, Demacia is supposed to have a lore shake up happening soon (after Sylas’) release... so might not be tied to him... I’m thinking it’ll likely be released close to the Morg/Kayle rework.
I honestly did like the new angle Riot went with Demacia and Noxus... However they really do need to build upon it more. The recent stories for Vladimir etc did help, xD tho more Black Rose stories will be greatly appreciated, in general Noxus is less at fault than Demacia in terms of lore progress, and that’s because Noxus has had development as well as internation interaction. We know that Noxus isn’t evil at heart, just heavily structured around the strong having the rights. Demacia on the other hand has had a much more “United” storyline, that and the fact it hasn’t been updated in quite a while cements the most recent events as what the majority of the city comprises... and for now it’s hatred/fear of magic. But I argue that that’s changing, what with Jarvan IV’s storyline and even Sylas’. The new monarchy, if he actually isn’t Leblanc in disguise, is much more open minded. We know it’s the capital that actually enforces the heavy handedness on mages/magic. The other provinces are much more accepting as it often becomes a necessity to survive.

What Riot now needs to show is more storylines that highlight the positive facets of Demacian life. Because there are... it is heavily focused on patriotism and unity.

On another thread, I hoped Riot would get more complex with its nations and to an extent they did... my hope it’d be with Ionia, which to an extent they did to be fair.... however I’d thought it’d play along the lines of using Syndra... her original lore gave allusions to the Ionian Elders not being as benevolent as would first appear, this created multiple theories, several of which made sense. (Elders being jealous of her power, them being scared of it, them stealing it to help against the invasion etc.). Now that’s been retconned (and in such a way that it undeniably paints Syndra in a complete negative light rather than misunderstood and understandable lashing out). The conflict in Ionia is between stagnancy and adaptation/aggression.

Camille Ferrøs1/25/2019, 2:22:21 PM2 votes

What made you this disappointed ¿

SwainxLeBlanc1/25/2019, 12:19:26 PM2 votes

[deleted]

General Matty1/25/2019, 12:44:28 PM2 votes

Lol this thread turned into a shitshow.