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Someone who only plays league would never know Noxus is not evil

N Jenkins·8/24/2019, 6:22:02 PM·8 votes·5,770 views

I know this has been brought up many many many times, but i feel like i have to say it, if for nothing else but my own sanity. But i will start by saying that Noxus is definitely not evil. Mostly cuz an entire nation dedicated to evil would be impossible to maintain. But yeah, Noxus is generally accepting, Survival of the fittest kind of state who has been dealt a bad geographical hand and is thus forced to expand to get resources.

The issue is that someone who actively plays league, but doesn't read that much lore would never know this. No, even worse, they would have no reason to believe Noxus is nothing more than murderers and assholes who drink blood and worship the devil. Most of the champions of Noxus enjoy killing, and those that are completely fine with it without a single thought. The only champions who do not fit this are (who is corrupted and thus kills without mercy) and (who is not even in Noxus anymore.) is the only champ i could believe is not 100% evil based on his dialogue, looks and character he portrays in game alone.

The reason this is an issue is that it feels like a huge wasted opportunity, and that Riot cannot come up with anything about Noxus that does not involve war. At best, this makes the nation come off as incredibly one note. At worst, it actively goes against what riot says about Noxus not being evil. Basically, it comes across as Riot saying: "Noxus is totally not evil. We are never gonna show it though but it totes exist, like for real".

Basically what i'm saying is that, If Noxus is truly not evil....put your money where your mouth is and show us that, in game. Anybody else agree? If i'm alone in this i accept that. You do you.

Ps: Don't use the "nobody is truly evil" line as defense for this. That's a poor excuse and avoids answering the question.

38 Comments

Arakadia8/24/2019, 10:58:45 PM6 votes

If someone were to actually read the lore, they will realize Noxus is not completely evil and Demacia is not completely good. However you do bring up that if you aren't a lore geek, most people (my friends are examples of this personally) tassume Noxus = bad guys. Demacia = good guys. I know a friend who is a gold Jhin main that thought Jhin was from Noxus because Noxus = bad guys and Jhin = bad guy.

This issue is a lot more difficult to solve because Riot has honed the visual language for Demacia to be an angelic and noble mix of white, blue, and gold and the visual language for Noxus to be harsh black, grey, and reds. Not to mention most of Demacia, with exceptions, is made up of honorable do-gooders while the vast majority of Noxian characters (even ones raised in Ionia like Kayn) are not so nice. Like to list off the more iconic Noxians, there is a power hungry evil sorceress who manipulates the world, an undead berserk whose only purpose is war, their main leader uses demon magic, and multiple assassins. Meanwhile the more iconic Demacians are a noble and brave knight, a kind and compassionate light mage, a kind and honorable prince/king warrior, and a literal fucking angel.

And so while it makes sense for Noxians to be pragmatic and ambitious, and that they should have their own visual language, Riot hasn't exactly pulled them out of the ditch that is "bad guys". I think they've done a better job with Demacia which has more complicated characters like Sylas, Kayle, Vayne, and Lucian, but Riot hasn't really done much visually to communicate that Noxus isn't objectively evil.

SEKAI8/25/2019, 7:22:51 AM4 votes

Mostly cuz an entire nation dedicated to evil would be impossible to maintain.

I'm sure this argument bodes well when US and UK and their strong legacy of imperialism exist irl. Just do what US and UK etc etc do/did, pretend they're the beacon of hope and justice while colonising everyone else with supreme violence in the name of "civilising the savage" or "freedom" and whatever buzzwords they can conjure. That's 1 way to maintain a nation built on doing every evil things they can. Hell Nazi Germany did that too and was pretty good at it hence WW2, but ofc as it turns out we also have no shortage of Nazi sympathisers even today (and in fact is on the rise, which is quite concerning).

Noxus is a supreme expansionist nation hellbent on pillaging others as much as they can. The nation was initially conceptualised after the historical Rome Empire and Mongol Empire, which is even down to the usage of biological weapon (used against Ionia during their invasion of the land) which was used by Mongol during their sieges in present day Crimea in 1346 and was credited as the cause of the Black Death crisis in Europe. As far as everyone is concerned, Noxus is evil to everyone besides itself, and even then due to its meritocracy culture all generals can employ their own methods to conquest and some of them fashion themselves to be evil monsters even to the nation's own citizens, employing deadly methods not below forced child soldiers or you know, dropping the biochem weapon indiscriminately even onto their own soldiers.

Noxus also, does not hide the fact that their nation is evil. This is why the best they get to propaganda is that they dress their motto as something along the lines of "strong can rule the weak", which is still objectively evil, and they revel in it pretty hard. At least Noxus is honest, is the best compliment we can give to the nation (which we often can't give to mentioned irl nations that still exists or had existed).

However, given many of the players or writers at Riot are from real-world US and whatnot who have been conditioned by their nation's constant bombardment of whitewashing propaganda that their nation is supposedly doing good work for their non-stop evil deeds, so the readers and writers themselves often just jump into the Noxus' defence on their own. The fictional Noxians often already see themselves as evil but simply rationalise it with the "dog eat dog" worldview; and this comes into stark contrast when real-life readers and writers often come from the angle of interpreting or writing Noxus as supposedly never evil in the first place. That's quite sad if you think about it.

Febos8/24/2019, 6:28:09 PM3 votes

Noxus was "evil" and Demacia was "good". Then everything changed when the Lore Nation attacked. Pretty much how it goes.

Noxus is by far my favourite faction.

GayrensTari8/25/2019, 2:31:26 PM3 votes

O ya there is no abusulote evil or good, but noxas is still the dark one. They are programed to kill and conquer, they don't protect.

N Jenkins8/25/2019, 12:55:53 PM3 votes

Personally i would be fine if Noxus was still just evil. Nothing wrong with that, this is fiction. It's the inconsistency that i get frustrated about.

The Anagram King8/25/2019, 4:33:50 PM2 votes

When the old lore was retconned, the quality dropped almost instantaneously. Sure, characters and factions were fleshed out - complete with paragraphs of flavour stories and info dumps. However, one-dimensional tropes replaced what were once mildly nuanced or non-committal character personalities (including in rework designs and VOs) and simplistic childlike morality/PoVs were used to - I assume - appeal to a wider market.

Basically, Riot took already established ideas and then implemented a writing101 approach to them, giving people unnecessary and skin-deep flaws or zany tropes as a way of adding 'complexity' to an otherwise blatant: "This guy = bad guy, his faction = bad faction."

Ie: Damacia is a beacon of hope and justice... but what if there's TOO much justice? Sometimes soldiers don't like it! Noxus is bad and preys on the weak... but look how strong they are! See? Now they're not totally bad! Zaun is full of criminals and terrorists... but citizens live there too! Everyone needs to make a living! Piltover is amazing and perfect... but gosh they sure are egotistical, right? And I mean, Zaun's underneath it now so rich people are probably being bad!

etc.

Not being condescending, but League ads are definitely aiming for really young kids. When it comes to a younger playerbase, simpler and tropier is considered better. It's just easier for them to digest.

Pika Fox8/26/2019, 11:07:51 PM2 votes

They arent "Evil" because "Evil" isnt a thing that generally exists for existence's sake. Theyre "Evil" because they commit atrocities in the name of furthering their beliefs. Demacia is also "Evil". Even looking at the real world, youd be very hard pressed to find a country whos government has not committed heinous atrocities within the last 5 to 10 years; hell, most cant even go a month or two.

GreenLore8/26/2019, 10:41:46 AM2 votes

Honestly I don't think this is a problem. Noxus was originally just "the bad guys"-faction and riot has been working on subverting that, by showing that even though Noxus is very rough, it isn't all bad and there are advantages to live in Noxus, that other nations don't really have.

However I think it is an enjoyable experience to see Noxus as just the bad guys at first, and then find out that it does have its good sides too.

Meep Man8/28/2019, 12:16:51 AM1 votes

Noxus is the "Horde" of the League universe. Dealt a bad hand and forced to find new land to really get the resources they need, they are forced to war with others. However, this kind of life style DOES attract the negative and evil type. An empire where expansion and therefore war is common is a breeding ground for the iffy types, especially a place like Noxus where the only rule is that strength rules. This doesn't mean that Noxus is evil, but the climate of Noxus molds its people into warriors that, to an outsider, are evil. Noxus makes you ask a lot of questions about morality and should be a perfect example of somewhere where just because its most notable inhabitants of history were questionable doesnt mean the empire itself is evil.

Ebonmaw Dragon8/25/2019, 11:02:31 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=N Jenkins,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=G7d0g2FE,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-08-24T18:22:02.206+0000)

is the only champ i could believe is not 100% evil based on his dialogue, looks and character he portrays in game alone.

Well, he was the last champion from noxus that got reworked... so it makes sense that the next champions from Noxus will follow that path.

GayrensTari8/26/2019, 5:44:38 PM1 votes

Garen Garen :"You are still my angel, Sheild of Valoran, meanwhile, Noxian scums!" Druis Darius :"SHUT UP! You don't even know the real way to use Sheild of Valoran!" ... Garen Garen :"Tell me babe! I wanna know the real way to use Sheild of Valoran!" Taric Taric :" Ahem...I'm shy..."(blushing)

Crimson Zeppelin8/26/2019, 10:55:48 PM1 votes

Also it seems refugees of the magic sort end up there in Noxus. Does everyone remember the Karthus lore? He was in a religious order in one of the Noxus slums, but he managed to keep to community happy enough even deaths is lurking on every corner. I think this is one of the worst places you can be in Noxus but you are NOT doomed.

But well in Demacia and you get the short end of the stick purely by bad luck, you will be locked up forever or killed just for the sake of it for no reason.