Someone who only plays league would never know Noxus is not evil

N Jenkins·Aug 24, 2019·8 votes·5,770 views

I know this has been brought up many many many times, but i feel like i have to say it, if for nothing else but my own sanity. But i will start by saying that Noxus is definitely not evil. Mostly cuz an entire nation dedicated to evil would be impossible to maintain. But yeah, Noxus is generally accepting, Survival of the fittest kind of state who has been dealt a bad geographical hand and is thus forced to expand to get resources.

The issue is that someone who actively plays league, but doesn't read that much lore would never know this. No, even worse, they would have no reason to believe Noxus is nothing more than murderers and assholes who drink blood and worship the devil. Most of the champions of Noxus enjoy killing, and those that are completely fine with it without a single thought. The only champions who do not fit this are (who is corrupted and thus kills without mercy) and (who is not even in Noxus anymore.) is the only champ i could believe is not 100% evil based on his dialogue, looks and character he portrays in game alone.

The reason this is an issue is that it feels like a huge wasted opportunity, and that Riot cannot come up with anything about Noxus that does not involve war. At best, this makes the nation come off as incredibly one note. At worst, it actively goes against what riot says about Noxus not being evil. Basically, it comes across as Riot saying: "Noxus is totally not evil. We are never gonna show it though but it totes exist, like for real".

Basically what i'm saying is that, If Noxus is truly not evil....put your money where your mouth is and show us that, in game. Anybody else agree? If i'm alone in this i accept that. You do you.

Ps: Don't use the "nobody is truly evil" line as defense for this. That's a poor excuse and avoids answering the question.

38 Comments

ArakadiaAug 24, 20196 votes

If someone were to actually read the lore, they will realize Noxus is not completely evil and Demacia is not completely good. However you do bring up that if you aren't a lore geek, most people (my friends are examples of this personally) tassume Noxus = bad guys. Demacia = good guys. I know a friend who is a gold Jhin main that thought Jhin was from Noxus because Noxus = bad guys and Jhin = bad guy.

This issue is a lot more difficult to solve because Riot has honed the visual language for Demacia to be an angelic and noble mix of white, blue, and gold and the visual language for Noxus to be harsh black, grey, and reds. Not to mention most of Demacia, with exceptions, is made up of honorable do-gooders while the vast majority of Noxian characters (even ones raised in Ionia like Kayn) are not so nice. Like to list off the more iconic Noxians, there is a power hungry evil sorceress who manipulates the world, an undead berserk whose only purpose is war, their main leader uses demon magic, and multiple assassins. Meanwhile the more iconic Demacians are a noble and brave knight, a kind and compassionate light mage, a kind and honorable prince/king warrior, and a literal fucking angel.

And so while it makes sense for Noxians to be pragmatic and ambitious, and that they should have their own visual language, Riot hasn't exactly pulled them out of the ditch that is "bad guys". I think they've done a better job with Demacia which has more complicated characters like Sylas, Kayle, Vayne, and Lucian, but Riot hasn't really done much visually to communicate that Noxus isn't objectively evil.

N JenkinsAug 24, 20194 votes

{quoted}

If someone were to actually read the lore, they will realize Noxus is not completely evil and Demacia is not completely good. However you do bring up that if you aren't a lore geek, most people (my friends are examples of this personally) tassume Noxus = bad guys. Demacia = good guys. I know a friend who is a gold Jhin main that thought Jhin was from Noxus because Noxus = bad guys and Jhin = bad guy.

This issue is a lot more difficult to solve because Riot has honed the visual language for Demacia to be an angelic and noble mix of white, blue, and gold and the visual language for Noxus to be harsh black, grey, and reds. Not to mention most of Demacia, with exceptions, is made up of honorable do-gooders while the vast majority of Noxian characters (even ones raised in Ionia like Kayn) are not so nice. Like to list off the more iconic Noxians, there is a power hungry evil sorceress who manipulates the world, an undead berserk whose only purpose is war, their main leader uses demon magic, and multiple assassins. Meanwhile the more iconic Noxians are a noble and brave knight, a kind and compassionate light mage, a kind and honorable prince/king warrior, and a literal fucking angel.

And so while it makes sense for Noxians to be pragmatic and ambitious, and that they should have their own visual language, Riot hasn't exactly pulled them out of the ditch that is "bad guys". I think they've done a better job with Demacia which has more complicated characters like Sylas, Kayle, Vayne, and Lucian, but Riot hasn't really done much visually to communicate that Noxus isn't objectively evil.

Exactly my thoughts. This is kinda like suddenly changing Mordor from being bad guys to "morally grey" people, without actually changing any of the people there.

No, this is infact even worse than that, cuz the two noxians who have gotten reworks and such...are still objectively evil, power hungry and murderers. Once again the "Noxus is totally not evil, for realsies". At this point i just don't believe you, cuz even when you have a chance to make your characters less evil, you don't. In fact, cuz of the noxian champions, i sorta am starting to believe the claims of Noxus not being evil was in fact, Written by Noxian's as propaganda! (yeah that's probably not true but it makes more sense than this!)

Also funny thing? I also thought Jhin was from noxus, until i realized he used a gun. Noxus don't use guns.

ArakadiaAug 25, 20193 votes

Very much agree.

Additionally the ONE champion who was supposed to be a "see? not all Noxians are evil murderers", Riven, has effectively 0 visual tie to Noxus. And rather than proving that not all Noxians are evil, she is actually proof that Noxus is pretty evil and she only became a "good guy" after she fucking left Noxus. So the only Noxian who isn't an evil murder is the one who completely disassociated herself with them.

N JenkinsAug 25, 20193 votes

Nailed it on the head. The only good "noxian" champion only further cements noxian as evil.

If Noxus is not evil...then clearly showing that is nowhere near as important as just saying that.

IlyaK1986Aug 26, 20193 votes

Each individual Noxian may or may not be evil. That'd be like saying each and every German in WW2 was evil. Well, no. Erwin Rommel wasn't evil, nor was the dude in Valkyrie that tried to kill Hitler. German ace Adolf Galland wasn't evil, either. But Nazi Germany very much was evil.

Same deal with Noxus. It's trying to take over the world, and it isn't in any way benevolent to anyone outside its borders. It's pretty evil outside of "kill everything first, no questions asked".

ArakadiaAug 26, 20191 votes

Each individual Noxian may or may not be evil. That'd be like saying each and every German in WW2 was evil. Well, no. Erwin Rommel wasn't evil, nor was the dude in Valkyrie that tried to kill Hitler. German ace Adolf Galland wasn't evil, either. But Nazi Germany very much was evil.

As I said, not every Noxian is evil, they simply appear so because of their representation in the roster. I already know this.

Same deal with Noxus. It's trying to take over the world, and it isn't in any way benevolent to anyone outside its borders. It's pretty evil outside of "kill everything first, no questions asked".

This isn't true. Noxus is very willing to ask questions first. They would much rather you bend your knee and accept the benefits of the empire than have to come in and kill you all.

IlyaK1986Aug 26, 20192 votes

That's kind of my point. Noxus stops just short of "let's just go over there and kill those people". But the moment says "sorry, we don't want your jackboot on our face", welp, those people just get gassed. Outside of nonhuman beings that literally want to destroy all existence (Darkins, the Void), Noxus is pretty much as evil as evil gets.

Ebonmaw DragonAug 26, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=N Jenkins,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=G7d0g2FE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-24T23:29:17.240+0000)

Exactly my thoughts. This is kinda like suddenly changing Mordor from being bad guys to "morally grey" people, without actually changing any of the people there.

Actually there is a book that tells the story from Sauron's point of view https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer Sure its not official, but it exist and makes a lot of sense.

Im not a fan of Lord of the Rings, but the orcs in the books were created by a member of a "holy race" to be basically slaves. You cant blame them for what they did.

[{quoted}](name=N Jenkins,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=G7d0g2FE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-24T23:29:17.240+0000)

Also funny thing? I also thought Jhin was from noxus, until i realized he used a gun. Noxus don't use guns.

That is ironic, because there is a Noxian champion uses a gun ( Kled ) and Jhin is the only Ionian champion who uses a gun.

But now i bet that you will tell me that you thought Kled was from Bandle City.

N JenkinsAug 26, 20191 votes

Oh my god i totally forgot about Kled. My bad.

ModAcademy KaynAug 25, 20192 votes

Meanwhile the more iconic Noxians

Typo, though it seems most people understood ya meant Demacians anyways :P

ArakadiaAug 25, 20191 votes

Your right! Thanks and fixed.

SEKAIAug 25, 20194 votes

Mostly cuz an entire nation dedicated to evil would be impossible to maintain.

I'm sure this argument bodes well when US and UK and their strong legacy of imperialism exist irl. Just do what US and UK etc etc do/did, pretend they're the beacon of hope and justice while colonising everyone else with supreme violence in the name of "civilising the savage" or "freedom" and whatever buzzwords they can conjure. That's 1 way to maintain a nation built on doing every evil things they can. Hell Nazi Germany did that too and was pretty good at it hence WW2, but ofc as it turns out we also have no shortage of Nazi sympathisers even today (and in fact is on the rise, which is quite concerning).

Noxus is a supreme expansionist nation hellbent on pillaging others as much as they can. The nation was initially conceptualised after the historical Rome Empire and Mongol Empire, which is even down to the usage of biological weapon (used against Ionia during their invasion of the land) which was used by Mongol during their sieges in present day Crimea in 1346 and was credited as the cause of the Black Death crisis in Europe. As far as everyone is concerned, Noxus is evil to everyone besides itself, and even then due to its meritocracy culture all generals can employ their own methods to conquest and some of them fashion themselves to be evil monsters even to the nation's own citizens, employing deadly methods not below forced child soldiers or you know, dropping the biochem weapon indiscriminately even onto their own soldiers.

Noxus also, does not hide the fact that their nation is evil. This is why the best they get to propaganda is that they dress their motto as something along the lines of "strong can rule the weak", which is still objectively evil, and they revel in it pretty hard. At least Noxus is honest, is the best compliment we can give to the nation (which we often can't give to mentioned irl nations that still exists or had existed).

However, given many of the players or writers at Riot are from real-world US and whatnot who have been conditioned by their nation's constant bombardment of whitewashing propaganda that their nation is supposedly doing good work for their non-stop evil deeds, so the readers and writers themselves often just jump into the Noxus' defence on their own. The fictional Noxians often already see themselves as evil but simply rationalise it with the "dog eat dog" worldview; and this comes into stark contrast when real-life readers and writers often come from the angle of interpreting or writing Noxus as supposedly never evil in the first place. That's quite sad if you think about it.

FebosAug 24, 20193 votes

Noxus was "evil" and Demacia was "good". Then everything changed when the Lore Nation attacked. Pretty much how it goes.

Noxus is by far my favourite faction.

ArakadiaAug 25, 20194 votes

I love Noxus too but the current visuals for the faction really don't help to break the idea that they are the "bad guys".

IlyaK1986Aug 26, 20193 votes

Because they are the bad guys. What exactly gives them any redeemable qualities besides "hey, if you live here, you can also dog eat dog your way to the top?"

ArakadiaAug 26, 20191 votes

Read the lore and any official comments by Riot and you would know they are in fact not supposed to be the bad guys. They just look like that from outside in.

GreenLoreAug 26, 20192 votes

To be fair though they are still pretty bad.

After all they are constantly conquering other factions and force them to work for them to get their resources. They might be accepting of outsiders, but that is more due to being very pragmatic.

The way I see it, Riot doesn't want them to be JUST the bad guys, they want them to be multilayered, but that doesn't mean that they can't lean towards evil.

ArakadiaAug 26, 20192 votes

I mean they aren't anymore evil than the numerous other nations in Runeterra and real life that fought wars. They are a lot more fair in most ways and Demacia's whole mercy thing is honestly unrealistic at times (they let go of enemy troops AND give them money to make it home???).

Your right I suppose about them leaning more towards evil but the visual and champion representation we get of them almost always makes them look like they are flat out villains.

GreenLoreAug 26, 20191 votes

I feel like a lot of this is due to the fact that Noxus used to be THE villain-faction. Just look at the old lore and you'll notice that all 3 of the resolved storylines of the old lore (the anti-barbarian campaign, the ionia-invasion and the kalamanda-conflict) had Noxus as its mains antagonists.

And the problem is that most of the noxian champs were released during that time.

That being said, it makes sense that Noxus comes off as the villains, as they are one of the few factions who actually attack others,wheras most other factions are pretty much content with what they have and are pretty much busy with their own inner conflicts. This makes Noxus the agressors in most conflicts, which will pretty much paint the other one as the victim.

ArakadiaAug 26, 20192 votes

This is most likely correct and completely fair, I guess I just wish that they could keep Noxus as the aggressor without having them all be so obviously villainous in appearance and theme. Not everyone in Noxus needs to be a stone cold killer or use dark magic.

IlyaK1986Aug 26, 20193 votes

They gassed farmers in Ionia. They collaborated with Singed. Their general MO is "either you let us conquer you without a fight, or we slaughter your people, and conquer what's left. Either way, you can't say no." Either way, they coerce others for their own purposes, either through threat of force, or direct application of it. No, not every single person living in the borders of the empire is out to point a crossbow at a foreigner, but that's generally how the government's run, with two of the three head rulers having had direct experience in the subjugation of others (Darius leads Noxus's most prestigious legion, Swain was one of the generals involved in the Ionian invasion, and all the atrocities it entailed).

As far as bad guys go, the only entities higher up on the tier list are the Darkins and the Void. But as far as "humans you really want nothing to do with", Noxus is definitely at the top.

N JenkinsAug 26, 20193 votes

You could write a book about atrocities Noxus has commited. And the good noxus has done...i doubt would even fill a half a piece of paper.

N JenkinsAug 25, 20193 votes

Personally i would be fine if Noxus was still just evil. Nothing wrong with that, this is fiction. It's the inconsistency that i get frustrated about.

GayrensTariAug 25, 20193 votes

O ya there is no abusulote evil or good, but noxas is still the dark one. They are programed to kill and conquer, they don't protect.

The Anagram KingAug 25, 20192 votes

When the old lore was retconned, the quality dropped almost instantaneously. Sure, characters and factions were fleshed out - complete with paragraphs of flavour stories and info dumps. However, one-dimensional tropes replaced what were once mildly nuanced or non-committal character personalities (including in rework designs and VOs) and simplistic childlike morality/PoVs were used to - I assume - appeal to a wider market.

Basically, Riot took already established ideas and then implemented a writing101 approach to them, giving people unnecessary and skin-deep flaws or zany tropes as a way of adding 'complexity' to an otherwise blatant: "This guy = bad guy, his faction = bad faction."

Ie: Damacia is a beacon of hope and justice... but what if there's TOO much justice? Sometimes soldiers don't like it! Noxus is bad and preys on the weak... but look how strong they are! See? Now they're not totally bad! Zaun is full of criminals and terrorists... but citizens live there too! Everyone needs to make a living! Piltover is amazing and perfect... but gosh they sure are egotistical, right? And I mean, Zaun's underneath it now so rich people are probably being bad!

etc.

Not being condescending, but League ads are definitely aiming for really young kids. When it comes to a younger playerbase, simpler and tropier is considered better. It's just easier for them to digest.

GreenLoreAug 26, 20193 votes

I'm honestly trying to figure out if you are a troll or if you really believe in the stuff that you are writing here. Because I can't see how any of the current factions are less simplistic than the previous ones, where Noxus was just the evil empire, demacia was simply the good empire, ionia was the good empire, but also asian, Zaun was the faction for evil science while Piltover was the faction for good science and the Avarosans were the good Freljord-tribe. And the rest of the factions just existed and did basically nothing.

There was literally zero nuance here. Demacia,the avarosans, Piltover and Ionia never did anything bad, Noxus and Zaun never did anything good.

The Anagram KingAug 26, 20192 votes

Noxus was always super Darwinian, complicit in atrocities under the rule of a semi-immortal leader, but characters like Darius, Riven and Swain represented a desire for change. Noxus was too corrupt, ruthless or shortsighted, respectively. Noxus was bad. Not BECAUSE it was bad - but because it had to be for characters to want to effect change from within. And the lore was heading in that direction, for a time. Now, Noxus is the evil empire. They are unconcerned with internal reform. They're just the war nation. Kled would have been a nice touch if he had been an example of Noxus reluctantly overcoming its discrimination against Yordles. Instead, it turned out Kled has 'always been there'.

Demacia was pretty boring, characterised heavily by its war with Noxus. But the majority of League's lore was written through the perspective of its characters. Garen was a selfless bastion and was rubbing off on Katarina. Lux was traumatised and empty, alluding to the lack of choice people like her truly had to choose the direction of their lives. Jarvan exuded power and resolve; narrating Demacia's noble push to pacify its surrounding regions (being incorruptibly good can be fun if you are, say, wiping out dragons and demons). It's also worth noting that Swain and J4's rivalry was as gritty and cerebral as League's lore ever got.

Zaun was libertarian capitalism (nothing off-limits, provided you can pay your way). Piltover was liberal capitalism (regulated capitalism, like in most Western nations).

Zaun was only portrayed 'evil' in the context of characters being hired by Noxus to murder stuff. Some awful stuff was happening in Zaun, but there wasn't really a governing body in the traditional sense. You paid for protection, there. You paid for security. And if you did that, you lived a pretty decent life. After all, there were bright eyed university students (Viktor), wrong-done environmentalists (Janna) and state celebrities (Mundo). Clearly dystopian. But definitely not the one-dimensional slum where poor people get experimented on, that it is now. And again, like Noxus - it had people on the inside working to redeem, defend or transform the city into something more in tune with their ideals.

Piltover was portrayed as 'good', because it maintained a sense of ethics and focused less on military application. It was commercial goods and advertisement. It was global problems and solutions. Theoretical scientists and charismatic heroes to the community. But phony. Oh so phony. It only beat Zaun in one scientific contest (which the lore implied was a big deal) and its brightest minds expressed bewilderment at the achievements of their Zaunite contemporaries. Their city was characterised, for a time, by flamboyant terrorists. The likes of Jinx and the burglar Caitlyn could never catch. These criminals came across as bored, lavishing in attention and the chaos they caused. Piltover glorified people who would always be more interesting than you, the consumer/the viewer. There was a sense of decay and urgency, as people like VIktor and singed brazenly ignored the supposed influence of the Piltovian government. And the government idly allowed it, giving rise to even more celebrity saviours - 'defenders of tomorrow'

Ionia was a victim fighting to retain its freedom. It was characterised by its crippling defeat - both through sheer military force, and chemical attack. Its former leaders were long dead, abandoned or actively negotiating surrender until Karma and Irelia stepped up in to fill the old guard's shoes.

You'll notice a theme, here. Every nation/city state was actively engaging with an ideology shift. This makes sense, considering that justice journals and character lore generally built on the existing story in a linear narrative fashion.

New lore has discarded this effort, focusing mostly on self-contained, static, characteristics or tropes. The unchanging ideal.

GreenLoreAug 26, 20192 votes

Uhm the thing about Noxus in the new lore was that it did change the way you describe. The internal reform that you are missing so much already happened. And its simply fact that Darius and Swain are by no means good people, they are ultimately just a lighter shade of black compared to Boram darkwill, they did the exact reform that you were seeing in the old lore(though in the old one, it was never clear if Swain was any better than Boram or if he was even worse). And the black rose is unhappy with Swains reforms, they try to bring Noxus back onto its old course, hence why they have turned against Swain. Not to mention that Noxus has now an actual reason for attacking other nations besides being just "the war nation"(which is really all they were in the old lore), as their lands are barren and thus they are desperate for resources, especially since Swain anticipates Mordes return.

So you are pretty much defining demacia over 2 characters who are both beacons of justice and goodness and 1 character who had to follow her duty instead of going her own path? And J4 and Swains rivalry was epic because J4 fought against Swain like once, maybe twice, or what?

Zaun had pretty much no defined culture in its original version other than being the crazy-science city that worked for Noxus. Janna was pretty much the only one that wasn't portrayed as evil(keep in mind that Viktor was certainly intended to be a villain considering it took a riot from his fans to retcon Jayces lore in which Viktor clearly acted like one) and she was never associated with the place after her origin story. She even took Piltovers side in a race between Zaun and Piltover, which was most likely done, because Janna was considered one of the good champs, so she had to be on the side of the good science-city... So yeah, no ideology shift was in sight as Janna was the only good zaunite and she never interacted with the city after her origin lore.

Your post just highlights how little we knew about Piltover in the old lore. I mean seriously you say that someone like Jinx was defining for it?(I know you also mentioned C, but you are clearly projecting Jinxs motivation onto C as well, since Cs motivation was always a mystery) Jinx isn't even from Piltover and her actions were defining the place for you, just think about that.... Also as far as I know there was never a part where Singed glossed over Piltovers government(or where he interacted with Piltover at all).

And Piltover having lost the last 4 zeppelin races against Zaun and then triumphing over them was honestly one of the biggest clichees of the whole lore, with Piltover beating the undefeated evil rival thanks to the power of the good champs, that honestly sounds like it could be from an episode of an old saturday morning cartoon.

In general I'm surprised about how much you are overlooking the ideology shifts in the new lore anyway. I mean the current Demacia story is all about how the whole "anti-magic"-movement of the country is tearing it apart from the inside, Ionias big theme has been for years now that its ideology is changing as a result of the noxus-war, Shurima is trying to reestablish itself and while Azir is more or less the current leader, there are also people like Taliyah(and obviously Xerath), who don't want Shurima to change like this and Urgot is actively working on tearing Zauns ruling class apart to cause anarchy.

The Anagram KingAug 26, 20191 votes

Yes, Demacia has a writing 101: "I discriminate against [blank[" trope. Urgot is an anarchist and does anarchism because gosh he's such an anarchist (his character is his gimmick) Shurima is a self-contained side faction for people to adventure in if Riot feels like doing a flavour story (Sivir's a princess!). Vestaya are animal people from a mysterious far away place, smarter and wiser and stronger than humans and also magic. Ionia is generally ignored. The old lore genuinely chronicled Ionia's history and struggles more than new lore does.

You're arguing as if I'm writing a love-letter towards the old lore. There are elements of both that are good. The former was more nuanced and emphasised growth. The latter spurns out character-specific side stories from a greater range of perspectives, rather than just through Demacia and Piltover.

But I don't see any reality where someone could make the honest case that the quality of lore has improved in the wake of the retcon. It has been simplified down to the most basic and digestible of forms. It has its target audience and it's not hiding this. Like I said - we've all seen the ads. :P

Noxus is gonna stay the bad guy, because that's more digestible. Swain won't become more and more terrifying over time until Darius or Katarina switches sides (or stages a coup), because that's too subtle.

Instead, Lux will hang out with the other mage character and cry when Silas is sentenced to Death for reading books. And Silas will brush against her and explode his chains to do a escape. Because that's more digestible, and you don't need to change any characters or anything about Demacia to do it. Silas is now eternal magic rebel - forever wearing his shackles. Like Urgot, he is his trope. That's all of him.

GreenLoreAug 27, 20192 votes

You always complain about how the lore got so tropey, but you know what?Everything is a trope. It's literally impossible to write a story without using tropes. The reason why the old lore didn't come off as so tropey is because it was so barebones and never fleshed out its locations or ina lot of cases even its characters, thats why you defined the locations from the old lore over its characters.

And you are interpreting waaay too much into the old lore. I mean you say that Swain, in the new one, won't become more terrifying over time until his subjects turn against him, when something like that would have never happened in the old lore either(Kata and Talon were against him from the get go, because it was obvious that Swain had something to do with their fathers disapperance).

You are filling the gaps in the old lore with your own headcanon, making it far deeper in your mind than it actually was.

The Anagram KingAug 27, 20191 votes

Sure, if you want to get into semantics, everything is a trope. Even avoiding tropes. But that doesn't make Urgot or the lore that surrounds him any less shallow than it was 15 seconds ago. :P

Swain, by contrast, was an evolving, moving, character. A plot device, too. Not everything has to be moving at once (talon and Kat not acting on suspicions is a strange thing to bring up), but there is a functional difference between old lore and new lore, in that regard. Growth and change defined it. Swain earned the admiration of his soldiers; the loyalty of his comrades. He was exiled, yet rose to kill the former Noxian leader and assume his place. Noxus changed. And all the while, as his allies grew in number, he became more frightening. Not just as a character - but to those who had reservations about him, in the first place.

This is an example of good storytelling. Subtly paving the road for a story, that the base may reflect on it, afterwards. Like a trap door that opens beneath your feet.

There is no equivalent to this in current lore. The Gangplank VS Miss Fortune affair was good. Clearly not the kind of thing Riot holds any vested interest in. More interest in conceptualising magic cats looking for friends. :P

GreenLoreAug 27, 20192 votes

I feel like I'm finally understanding where your problem with the new lore comes from and I think that it's mainly the pacing of it.

And I can understand that to some degree, because I'd say that the sometimes rushed pacing of the new lore is its biggest weakness. However I can also understand why riot does this, as they have essentially 100 different storylines and people want all these storylines to go somewhere eventually, so they don't really have the luxus of slowly building up some story aspects without causing the pacing to become unbearably slow.

And thats likely why you think the new lore is so tropey, because it tends to give us tons of information at once, with stories that directly tackle the main point. It's simply not as subtle(most of the time).

Swain is actually a good example of this, as he was introduced in the old lore as just a big name general of Noxus, who captured J4 at one point. He eventually became the grand general over the course of a longer story arc. Meanwhile, in the new lore, Swain goes from regular soldier, to warlock, to grand general all within his bio.

That being said, I still stand by my previous statement that you are reading too much into some parts of the old lore. A lot of the old lore was pretty much just filler that ultimately went nowhere. Granted this might have been because of the retcon, but I'm pretty sure that a lot of stuff was simply thrown out with no plan for the future. Not to mention that a lot of places were really badly defined, Shurima was basically just a desert and Bilgewater was practically just a name that was there to allow sea-based champs to be put somewhere.

GreenLoreAug 26, 20192 votes

Honestly I don't think this is a problem. Noxus was originally just "the bad guys"-faction and riot has been working on subverting that, by showing that even though Noxus is very rough, it isn't all bad and there are advantages to live in Noxus, that other nations don't really have.

However I think it is an enjoyable experience to see Noxus as just the bad guys at first, and then find out that it does have its good sides too.

Pika FoxAug 26, 20192 votes

They arent "Evil" because "Evil" isnt a thing that generally exists for existence's sake. Theyre "Evil" because they commit atrocities in the name of furthering their beliefs. Demacia is also "Evil". Even looking at the real world, youd be very hard pressed to find a country whos government has not committed heinous atrocities within the last 5 to 10 years; hell, most cant even go a month or two.

Ebonmaw DragonAug 25, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=N Jenkins,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=G7d0g2FE,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-08-24T18:22:02.206+0000)

is the only champ i could believe is not 100% evil based on his dialogue, looks and character he portrays in game alone.

Well, he was the last champion from noxus that got reworked... so it makes sense that the next champions from Noxus will follow that path.

GayrensTariAug 26, 20191 votes

Garen Garen :"You are still my angel, Sheild of Valoran, meanwhile, Noxian scums!" Druis Darius :"SHUT UP! You don't even know the real way to use Sheild of Valoran!" ... Garen Garen :"Tell me babe! I wanna know the real way to use Sheild of Valoran!" Taric Taric :" Ahem...I'm shy..."(blushing)

Crimson ZeppelinAug 26, 20191 votes

Also it seems refugees of the magic sort end up there in Noxus. Does everyone remember the Karthus lore? He was in a religious order in one of the Noxus slums, but he managed to keep to community happy enough even deaths is lurking on every corner. I think this is one of the worst places you can be in Noxus but you are NOT doomed.

But well in Demacia and you get the short end of the stick purely by bad luck, you will be locked up forever or killed just for the sake of it for no reason.

Meep ManAug 28, 20191 votes

Noxus is the "Horde" of the League universe. Dealt a bad hand and forced to find new land to really get the resources they need, they are forced to war with others. However, this kind of life style DOES attract the negative and evil type. An empire where expansion and therefore war is common is a breeding ground for the iffy types, especially a place like Noxus where the only rule is that strength rules. This doesn't mean that Noxus is evil, but the climate of Noxus molds its people into warriors that, to an outsider, are evil. Noxus makes you ask a lot of questions about morality and should be a perfect example of somewhere where just because its most notable inhabitants of history were questionable doesnt mean the empire itself is evil.