Thoughts on where lore is, where it has been, where it may go, etc.

Tsaalyo·10/3/2014, 12:00:51 AM·10 votes·2,644 views

Might as well use this place for the couple months the Reds will actively scour it, right?

Retcon discussions/arguments aside, Riot, there's been something that has always bothered me about the way you write your lore, and with you producing new lore at a rapid pace lately, I notice the problem persists. So, here it is.

Your lore and characterizations are absurdly black and white.

The 'good' guys are blatantly good, and the evil ones, blatantly evil. We've got Demacia run by a guy named Lightshield, and Noxus formerly run by a guy named Darkwill. I thought and hoped that you had moved past that, but the Sion rework has made you guys drag Darkwill back up and expand further upon it.

I also remember one of the early JoJs, where you guys had Katarina say something to the effect of "those Ionians should be THANKING us for giving them technology and actual culture. I don't understand what they're complaining about". Noxus slaughtered them (even innocent civilians begging for mercy, as was written in Riven's lore), and she claims Ionia should thank them for it. Heil, Katarina du Fuhrer.

And it even comes down to things as simple as the in-game quotes, which I think can best be summed up by a sampling of Garen and Kat:

Garen: Fear not, I'm coming! Kat: BLOOD FOR NOXUS.

Yeah.

Riot, as long as you're trying to retcon everything and write a bunch of new stuff, I'd like very much for you to take a moment and reconsider all of this.

  1. Where are the thousands of Noxian protesters speaking out against Noxian attacks on Ionia/Freljord/even Demacia? Every nation, no matter how brainwashed and zealous, has that. Why not Noxus?
  2. Why do Noxians have to live in a giant skull, as if the city was designed by Dr. Wily?
  3. And what about Demacia? Are we to believe that Demacia is the first military in the history of humanity to have soldiers who have never committed horrible war crimes when they thought nobody was watching?
  4. Why is Riven the only Noxian to not take "we value strength in all its forms" to "I have the right to kill you because I'm capable of it"?
  5. Why is every scientist in Piltover a noble researcher, and every scientist in Zaun a maniac?
  6. Why is there no expansion on Annie's family and their Gray Order, which apparently are moderate and tame enough to tentatively work alongside Demacia for the greater good of peace?

And even just coming down to plain and simple motivations.

  1. Why do you HAVE to depict Sejuani as being more inclined to burn a farm down for being "a weak way of living life" than use said farm to feed her starving people?
  2. Why does LeBlanc, whose supposed goal is to restore the Noxian Aristocracy's power, have to be a megalomaniac? The lore claimed Noxus was far more tame and peaceful when the Aristocracy was in power, so why is LB yet another insane, power hungry Noxian?
  3. Swain opposed the Ionian campaign, so why does he have to immediately become a power mad tyrant upon finally disposing of Darkwill? Can we not go five minutes without a cartoon villain ruling Noxus?
  4. Why do you HAVE to depict Sivir as only refusing to work with Noxus in their Ionian campaign because "their strategy sucked", as opposed to, you know, opposing slaughtering innocent people because LOLSTRENGTH?
  5. Why is Miss Fortune constantly depicted as working with Noxians over anyone else, even though she's supposedly a pirate hunter and "good" Bilgewater resident, even sharing many of noble smuggler Han Solo's traits? I must have missed the movie where Han and Vader tag teamed.

But a few of many questions, all of that. And what kills me is, the final JoJs had Kat and Talon working alongside J4 for a greater good. Garen fended off his own soldiers to ensure they didn't harm the Noxians, and everyone was working to expose the JoJ's attempt to incite violence between Demacia and Noxus. I really thought you guys were moving past the saturday morning cartoon writing you were putting into Demacia/Noxus, and all of LoL's lore in general. But now I see you slipping back to all that Darkwill and PASSIONATE PASSION crap, and it bothers me more than your want to retcon everything. It's not enough that you want to retcon, but you want to only bring back the cartoonish writing? Come on.

No nation is entirely good or evil. No conflict is between entirely good and evil. No PERSON is entirely good or evil. And I think I speak for most of us when I say that we'd like for your lore to start reflecting that. A little less Katarina du Hitler wondering why the Ionians aren't thanking her for killing them, and a little more Katarina working with J4 for a lasting peace.

Yay, my first rant on the new boards.

33 Comments

LeeDark10/3/2014, 11:31:06 AM4 votes

TL;DR: Why do bad writers write bad writings?

brusque10/3/2014, 3:41:59 AM3 votes

Wow, I think this is a really thoughtful post that lays out the examples quite nicely and quite clearly. Elegantly said and supported. I hope that whatever direction Riot takes the new lore in, that they consider how the points you've made will push the game in a direction that teaches people valuable life lessons -- lessons that we can learn and apply in the real world, and which transcend those learned through gameplay itself.

A Superb Villain10/3/2014, 1:09:29 PM3 votes

HEY!

Viktor is not a maniac! He is a respectable member of the scientific community with a great understanding of human physiology, cybernetics, robotics, and a philosopher of transhumanist ideals. His research and experiments are all geared towards the betterment of humanity, as outlined by his Glorious Evolution.

Sure he likes to put lasers on everything, but who doesn't?

Embrace progress, join the Evolution.

Edit: I understand this is what Tsaaylo is arguing for, I was just being silly and pointing out that there are some champions that break the "black and white" morality typical of the League, Riot just does not bother to use them.

sp44110/3/2014, 3:05:19 PM2 votes

Why is every scientist in Piltover a noble researcher, and every scientist in Zaun a maniac?

I can tell you that. It's because Zaun rules and Piltover drools.

Irongrinder10/4/2014, 4:10:42 AM2 votes

Given Riot's pedigree when it comes to keeping their promises, I'm expecting lore won't go anywhere for at least the next three years, as we'll be too busy digging our way out of the massive plot-hole that is the Institute of War's retcon. After that, we'll get some more champion backgrounds, and that'll continue for another two years. After that, maybe (MAYBE) we'll get a semi-significant lore event. One lore event. One that'll move the character arcs forward. Then we'll be stuck sitting on our hands for another few years.

TL;DR--Wake me up in another five to seven years, when Riot's ball actually gets rolling. Or don't, as the lore won't be much better than it currently is by my reckoning.

ShadowKnight122410/4/2014, 6:31:05 PM2 votes

I find everything to be far more interesting when it's painted in degrees of neutrality than when it's all good and evil. To me, every city state should have its virtues and its flaws, its acts of heroism and its war crimes, its loyalty and its backstabbing treason, everything that you see in any city in the real world. Other MOBAs do the whole "good versus evil", so I feel it's in League's best interest to shy away from that as much as possible.

Somewhere in my heart, there's a treasured space where Lissandra was made into a neutral hermit, the Ice Witch, who would be sought after for counsel, but who stayed away from the machinations of the humans in the Freljord. She was Iceborn, and she would outlive them all. Why bother with petty trifles? She was just a simple woman in a tower, watching the world pass her by.

exiledFromBadmen10/3/2014, 3:34:50 PM1 votes

Shyvana isn't like Garen.

NeoJusteBelmont10/3/2014, 11:56:23 PM1 votes

I can say something in regards of MissFortune

She's kind of a Han Solo only towards Bilgewater. However, Bilgewater itself usually enjoys a small relationship with Noxus and geographically they're located nearest with Bilgewater, therefore, they give a better, practical bounty job to fund her campaign to unify Bilgewater and find her mother's killer. Really, it seems more practical to contact the nearest city state rather than a city state that is too far away.

If TV Tropes would have something to describe MissFortune, it's Punch Clock Villain, she probably held no ill wills to the Ionians or any other targets of Noxians, it's just a job. Bounty Hunters aren't supposed to be shining paragons of good (and I thought in Star Wars, the Bounty Hunter is being Jabba the Hut?), they take any jobs, dirty or not, to get paid. For MissFortune, what took top priority is the welfare of Bilgewater, her crews and her mother's killer (the last one is just so she can question or kill him), not something like 'goodness'. And while she is a noble figure amongst Bilgewater, the state itself is stated to be a den full of crimes, piracy and chaos (most humans there have a record of crime, such as Graves (conman) and TwistedFate (card shark)), and mostly that is how the rest of the world saw it, which kind of fueled her villainy portrayal, but the most she could garner was just a 'Punch Clock Villain'.

I think if there IS a Bilgewater arc coming, that will decide where MF stands, either she converts into a ruthless pirate girl, or she becomes more open in her 'nobleness'.

That being said, remember how in the first promotional video, Nasus was counted amongst the bad team? I think the same deal goes with MissFortune.

And as far as Sejuani goes... uhm... that description of 'feeding people with the farm' is something that Ashe would do, something that goes against Sejuani's upbringing that the winter and Freljord are a very harsh place. She grew up believing that strength is everything and kindness has no place in the world, it wasn't her fault that she had such upbringing and no peaceful people ever brought her to senses. Her belief is that might, not peace, makes right. If she would just let them farm, we'll just have another clone of Ashe

And if anything, she also stood opposed to Lissandra, and the only ruthless guy to be at her side is Olaf. Are you going to say that Volibear is not at all peaceful despite his lore saying that he's protective to the Ursine, because he took his lot to Sejuani? Or are you going to say Udyr has foregone LeeSin's teachings by siding with Sejuani instead of Ashe when he returned to Freljord? I think the answer is that they may realize that sometimes, a cruel individual like that has a point: A great might is needed in order to either ensure peace or take down Lissandra, and it is their right to think that Ashe is not up for the job, despite not hating her.

Tsaalyo10/11/2014, 1:31:49 PM1 votes

Giving this a bump, because I just played a game with a Sion. I dunno if it's always been there or if this is new, but apparently, one of his new taunts is "IT'S MURDERIN' TIME"? Or did I hear it wrong? Because if that is what he says, wow, it's exactly what this thread is about. Riot, you're making LoL's lore as serious and believable as Spaceballs... except you're not trying to be funny.

cshakes10/3/2014, 2:39:02 PM1 votes

I'd like to disagree with you on #4. Having Sivir be amoral is actually a lagre part of her characterization: she is the center of her world, she does things for money, and if something's more effort than what she'd be paid, she won't do it. At least she isn't an insane megalomaniac. She's more of an amoral rationalist.

Spot on with everything else, though.

OdixEo10/3/2014, 2:13:36 PM1 votes

If you actually take the time and read the rules in the left side of the story boards you can see what riot expects from all of these: they throw us a few pre ordered words and expect us to be happy with that and theorice the rest (all the fucking story ) about every character. Thats how much lazy they are.