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My 2 Cents: Lore

Talos of Altmora··6 votes·1,429 views

The Lore Of League of Legends has always been a very interesting draw for me. I started playing Moba's a couple of years ago, my first being Dota 2. While it is a fun game, the lore often took a backseat to the game. Which is fine, there is nothing wrong with that. League was different because the characters felt like people. They each had a unique style, personality, and fun gameplay. I soon came to enjoy the storylines in the game, and often wondered how it would turn out. However, it turns out I had joined shortly after Riot's Lore team decided on a choice that was very controversial in the eyes of many of it's fans, and that was deciding that the Institute of War and the in-universe League of Legends was taken out of continuity.

At first, I really didn't care, and while fans on that particular Dev Blog were very quick to show their displeasure, It is practically ignored by the community (at least as far as I can see). However, the lore team seems to think that the stigma will go away, and while I was trying to read some of the old lore and actually getting into it for the first time (I usually just stuck to the character pages) made changes to the lore my fellow players loved.

Now, I joined at a time when Kailista had been released. I came across said Dev Blog article and read it to see what all the fuss is about. Now, I understand what they wanted to do; They wanted to expand the setting and found the summoners restrictive. I agreed with them that summoners were powerful, they managed to stop a potential war, keep Nocturne, Cho'gath, and many other dangerous entities in a some-what controlled state. The thing that stuck out at me was how they said it restricted them when it came to backstory. Every new champion needed a reason to join and remain in the League, and as their number grew, the net result was that over time the world started to feel, well, small, and eventually less interesting.

I tilted my head at that. "Well of course they need a reason to join the League, why would they be there if they didn't?" Then I did a thought experiment and tried to find reasons that champions released after the fact could join the league. Re'sai was captured, Ekko wants to show his vision of Zaun, Kalista wishes to help the various grudge bearers, Bard believes that the League is somehow endangering the universe, ect. Another thing is that they decided to break up the lore and the game. They said that using the lore to explain the game mechanics is restrictive as well. At this point I was very, very confused. They also took the summoner's out of it entirely, which means if their goal was to insure us pesky summoners stayed out of it then mission accomplished.

As I have said, this is largely ignored by the fans. I mean, it's not like Riot could STOP us from saying that the Institute of war is still Canon. Lore (aside from new champion teasers and trailers) became pushed to the background. Depressingly like Dota. Still I thought I had give the new lore for various characters that were being rewritten a chance, but the lore was about three lines long. Then Burning Tides came out, and I thought it was good, for one it hardly changed anything, and it showed me Bilgewater for the first time. The only thing that I disliked about it was Miss Fortune; my interpretation of her from the old lore was a woman who could kill Gangplank as a last resort, but the new Miss Fortune was...not. I was so unhappy that I asked Riot to delete her from my account, and they agreed. Still, I had realized something from that experience; the first of which was that Riot's lore team made a character I once enjoyed into something that disturbed me. The other being that Riot's Lore team has no way to get criticism from us.

I remained silent from that point, but then Targon was getting the same treatment. Except they changed a lot of lore. The New Mount Targon is now a place of aspects. While I thought The New Diana was just okay, Leona had become the very opposite of her character, seemingly becoming just as bad as the rest of the Solari if what I read from it was any indication, but then I came to Pantheon. The main problem with him is that he is not Pantheon, he isn't even the warrior we were introduced to in his story. He is "an Aspect of War", a practical god. Pantheon used to be the "normal" human of Targon. That made him stand out, all he l needed was a connection to the Solari/Lunari conflict, and because he was Leona's childhood friend I thought that when Targon got it's day in the limelight that it would explore it, explore any connections between him and his fellow Targoinans. But to the new lore, He practically has no connections to the others, he was not a warrior who wished to be a baker, he is nothing like his old incarnation.

Let me be clear, It's not like a he was reworked like Poppy or Trundle, If they did maybe I wouldn't dislike it as much, but now what little I knew about him and all that potential was gone. He used to be my favorite champion, he was my first main, but now I can no longer go back to reading his old lore without the new hanging in the balance. I found it sad that I prefered the fanfiction more than I like the professional writers at riot. The worst part was that, as far as I know, Riot doesn't get the criticism. Even In that Dev blog we disliked it, comments by rioters were downvoted in the hundreds. That didn't stop them. Where is OUR voice in all of this? I don't want to retcon the League back in, I just don't want riot to abandon it's old stories. Update them sure, but why change them so far? Runeterra is seems to be no place for summoners, yet we are still here.

Please tell me your thoughts on this. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

29 Comments

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO3 votes

Well, Responding to one of your points, Riot's lore team wants to tell more interesting ongoing stories, and having an all powerful institute around just never allowed anything to happen on a large scale. The Harrowing for instance is something that the Institute would never permit, every champ from the Shadow Isles would be destroyed, and that wouldn't be interesting at all.

And Rek'Sai, if she gets captured then what? Where can her story go? It's done, she's captured.

Finally, I think a lot of the people here had their own version of Pantheon in their heads and all were different from another. This was all well and good when Pantheon was a walking movie reference and his more consisted of "This guy likes war, a lot". The baker joke was just that, a joke. Riot decided to flesh out the Targonian into the character they want him to be, rather than leave him to be what he was.

Talos of Altmora2 votes

I agree with you, but the question is whether or not he had more potential now or before. I believe it is the latter, but you are free to make your own conclusion. He could have been more involved in his friend's quest to bring Diana to justice, maybe even feel conflicted about it, now he just doesn't seem to care about it. Who knows, maybe that will change but as of now he seems to be very different than he was. Side note: the fans run with that baker joke, in fact it was the background of one of my favorite fan comics. I see it as a part of his character, if you don't that's alright.

Rek'sai, is an animal. An intelligent animal, but still feral. What I was trying to say is that riot could easily make her fit into the old institute of war. I would counter ask you were is she now? In a desert, she has no story. Her being captured could be played for a lot of stories, like the person who captured her, her escape attempts, being studied. You can do a lot with both.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO1 votes

Honestly, I don't like the idea of Rek'Sai being captured. But that's just me and my biases. If anything, I would like to see an epic confrontation in Shurima in the home of the Xer'Sai. Rek'Sai is a predator and a queen, and seeing her in chains would just make me sad.

EDIT: Not that I'm saying your ideas for future developments are interesting, they definitely are. but if the institute was still around, there would be so much less conflict and uncertainty in Runeterra. And any story will always result in the victory of the institute, which would grow stale.

Talos of Altmora3 votes

I agree, but a simple solution would be to weaken the institute. Make them just one of many factions. I don't know if that would upset the fan base more, but it could allow for more conflict. But as for that epic confrontation, against who? She is just there until riot decides to do something with her.

As I said in the post, the original institute was a huge gamebreaker. I'm not to upset about it, I just upset that the old lore is being thrown out. Maybe it could have been reworked, but Riot decided to forget it.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO1 votes

Yah that's not really something I considered. If would be interesting to see the institute as a weaker faction, but That road is not one that will be explored by Riot.

As for the confrontation with Rek'Sai, I was mostly spit-balling but a battle between her and say Sivir and her mercenaries would be awesome. Just imagine the very ground beneath you trembling as smaller xer'sai attempt to drag you down, all the while your company is drawing closer together. Then, you here a terrible roar and Rek'Sai emerges.

I think it'd be cool.

Talos of Altmora2 votes

Now we have something we can both agree on completely! Let's hope they do something that awesome with Rek sai

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO1 votes

Ya for real, how much rp do I have to buy before we see it happen. Does Rek'Sai even have color text?

Warlord Dienekes2 votes

Is he though?

Atreus was very well developed, actually Atreus was kind of amazingly close to what I wanted to see. But what do we know about Pantheon other than what it is? Not it's personality, just what it is? And even then people are confused since some people still seem to think of him as a god, and not the space parasite he is.

Now, even if we go back to the Old!Panth (who I think did have the bare bones of personality, but I won't get into that again) and strip him down to just "he is an amazing soldier for the Rakkor people of Targon," and that's it. Do you really believe that you can't use that as a foundation to tell stories to mean something? War stories can be amazing! War stories can be how we analyze how various people are confronted with the brutality of the world.

And beyond that, he was a Spartan. Just go look at what the actual Spartans were like, you could write a hundred stories just about the Agoge and how that would straight up screw with people. Who is he going to war with? What battles has he fought? How have they scarred him? Does he embrace all of it, is there some part of him that despises what he has had to do on the field? Has he had to commit horrors to win a war? All of this could have come together to create an amazing and memorable character.

Instead they almost did that, named him Atreus, killed him off and gave us a space parasite.

Talos of Altmora3 votes

Well put. Said it better than I could.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO2 votes

Except, the Targonians (as we know them now) don't fight in large scale wars. They are not a populace people compared to Demacia or Noxus. They are a brutal tribe that clings to the mountain of their gods. Old Pantheon just doesn't fit in that narrative as a glorious soldier, the character of Atreus fit much better, and even the aspect is a much more suitable Pantheon for his circumstance. He actively eliminates the threats to Targon before they arrive

Talos of Altmora3 votes

True, but I don't see how he doesn't fit in. In their new narrative iPantheon could still be the paragon of his people, just because they have a small population doesn't mean that they don't get into war's with other tribes like the ancient Greek city-states. And besides he lost what made him stand out, a normal man who treats war as his art. Now the space-God-whatever that calls itself pantheon is just another aspect, and apparently Sol's money manager. Making him a god just seemed to diminish the stories that could be told.

Besides that, maybe this whole aspect thing needed to be introduced in a rework for pantheon, because as of now he is an entire different thing than the old targonian paragon. It feels like he's someone else, not the pantheon we knew and loved.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO2 votes

Well yes, he is a very different Pantheon, your comparison between the tribes on Targon and the Ancient Greek city states falls short.

First of all, the city states are just that, city states. The tribes in Targom are nowhere near the levels of these places in both population and infrastructure. The ancient city states went to war for basically any reason in the world. The Spartans even enslaved an entire race of people to do farm work so that they could focus on war.

The tribes on tarpon are much smaller, they seem to be close knit communities because they have to be, everything must be small for survival to happen. Most of the time they are fighting monsters and bandits. I'd imagine conflicts between other tribes are rare due to he reputation of the rakkor as fierce and ruthless. Any wide scale conflict over anything not crucial to the tribe would be a waste of potential farmers and defenders.

Now I do agree with you on what made him unique. I have seen it argued that it's his nature that made him worthy for the aspect, but he lost that feeling of being an exceptional human (batman) as opposed to a demigod (superman). And I definitely don't like that. I really want Atreus to return. Which may happen if Aurelion Sol is to be believed.

However, I will say that I don't like the angle of war as an art in new Targon. Bloodshed is certainly a necessity and a given in their lives, but it is not a recreational activity. I think Aatrox is the one that should be creating and stylizing war to his liking.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

I can think of a few ways you could progress Rek'Sai after being captured: Who captured her and for what reason? Were there experiments on her? Did she get free? How? Is she smart enough to go all Moby Dick on those who captured her?

I do agree with Talos of Altmora on Pantheon though. We may all have had out concept of Pantheon, sure, but I am willing to bet that no one's version of Pantheon was a guy who got possessed by some sort of nigh immortal extra-terrestrial slaver that claims to be a god, but really isn't. There's tweaking a character to make more story potential, then there's completely re-writing what he was. Pantheon was completely re-written.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO1 votes

But re written from what? He's much more developed than he ever was. Keep in mind that what we have is the foundation of Pantheon. If all the Targum lore is any indication we have an event on its way. Riot needed to shape Pantheon into an ideal foundation so that whatever he develops into means something.

Talos of Altmora2 votes

Simple, he was Leona's childhood friend. But when her right of passage came and she refused to kill someone of her own age, she was about to be executed. Pantheon would have carried it out if the sun didn't make her it's champion. After that he just disappeared from her lore. I wished that we would hear about him and Leona. I wanted riot to develop what they already have, because I loved that lore.

I don't like the direction targon is going. They already had good foundations, they just need to build on them. My opinion is that the being that calls himself Patheon is just a ghost wearing the corpse of the old pantheon.

Maybe it's just my emotions getting mixed into my argument, but I feel that the characters I used to love have died. I'd get a return of them if I could, but again that's just me.

Anyways, I hope the new lore is at least enjoyable to you guys. I guess I'll see if they can make me like the new pantheon.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO1 votes

Well to be fair, Leona is basically the same as she always had been, just slightly more realistic (at least to me) than before.

I'd like to think that Atreus will come back soon, and if I'm wrong I guess that will just suck.

And yah, I agree with you that the Panth/Leona friendship will be missed. I definitely was a PanthxLeona supporter so I'm sad that that part was cut out. But honestly I trust Riot's judgement on this one and I'm eager for more

Talos of Altmora3 votes

I don't know about how it will go, but since riot isn't telling the story that I hoped for, I already distrust it. I disagree about Leona though, while I have no doubt that hunting heretics was part of her job, she disliked it heavily (or the Solaris hid the more unsavory parts of themselves from her) she seemed more compassionate back then.

Also, not to be rude but I don't think making her more zealous is realistic. She's always been a protector first, warrior second. It would be realistic if we see some progression into that stage in the event, but as of now it clashes with her current voice acting. Is being more zealous making her a more rounded character, or is it derailing a genuine good character.

Anyways, I hope your trust is well placed.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO1 votes

I get that, but I think it comes down to how you perceive religious zealotry.

In this modern world, it is certainly not something that most would call an attractive descriptor. It calls to mind insanity, witch hunts, and inquisitions.

However on Mount Targon, where life is hard and the people are harder, these beliefs may be what sustain them through the long nights. After all, they all believe that the mountain is something worth protecting.

So Leona, who was raised from childhood by the Solari themselves, the Sun would of course seem to be the ultimate answer.

Finally, I think Riot did a good job of showing her compassionate side while maintaining her "backbone" so to speak. She spared and aided the golden boy (who I speculate to be one of the original Targonians) and as the head of the Solari, has focused on protecting her people. She is never the aggressor, which is why the animosity between her and Pantheon exists.

Leona will do anything to protect her people, but expansion and conquest is not one of them.

Talos of Altmora2 votes

True, true. I see your point. It's just that it's still pretty jarring for me to see the lore change this much for all the targonians.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO1 votes

It certainly is, and this much change has great potential to go badly.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Well yes, Targon and Greece are different. Because Riot decided to write them that way. Let's be honest, there is no actual reason besides "Riot wanted to" that the setting is in any way like it is. It doesn't make consistent, logical sense it's purely in the realm of "just roll with it logic." There definitely could have been a various mountain groups on or near Targon with the Rakkor being the top dogs of warfare, but they decided to instead make it 3 Rakkor, Solari, and the extinct Lunari.

There could have been more to it, but instead of focusing on the human (or the interesting part in my mind), they instead decided to go a completely different route and focus on body snatching alien things. That route, I certainly know I didn't ask for, but for all I know someone might have liked the idea. It just seems so completely out of nowhere to me.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO1 votes

Well, we know that there are other tribes around the base of Targon, even other beliefs, it's just that the Rakkor and solariare the most notable. As for direction of the event, I think this is certainly on the cosmic scale since the void is going to be involved.

Besides, Atreus, the only one who was replaced by his aspect, was prophesied a long time ago when Aurelion Sol killed a Pantheon, if that's good or bad for lore is up to you.

Talos of Altmora2 votes

We still think in terms of Greece because pantheon still looks like a normal dude in greek armor. If riot was going to do this they needed to update him and his lines, because right now, going over there lines, I don't feel like these character should be fighting the Void, they sound and act like human beings (In Leona and Diana's case they are humans augmented by magic/the sun and moon, but still seem human and concered with their own struggles.) Unless pantheon starts running around wearing animal skins, I can't believe Targon is a place of tribes, but a place of city states. They have the ability to forge impressive looking armor and weapons, meaning there is mining and blacksmiths. They seem to advanced to be tribes, (maybe in the real world there were tribes who had those, at what point does a tribe start being a city anyways?)

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO1 votes

Except, the Rakkor are a tribe. Pantheon got his armor from the Targonians who live on top of the mountain/other worlds. The Rakkor are simply one of the tribes clinging to the side of Targon. Have you not read the new lore?

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

{quoted}

Except, the Rakkor are a tribe. Pantheon got his armor from the Targonians who live on top of the mountain/other worlds. The Rakkor are simply one of the tribes clinging to the side of Targon. Have you not read the new lore?

Actually, technological level has nothing to do with it being a tribe. Neither does size, exactly. The Sioux were considered a tribe, and their total population was larger than Sparta's was, at their height. Though depending on who you ask they could be considered tribe groups.

Tribe just means: Larger than 1 family group. Can have leaders, but not complex social and political hierarchies. Though many consider this definition to be somewhat lacking considering the various Native American "tribes" did have social hierarchies that many would claim are complex. But that's an argument for another day.

Truth be told, I don't think Riot really looked up their terms, since Leona's lore shows signs of complex hierarchies among the Solari tribe (with the elders and the Ra-Horak) and since Pantheon's lore heavily implies that all Atreus does is practice weapon drill, meaning that his group was not needed for farming and hunting, which, again, implies some sort of hierarchy of people performing different jobs. Unless they follow the all men do x all women do y model, which Leona's lore also destroys, as a theory.

As to equipment, the non-Ascended Rakkor seem adept at dealing with raiders with metal equipment and even guns. So, they could either accomplish this through shear numbers (unlikely, if we go by the supremely small size and harsh environment model) or they have to also have comparable equipment. They're not going to be winning against steel with rocks. And Pantheon's lore even recognizes this, calling Pantheon's armor ancient, which while not definitive does imply that the equipment the Rakkor currently have has advanced beyond that. Which all really emphasizes how silly Pantheon has become, there is actually nothing inherently wrong with going to war in a gunpowder age in a cuirass and spear. That equipment was everywhere. Spears will be a central part of the battlefield until Napoleon. But Aurelion Sol and Pantheon's lore both comment on how out of date and ridiculous he is, and we're never given a reason for why he is as he is, so I've decided the Targonian that controls Atreus is really into historical cosplay. It's really the only option.

Talos of Altmora2 votes

If pantheon is considered ridiculous, then so is Noxus and Demacia. Given that we know these two factions still fight each other with swords and bows (and the odd crossbow/Magic user/Undying Zombie maniac) when they both have alliances with Piltover and Zaun, respectively (although that may have been changed, but I'm going with what I know now.) So they also should have Hextech guns.

The old lore justified pantheon's old stuff as ancestral weapons that were heavily enchanted (and if Riot wanted targon to be the home of a space-faring empire, the rune-weapons could be technology left over before they left, so advanced that it never lost it's capabilities. I would have thought that idea was pretty cool) Aurelion at least has the excuse of being a smug god, unless This new Pantheon really liked 300, it makes no sense that would look like that. (I can buy the fact that his godlike strength backs it up, but then why not get better stuff so he can put this strength behind something better and more damaging, does inhabiting a dead body make him dependent on that corpses abilities and equipment?)

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Talos of Altmora,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AYyE4EJo,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-21T10:46:53.179+0000)

If pantheon is considered ridiculous, then so is Noxus and Demacia. Given that we know these two factions still fight each other with swords and bows (and the odd crossbow/Magic user/Undying Zombie maniac) when they both have alliances with Piltover and Zaun, respectively (although that may have been changed, but I'm going with what I know now.) So they also should have Hextech guns.

The old lore justified pantheon's old stuff as ancestral weapons that were heavily enchanted (and if Riot wanted targon to be the home of a space-faring empire, the rune-weapons could be technology left over before they left, so advanced that it never lost it's capabilities. I would have thought that idea was pretty cool) Aurelion at least has the excuse of being a smug god, unless This new Pantheon really liked 300, it makes no sense that would look like that. (I can buy the fact that his godlike strength backs it up, but then why not get better stuff so he can put this strength behind something better and more damaging, does inhabiting a dead body make him dependent on that corpses abilities and equipment?)

I agree. And as I said there isn't anything wrong with going to war in an early gunpowder era with armor and melee weapons. After all they had centuries of overlap knights charged through early arcquebus lines with some frequency, pikes still dominated the battlefield it was a time where a great hodgepodge of weaponry was available for use.

But the two points of being called ancient equipment (not inherently wrong since as you said it could be ancient but enchanted weapons) along with Sol's commentary on how with Targon's equipment the spear is outdated just leaves a muddled picture that brings the question "So why does Pantheon look like that?" Which is even stranger when before the retcons this question didn't need to be asked. No one before commented on how strange everyone's equipment is (like Teemo for example, who is using a weapon that was never meant for anything beyond hunting small game, and would be worthless against anyone wearing armor) because it was never pointed out how odd it all was. But now it has been, I'm not sure why though.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Why are you downvoted D:

Talos of Altmora1 votes

no idea honestly. Anyways I'm glad you say it anyways.

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