Why do people think Old Xerath's lore was better?

Darnath··11 votes·2,156 views

To be honest, I'm done with hearing this. As a Xerath main who played both pre and after Xerath skillsets, as someone who has known both old and current Xerath lores, new Xerath lore is much deeper, much better written and makes him more interesting. New Xerath got suffer more than old Xerath did, he had reasons to ascend. Even though he got corrupted ideas after his Ascension, human Xerath was nothing but a grey character with extreme ambition. Old Xerath's only reason to destroy entire Shurima was ''more magical control, understanding nature of magic''. He ascended to release his mortal coil, his weakness for the love of magic. He considered magic as more valuable more than thousands of people's lifes. He may seem like less evil than current Xerath, but current Xerath at least felt guilty for what he was going to do. He killed his best friend in tear of sadness, he felt guilty but there was no turning back.

After Ascension Xerath is pretty complex though. He seems evil, and yes he is, but there are reasons for that. He still has will of man. His body is something celestial, it is beyond human comprehension, but it is not exactly correct for his mind. He is still weak as much as a human being with strong will. So, what I'm trying to say is, he lost his parents, he lost his trust on his best friend, he was trapped in a ''box'' for thousands of years. Renekton was not the only one who got insane. Then also there is his immense powers due to his Ascension, and you know what would 90% of people would do with tremendous super powers... They would turn evil, and they would think they're doing what is right.

New Xerath is more realistic, even a being from us if you think about it. He is general answer of a question that asks ''what would most of people do if they suffered and then got super magical abilities?''

He is in a unique placement in current lore now.

He is much much more interesting than ''but I wınt tu understınd netur uf megik''

He is complex character, he is evil in human standards, but he is probably doing what is right in his mind and he seems himself as grey. He even tried to relax himself because of how he is killing people with the idea of protecting Azir from people.

28 Comments

J Eevo8 votes

I for one hate the new xerath lore

We're getting sold quite a long story about his hopes, and aspirations, about the friendship between him and azir, about how he hoped for freedom, then earned the favor of azir yet was still denied to be freed. We get this drawn out tale about how he wants freedom and equality, and how he'll get it himself if he has to, showing a bit of 'no matter the cost' mentality... Then we get to the end, Azir's plan unfolds, how he waited just long enough so that he could free all of the slaves to uphold his vow... aaand Xerath goes "well fuck, now I have no reason to kill him, my objective is complete... ah, fuck it, I'm evil now, fuck y'all" It goes completely against the established story about his motives and character, and their friendship. He has no reason to resent azir anymore, and no reason to fight for the slaves since they're now freed, so he does a complete 180 and goes "Imma go destroy the world now, and everything i worked for and created because reasons".

Stars Shaper4 votes

And that's why I bring up a lot the: "What if the ritual was changed by Xerath enough to make it impossible for Azir to survive the direct hit so he HAD to do it anyway?" But Riot seems rockhard about not giving him not even a rational redeeming feature.

J Eevo2 votes

See now that would make sense, Make it so It's too late and the plan is in motion unable to stop it anymore, and he either kills him and does nothing or kills him and at least gets power.

Darnath1 votes

[{quoted}](name=J Eevo,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL9x96Gn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-10-29T14:00:38.631+0000)

I for one hate the new xerath lore

We're getting sold quite a long story about his hopes, and aspirations, about the friendship between him and azir, about how he hoped for freedom, then earned the favor of azir yet was still denied to be freed. We get this drawn out tale about how he wants freedom and equality, and how he'll get it himself if he has to, showing a bit of 'no matter the cost' mentality... Then we get to the end, Azir's plan unfolds, how he waited just long enough so that he could free all of the slaves to uphold his vow... aaand Xerath goes "well fuck, now I have no reason to kill him, my objective is complete... ah, fuck it, I'm evil now, fuck y'all" It goes completely against the established story about his motives and character, and their friendship. He has no reason to resent azir anymore, and no reason to fight for the slaves since they're now freed, so he does a complete 180 and goes "Imma go destroy the world now, and everything i worked for and created because reasons".

He loved Azir, but couldn't forgive him that easily. He also knew that he was definitely going to killed by Nasus and Renekton if they arrive to Sun Disc because he also knew they were clever enough to understand it was a distraction.

Azir gave his fredoom so late. Even while it is late, he still felt guilty to kill his friend. His love on Azir was shattered by himself, but It did not stop him from feeling guilty. He was shocked and confused at this moment, he wanted to stop. But he couldn't. Freedom is useless without life, because he was going to killed by Nasus and Renekton when they realized that he distracted them for the steal of Ascension. He gave more value to his life than Azir. To be honest, it is pretty normal for a human being who suffered a lot that was going to have his freedom, a freedom that he would never have if he stopped his plans, but inevitable death.

J Eevo3 votes

But you could see that Azir had it planned, and didn't forget it, so the only regret is "oh why didn't you tell me" which frankly is a dick move, you're getting what you wanted, yet apparently are enough of a dick that he dies for making you wait too long.

And there's no reason for him to die by the hand of Nasus and Rene if he DIDN'T INTTERUPT THE ASCENSION YET. They were supposed to be on guard specifically so nobody pulls shit like that, if they're not there BUT nothing happens, that means everything's fine.

Darnath1 votes

[{quoted}](name=J Eevo,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL9x96Gn,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2016-10-29T14:35:53.209+0000)

But you could see that Azir had it planned, and didn't forget it, so the only regret is "oh why didn't you tell me" which frankly is a dick move, you're getting what you wanted, yet apparently are enough of a dick that he dies for making you wait too long.

And there's no reason for him to die by the hand of Nasus and Rene if he DIDN'T INTTERUPT THE ASCENSION YET. They were supposed to be on guard specifically so nobody pulls shit like that, if they're not there BUT nothing happens, that means everything's fine.

Ascended have different abilities, so I'm pretty sure they were aware from what Xerath did, otherwise they would not come with sarcophagus. They knew he was going to ascend.

GreenLore2 votes

I'm pretty sure that Xerath simply couldn't stop at that point anymore.

In Renektons lore we learn that if someone is hit by the light of the sun disc and not deemed worthy,they die.

Azir wasn't chosen for the ritual,so there was likely a huge chance for him to get killed by the sun disc in which case everything that Xerath had done would go to waste(who knows how Azirs son would have handled things?)

GreenLore7 votes

Overall a lot of people don't seem to think of old Xerath as evil,simply because old xerath never tried to hurt people on purpose.

However the fact that old Xerath caused the deaths of so many people just for his own sake(he never had any noble intentions for his power,only his thirst for power) does put him pretty much on the evil side of the morality-spectrum.(In DND-terms this would put his character on the "neutral-evil"-point,as he does evil things for his own gain). Its just that he had no need to hurt anyone after he reawakened.

Auz the Ripper3 votes

Did you read old xerath's judgement? I found it much more compelling that this new lore

Placentas2 votes

Agreed. I love the part when he has just a moment of regret and doubt about killing Azir, but then he's like "Nah fuck it". It's cool seeing that shred of humanity in him and then he actively makes the decision to just annihilate everyone.

Darnath2 votes

{quoted}

Agreed. I love the part when he has just a moment of regret and doubt about killing Azir, but then he's like "Nah fuck it". It's cool seeing that shred of humanity in him and then he actively makes the decision to just annihilate everyone.

He loved Azir, but couldn't forgive him that easily. He also knew that he was definitely going to killed by Nasus and Renekton if they arrive to Sun Disc because he also knew they were clever enough to understand it was a distraction.

He wanted to stop but conditions did not allow him to do. Then he ascended and became blind by the power of magic. He is currently insane and I hope he gets at least a little redemption. I wouldn't want him in the good side though, because It wouldn't fit to his personality, but he shouldn't be necessarily evil either. He should be in the middle, not an evil overlord who gets sadistic pleasure the suffering of the innocent. Sadly, that's what he did in Bloodline.

He either has really unpredictable and unstable personality or every writer on Riot goes different with him lol.

Catastrop2 votes

I prefer current Xerath too, old Xerath was pretty much a magical experiment gone wrong cliche imo.

Stars Shaper2 votes

I too consider the new Xerath lore better written and with a more moving story. What pisses me off though it's been the transition from: careless about humanity and magic enthusiast (thus you could line with him or not and still being "neutral") to powerhungry deceptionist and undisputably evil with magic just beeing a tool he very well learnt.

I also fear that any kind of development which awaits him will be a "I was wrong all along" while his so-called empire gets destroyed by the good guys (he can't be entirely defeated because you can't really kill a character). I think that Shurima is still one of the most dangerous storylines for the Lore Team to write, expecially because it started really bad and now the community grabs the pitchforks the moment they hear "New Shurima arc".

Now, that last moment of regret... it was epic, I actually got moved by it and I could identify in it. But that also recieved a huge hit when I got to realize that it was just something driven by Xerath will. It would have been more tragic and beautiful if the ritual was yes prepared for Azir but modified in a way that only Xerath would have survived the direct hit and so Xerath really did not have other choices.

Lets now talk about the sealing, epic battle is epic, what comes out of the tomb tough it's totally unredeemable. they did a really good job with Renekton becuase they made his madness feel more real and an actual "disease" on him. Xerath though seems to be affected by it in a more deep way and even that moment of regret has disappeared like it wasn't there the first time. Now he is just a crazy powerful guy recruiting mercenaries.

I hope new arcs will improve my view of the matter because right now Xerath seems just a really powerful and manipulative lightning cloud and his past has been erased.

Darnath1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL9x96Gn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-29T13:34:39.424+0000)

I too consider the new Xerath lore better written and with a more moving story. What pisses me off though it's been the transition from: careless about humanity and magic enthusiast (thus you could line with him or not and still being "neutral") to powerhungry deceptionist and undisputably evil with magic just beeing a tool he very well learnt.

I also fear that any kind of development which awaits him will be a "I was wrong all along" while his so-called empire gets destroyed by the good guys (he can't be entirely defeated because you can't really kill a character). I think that Shurima is still one of the most dangerous storylines for the Lore Team to write, expecially because it started really bad and now the community grabs the pitchforks the moment they hear "New Shurima arc".

Now, that last moment of regret... it was epic, I actually got moved by it and I could identify in it. But that also recieved a huge hit when I got to realize that it was just something driven by Xerath will. It would have been more tragic and beautiful if the ritual was yes prepared for Azir but modified in a way that only Xerath would have survived the direct hit and so Xerath really did not have other choices.

Lets now talk about the sealing, epic battle is epic, what comes out of the tomb tough it's totally unredeemable. they did a really good job with Renekton becuase they made his madness feel more real and an actual "disease" on him. Xerath though seems to be affected by it in a more deep way and even that moment of regret has disappeared like it wasn't there the first time. Now he is just a crazy powerful guy recruiting mercenaries.

I hope new arcs will improve my view of the matter because right now Xerath seems just a really powerful and manipulative lightning cloud and his past has been erased.

They said ''we doubt he will get a redemption but his perspective will change.''

He probably will not go full ''Hey guys I was wrong entirely so forgive me to be the best friends forever'' It would totally suck, but I would want to see Xerath's deep feels. He commit unforgivable crimes anyway, he cannot get redemption.

I believe Xerath is broken inside. He is confused emotionally. He even says ''Emotions are only distractions.'' He is clearly trying to hide his emotions but he is still human minded. Wish he could feel love for his brother again rather than only hatred, rage and disgust.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Most of his quotes are remenants of his former (pre-rework) self. They didn't give him new lines except the new taunts and a new joke because they wanted it to seem like it was the old Xerath all along, some of them don't even fit anymore: "The affairs of mortals are beneth me" not so much I guess.

Xerath psyche being treathened a lot by the ascension ritual not ment for him is surely a good thing to explore and use, his form is also a mirror to it but I don't want him to be a future derelict, something that will haunt the deserts because a dog, a bird and a stone and frisbee throwing children are the good guys and because of this powerlevels will be tuned accordingly to fit the plot (Having Xerath and Aurelion Sol not being immortal by age is pure BS for me, they made it so Kindred would have a meaning for them too but again that's opinable).

Darnath1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL9x96Gn,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-10-29T14:04:39.338+0000)

Most of his quotes are remenants of his former (pre-rework) self. They didn't give him new lines except the new taunts and a new joke because they wanted it to seem like it was the old Xerath all along, some of them don't even fit anymore: "The affairs of mortals are beneth me" not so much I guess.

Xerath psyche being treathened a lot by the ascension ritual not ment for him is surely a good thing to explore and use, his form is also a mirror to it but I don't want him to be a future derelict, something that will haunt the deserts because a dog, a bird and a stone and frisbee throwing children are the good guys and because of this powerlevels will be tuned accordingly to fit the plot (Having Xerath and Aurelion Sol not being immortal by age is pure BS for me, they made it so Kindred would have a meaning for them too but again that's opinable).

I believe his quotes were planned, because not after a long time, they released new Shurima lore. Riot works on long way, they don't randomly release something, everything is in a synergy. You can see that in their teasers, splash arts etc.

I don't think they will make Xerath weaker power wise, I think they will make him even stronger, undefeatable by Azir, Nasus, Taliyah, Sivir team, but he will give up his plans on being the ruler of Runeterra and stop being a global threat.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Xerath quotes didn't change an inch from pre to post rework (except for the exposed cases) and I doubt they had plans about a Shurima event in October 5, 2011 (release of Xerath).

That ending would be one of the most desirable.

Darnath2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL9x96Gn,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-29T14:27:51.072+0000)

Xerath quotes didn't change an inch from pre to post rework (except for the exposed cases) and I doubt they had plans about a Shurima event in October 5, 2011 (release of Xerath).

That ending would be one of the most desirable.

Xerath's original quotes:

"Simple fools." "Behold my power." "Primitive magic shall not best me." "Magic? I'll show you real magic." "Flesh and blood; so fragile." "I will show you true power." "None will control me." "These chains cannot hold me." "I am eternal." "I will be their undoing." "The secrets of magic are mine alone." "I follow the path to power." "The affairs of mortals are beneath me." "It will take only a spark of my magic to end you." "Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt!"

Then they added those quotes with a random update:

"Sacrifices must be made." "I will unmake you." "Your demise beckons." "The world may crumble, but I shall remain." "Emotions are only distractions." "Bound, but not broken." "I see the forces that hold the universe together." "I am the will of man unbound by flesh." "I stand at the brink of infinity." "You cannot fathom what I am." "You may stare, but your mind may collapse." "Power, immortality, omniscience... but no leg room?!"

Then they even added those taunt quotes with Shurima Update aside with Ascension related quotes:

"Azir, at long last, we will see what power you truly possess." "You are emperor of a wasteland, Azir." "Azir, the boy destined to chase the sun." "This time, Azir, I will need no surprise to topple you." "Nasus, the loyal pup, ever nipping at my heels." "Nasus... thank you for your brother."

Lastly, they added Thresh and Syndra taunts:

"You chase power, Syndra. I am power!" "Those chains cannot hold me either, jailer."

So I'm pretty sure Xerath had additional quotes before Shurima Update too. He had 3 series of additional quotes in LoL history.

Stars Shaper2 votes

Didn't recall the exact order, but what could be Shurima related was surely added after the first random addition.

Darnath1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL9x96Gn,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-29T14:45:19.540+0000)

Didn't recall the exact order, but what could be Shurima related was surely added after the first random addition.

They fit to him though.

Stars Shaper2 votes

The result of both stories is an overwhelming powerful being in a cosmic level of power with small consideration for common beings.

GreenLore2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL9x96Gn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-29T13:34:39.424+0000)

Now, that last moment of regret... it was epic, I actually got moved by it and I could identify in it. But that also recieved a huge hit when I got to realize that it was just something driven by Xerath will. It would have been more tragic and beautiful if the ritual was yes prepared for Azir but modified in a way that only Xerath would have survived the direct hit and so Xerath really did not have other choices.

Actually I think this is exactly what happened. From what we know about the ritual I am pretty sure that if someone isn't deemed worthy by the sun,then the person gets simply killed instead of becoming an ascended. I mean when Renekton carried Nasus to the platform,he thought that the light of the sun disc would kill him,but he was deemed worthy and thus became an ascended as well.

This would also explain why the priests are usually the ones to decide who is worthy,because they have likely a better understanding of the sun disc and can determine if someone is suited for the ritual or not(or at least they are better at it than others)

If Xerath hadn't hijacked the ritual,then there would have been a high chance for Azir to be deemed unworthy and die in the light of the sun disc.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Riot was a lot criptic about it iirc.

The only think different about Xerath is that he was the most badass mage in the world (I don't think even pre-rune tattoos Ryze and his master would compare) and also his will strenght was over the top. He also turned into something that feels rather unstable and powerful, like what happens in the Cherenkov radiation which can also be just a mean to say that the Ritual was the common one but Xerath could witstand it at high cost and obtaining an unstable form.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Cause he had a lover named taliyah

Darnath1 votes

{quoted}

Cause he had a lover named taliyah

It was Tabia but whatever.

I also prefer Xerath as asexual.

GULAG 4 U2 votes

I know it was tabia. That's the point of the joke, they're both from shreema.

Darnath1 votes

{quoted}

I know it was tabia. That's the point of the joke, they're both from shreema.

Shurima but whatever. /s

:P

Big Lincoln1 votes

Xerath's new lore is ripped straight from fullmetal alchemist, so there's that

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